What do Poles owe to Germans?

Sheit, I made a thread about Russian contribution and forgot to do the same with German one.

After all, they are our most important neighbours and require even treatment.

The first thing that comes to my mind: last Sunday we went to Krakow`s Old Town for a mass service. We went to St Barbara`s Church, next to St. Mary`s Cathedral which hosts a unique wooden Gothic altar by Vit Stoss, a German artist who worked in Krakow for a dozen or more years in 15 century:



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veit_Stoss

The altar at in Kraków was not completed until 1489, and was the largest triptych of its time and, like his other large works, required a large workshop including specialized painters and gilders.[3] Other important works from his period in Poland were the tomb of Casimir IV in Wawel Cathedral, the marble tomb of Zbigniew Oleśnicki in Gniezno, and the altar of Saint Stanislaus. The Polish court was more aware of Italian styles than Nuremberg patrons of that time, and some of his Polish work uses Renaissance classical ornament.[4]

See the panorama of the altar with minutest details: mariacki.com/foto/galeria-oltarz-panorama/index.html

I daresay Poles do not owe Germans anything and the altar was very well paid for (Stoss got more money than he could ever hoped for in Germany).

Lets do a bit of a summary of what Germans did for Poles.

Genocide of Gdańsk, renaming it Danzing and claiming its a german city.
Destruction of Warsaw, the capital of Poland.
Partitions.
Murder of 5 milion polish citizens.
Murder of the better part of the polish elite.
Mass kindappings of polish children during WW2.
Destruction and theft of polish industry after WW1.
Melting down polish crown jewels.
Blowing up parts of Wawel, one of the holiest and most ancient royal sites.
Supression of polish language for 123 years after invading Poland during the partitions.
Torture, all executioners and torturers as well as methods of torture were brought from Germany in the medieval times.
Bankrupting Poland and attempted partitions by saxon monarchs.

And much much more.

What do Poles owe to Germans?

i understand that this is a polish forum, but in the future we will much more see of these 'who owes whom what' kind of threads?

maybe there are some unspoken/unmentioned things, i for my part think that this is kinda boring.

i like poles. punkt. i liked/like to be there. ende.

When I was studying the DAAD (German Academic Exchange) was very generous when it came to sending us abroad and organizing integrating programs. I owe a lot of great experiences to that institution (and to the German taxpayers).

To be fair the Germans do give Poland some EU money.

Think of it as reparations for WWII.

"What do Poles owe to Germans?"

Hundreds of years of suppression and the worst genocide of the 20th century

I think Germany would like it if Poland decides not to pay back the "debt"

Better think of Eastern Prussia, Silesia and Pomerania as reparations for WW2.

Oops, guys, all of you who posted here when I was soundly sleeping.

I must say I am NOT impressed with your contribution.

First of all, the thread is kinda historical.

That is why, can you abstain from mentioning such contemporary facts?:


Secondly, the thread is supposed to present positive things. That is why such true facts as


are politically incorrect here. :):):)

BTW, Sok, since when have you started acknowledging Polish Jews? You stinking hypocrite!

Third, the thread is about Germans and Poland. Can you talk about England and other nations somewhere else? :):):)


Last, but not least, personal opinions which don`t have much historical value for the thread are also unnecessary. :):):)


I hope it is not too difficult to remember:

So, again:

Germans.

Positive.

History of Poland.

Do you think you are able to bear it in mind? I like working with intelligent people.

If you have nothing valuable to contribute, can you just read and learn from the thread?

Well, I hope you will come back to topic now.

Thanks in advance.

:):):):):):):)

Here is an example.

Coming back to Krakow again.

In one of his posts Palivec mentioned some Polish words which are derived from German: ratusz, burmistrz. etc etc. Town hall, mayor, etc.

Why?

Many Polish medieval towns adopted the so called Magdeburg Law for their settlement, development and ruling.


Krakow is a perfect example:


worldlibrary.org/articles/german_town_law

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_town_law

Together with German Town Law, German colonists/immigrants came and settled in Poland, welcomed by local rulers. Also, in Krakow.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostsiedlung#Poland

`sex` in political sense

positives?
ok catolic church and "baptism of nation" came from germany
wich also is a reason why Poles are using normal alphabet not cyrylica/bukwy
and German leader (Otto 3?) coronated first polish official prince, those makeing Poland an official state

and from recent history: polish thrash metal ows some to teutonic thrash

from one point of view I am happy Polish uses roman letters.
but from another view if it was cryllic then less people would infiltrate our language :D

The problem is that Germans did not give Poland anything, what they brought to Poland was y'know bought by Poles, with good money too so its hard to write about positives as from this point of view there were none.

It's possible Poles owes them a few Mercedes cars ...

Don`t be silly. And so obsessed with money. If not Vit Stwosz, the German, Poles would never have acquired such an altar, no matter how much they would pay to Czech or Italian sculpters. As simple as that, if not him in Poland, no masterpiece altar for Poles.

Hmm....experience of a different culture on their own doorstep was nice so appreciation for that. Linguistic awareness came from that. I'm thinking of Ozimek and the Opole region. Owe is not the right word, tho

Yes they would, they'd just hire an Italian to do it, Vit got lucky since it wa mostly italians who got commisions.


Italians had at the time a much better record of sculptures, i dont see a problem in hiring one to do a better work.

So no we dont "owe" the altar to the Germans.

Despite popular beliefs, Poland didn`t owe its baptism and christianity to Germans. Quite the opposite, Mieszko I, the first ruler of Poland, adopted the christianity in 966 to protect his land from German expansion which used the pretext of conversion of pagan Slavic tribes.

So, when Germans created the diocese in Magdeburg in 968 with a view to take Slavic lands under its influence, it was too late as Mieszko, with his baptism, established the direct connection with Rome`s pope, not a German bishop.

Mieszko married Czech princess Dobrawa (already baptised) in 965 so we can say that Poles owe christianity to Czechs.

However, it can be true that the ceremony of baptism took place not in Gniezno (Poland) but somewhere in Germany (Ratyzbona) or even Rome.

sciaga.pl/tekst/29421-30-stosunki_polsko_niemieckie_w_okresie_wczesnopiastowskim

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_of_Poland

Unlikely, Mieszko could not leave his country for a longer period of time, Poland was still being formed.

Rubbish. Check sources.

In early 966 Mieszko travelled to Czechia to visit his father in law, Czech ruler, prince Bolesław and prolong their alliance against pagan tribes that troubled Mieszko at the time. And that`s a fact.

And some historians believe that from there, they went together to Ratyzbona to have Mieszko baptised by the local bishop.

Czechy aint Vatican also how long did he stay there?

What Stoss made was a late Gothic altar. In Italy however Gothic wasn't en vogue anymore at that time. So Pawian is right. If not Vit Stwosz, the German, Poles would never have acquired *such an altar*.

Sorry nope, if they got paid they would built it, what Stoss did while an art-work could have been done by someone else and if need be would have been done by someone else, he was just at hand.

Also as i pointed out he got paid very handsomely so its hardy a debt.

The very notion of Poles "owing" anything to Germans because a German carved an alterpiece and some Polish cities were organized around a "German" legal model is ridiculous. The sculptor was paid for his service and the Romans taught the Germans about civic organization.

Amazing isnt it? And Germans are utterly convinced they brought civilisation to Poland (by destroying it?)

Poles owe to Germans the german cities like Wroclaw,Stettin etc which the Germans generously handed to them by gallancy.Also the castle of Marienburg where the Grand Master of teutonic horde a true friend of Poland resided.

Southern, is it Breslau or Wrocław now? Is it Stettin or Szczecin now?

In Germany they are still called Breslau,Krakau,Posen,Stettin in all signs.

And I'm sure all manner of other countries have their own names for those cities too. What's your point?

That in their chauvinism Germans see all the afformentioned cities as theirs, often enough completely baselessly.

All it takes is for you to read our resident german BB, his posts basically amounted to "We brought you civilisation!!!11111111" and he was completely deaf when someone pointed to him that Poles built their own sophisticated culture and the only influence Germans had was attempting to destroy it for the past 1000 years.

southern:
and red army has nothing to do with Germans generosity?

pawian:
my mistake about baptism, I forgot about it.

have their ever paid for destroying Warsaw ?