What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others?

He is conservative, I don't think that he would like to be linked to neocons whom run Republican Party currently. I read one of his books, "Where the right went wrong", anti-neocon publication.

what is your point?

Neither bothered showing up? The communist government didn't. That is a fact.

The Government in Exile received an invite at the eleventh hour when it was apparent the commo govt wouldnt attend. It was, naturally, politely declined.

What self respecting invitee would accept a second thought last minute invite? One can only speculate as to the value GB/the allies placed on Poland's contributions to the war effort in these circumstances.

I recall you mentioning some Poles did attend. That was in their capacity as integrated member of the GB armed forces.

That context takes the gloss of your spin, doesn't it.

It's strange how your ilk deign to argue the finer points of an invitation if it gives the opportunity to try to cast a bad light on Poland. Keep it coming though - I enjoy the sport.

Remember the lesson given on fact vs opinion in a previous topic? I suggest you revisit. You again gave an opinion couched as a fact. In fact, you've given many opinions. In my opinion, some of the facts you have given have been bare facts, denied of context. As a wordsmith, you'd know it's disingenuous to assert facts without setting out the context.

In your circumstances however I'd suggest it seems malice drives your posts. Anyone with your powers of research would clearly be aware of the context. If you don't account for it, one can only speculate why.

Now, back to the topic. Have you got any examples on it? I would've thought you would have bombarded us with Wiki sourced earthshakers.

is there a point to this?

In what sense?

Obviously if you're not of Polish extraction or have an interest in this type of topic then no.

Objectively, you should reread the question I posted at the beginning of the thread for the 'point'.

given that you are talking of ww2 then how was poland fighting for others? it seems to me that you like to have a dig at the british.

Are you familiar with Polish history at this time? If not, I'd prefer you to make up your own mind after some independent research rather than me telling you.

Perhaps do a google search on this question. Look up "Anders army". It should be interesting and on point with your question. Also look up Polish 303 Squadron - very interesting.

Try reading books on Poland by Norman Davies too.



I'm an Aussie (Polish dad though, and I identify very strongly with my Polish heritage) - of course I love having a dig at the Poms. Aussies know how to get under their skin.

im quite familiar with ww2, but find it pointless to argue the politics from that time.aussies and humour-two words that dont go :-)

Point being the question has been brought up a number of times in this question.



Stalin's military attacked Poland in the East in Sept. 1939.

Then you will no doubt be aware of the Polish contribution.



Fair enough. You'll find a lot of that here, so you'll probably have to turn a blind eye.



I think you mean "Aussies and warm beer", or, more relevantly, "Poms and dental hygiene" or "Poms and sporting prowess". Where do I stop.

That would be really fantastic if it were the truth.

One question though: Allies won, didn't they? So how come Poland end up being not sovereign at all? What went wrong? Just wondering ...



Hmmm…. and you are saying it isn't? LOL

It’s just another example of this one way system displayed by some Englishmen - they can joke about other nations, look down on them, insult them, etc. but are not ready to bear with the same from the the foreigners…. criticism seems to be too much already.

Britons have it in their nature to patronize and intimidate others, even (if not mainly) through their jokes. Yes, it is a generalization but proved by behaviour of so many people that it is hard to totally dismiss it, I’m afraid.

I do wish you would stop with your lies. The RAF raids of September 4 1939 against Wilhemshaven are as secret as they were successful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelmshaven

But then why should we be surprised to see Poles lying about WWII and what the British did and did not do?



And your source for this is what? All the sources I’ve read and quoted from agree that the official government was invited first and after uproar caused by not inviting free Poles, representatives of the free Poles were invited. Until the day of the parade nobody knew for sure that the official government wasn’t sending anybody.



Well, let’s see, how many other free forces were invited? Oh yes, none were.
And what self respecting invitee would attend? Far better to refuse the invite and then spend the next 60+ years lying about not being invited.


You are mistaking me with somebody else.
And no it doesn’t take any ‘gloss’ off what I’m saying. My point is that the oft told tale about Poles not being invited to the London parade is a lie.


Read your own thread mate. A Pole started the discussion of the parade and did so in an attempt to put the British in a bad light. I merely pointed out that he is lying. I’m not making any fine points (unlike a certain somebody who attempts to using the alleged timing of invitation as justification for it being refused), I’m simply stating that both free Poles and the official government of Poland were invited to the parade and neither bothered to turn up.


Facts are fact. Both free and not-so-free Poles were invited to the London parade. The RAF dropped bombs before it dropped leaflets. The British tried to support the Warsaw Uprising but the Americans considered such support not “advantageous for the long-term prospects” of the war. Some Poles were and some are anti-semitic. These are facts. Of course they are facts that some Poles would prefer not to be facts but they are still facts.


Remind me, when was the hunting of Aborigines for sport made illegal in your fine nation?

BTW: "Poms and sporting prowess". is not two words that don't go together, it is three words. Nice counting skills there mate. Oh, and congratulations to you Ozzies for overtaking the Septics and becoming the fattest nation on the planet.

Better than the Aussies if you look at the Olympics, and football, and the last 2 Rugby World Cups. And we're not a nation that even sees sport as our only means of national pride, unlike some cultural wastelands that I could mention.


It does seem however that Harry is being attacked for daring to question the whole mythology that some Poles have chosen to surround themselves with. He's raised good points that no one has really been able to counter without either getting insulting or giving some pretty woolly answers.
The situation is reminiscent of the accusations that many on here have leveled against Jews e.g. falsely claiming a unique victim status, crying about how other nations should have dropped everything and saved them, a failure to accept that maybe other nations had other priorities at the time.

Can you tell me what the British tried during the "Warsaw Uprising"? Listen to the voices of the ones that were there.

This one speaks of who was in the parade, "Moscow Poles".

The title of this thread should have the word Poland replaced with Britain. I think it would then be at least minimally accurate.

At least Britain was not taken over. Britain still had independence. Is this not what all were fighting for?

Nail on head.

We were your allies, yes, you should have dropped eveything and helped save Poland. Just as Polish had done for you. "For your Freedom and Ours".

Very funny. I won't take the bait this time but keep trying.

Have you heard of Hells Kitchen?

Well imagine the UK as Gordon Ramsey who is in the kitchen with all these annoying insignificant little fuks who think they know what theyre doing but actually havent got a fukin clue.

Gordon gets pretty tired of telling them where they are going wrong. They might get there eventually, but in the meantime, as Gordon shows us, you have to tell them just what incompetent little fuks they are in order to slap them in to shape

Poland is one of those annoying insignificant little fuks. One that still thinks it knows best.

Fukin twats. As Gordon would say

Just click the link I've provided in this thread which takes you to the website of the Museum of the Warsaw Uprising. There you can find information about the British attempts to supply the Uprising.


When did Poland ever fight to save Britain before Britain fought to protect Polish independence?

Now how's this for a silly question? Do you think Polish were fighting and dying for ha ha's. Please give credit where credit is due.

absolutely-along with lots of other nations.
this my friend is were you are wrong. lager as you call beer is served cold. beer as in ale is not.

Actually I would like to see the evidence for that because I frankly don't believe that.

12 percent of which Luftwaffe planes? In which time frame? When??? Where???
I doubt the quotes...
As far as I know the Luftwaffe had always a good quota during the war, even till near the end...but never one as high as much 1:6, that's ridiculous!!!

Very impressive! It's just a shame you couldn't defend your own borders. You're worse than the French.



The level of English is probably a good indication of the quality of the source.

Carol if you actually bothered to read questions and then give an appropriate answer, people might have a little more respect for you

Until you can come to an understanding of how childish and selfish that sounds you will never have any 'closure' on this matter.

Poland never went to war for Britain, Britain did go to war for Poland however. Maybe we didnt go to war in the style and manner which suited Poland but hey, we had a couple of other things on our plate at the time. We won in the end, the Nazis were defeated and 'most' of Europe was free again. Poland was in the 'not so free' bit but at least you werent all being rounded up and lead to gas chambers or being shot en masse in the streets or being forced to live on starvation rations as you were pre-1946.

They did not achieve 126 kills. That is what they claimed. Even Polish historians now say that the true number of kills was actually less than half the claimed number. The number of total verified kills was 44. Which makes 303 the 4th best squadron (although it was the best squadron which flew Hurricanes).
Funny how your article doesn't mention that the top pilot in 303 was Josef František. Not a Polish name but then he wasn't Polish.


I think that they were fighting for Poland.
However, you claimed that Poland fought for Britain before Britain fought for Poland. I asked you to tell me when Poland fought for Britain before 3 September 1939. When was it?

[
Question being? I gave you many examples of Polish fighting for others. Do you need a few more?



I will write to the onme that posted and get the info for you.

You really are a joke Carol

Can you show me this quote? Prior to 3 Sept. 1939, why would Poland be fighting? Maybe you are confusing this with 1920 when Polish saved Europe from Soviets and gainned her independence. :)

He was a great historian was that youtube. Anyway, I believe the question was:



Please answer.

Show me where I made this claim?



If Poland never went to war for Britain then who was that Polish beside you?

What did you have on your plate that would be more important than keeping your word to the ones you told, "we'll be there"?

I guess you never saw the death toll on Non Jewish? Yes we were being killed and lived in inhumane conditions. Some felt a gas chamber would have been more humane that freezing, starving, slaving and watching each other die a slow death. In the end losing our country that we fought to save.

Non Communist continued to live under the conditions you decribe. Food in "Stalin's Communist Poland" was for the ones that were Moscow Poles.

You haven't given a single example of Poland fighting for Britain before 3 September 1939. You have only given examples of Poles fighting after that date (and even then fighting against the nation which occupied their state).

You said that So now tell me when Poland dropped eveything and helped save Britain before Britain declared war on Germany.



Alternatively you can just go here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/303_squadron
and read this:

I was referring to this:



Except the hadn't. Had they?

Carol's trying to be Polish. Today she's practising a classic Polish debating technique: when losing a debate just start lying; if you can make your lies offensive lies, so much the better.

No lies here, history has the facts my friend.

Where do you see a date? You took the quote from under,

Stop putting words on my reply's.

Thanks, Carol SKI

Your exact words were:
Please note the use of the past perfect. "Had done". The past perfect is used to talk about actions which take place sometime before a defined point in the past. In this case the defined point in the past is 3 September 1939: when Britain started to fight to protect Polish independence.

So when had Poland fought to save Britain?



You mean like your facts about how Poles weren't invited to the victory parade and how FDR wanted to resupply the Warsaw Uprising but Churchill stopped him and how a Polish squadron was the best squadron in the Battle of Britain?

Carol, those are not facts, they are just lies.

Want to count this?

No. The Soviet army was a joke at that time and no threat at all to Britain. And Poland was then fighting for no country other than Poland.