Will Poland become like the UK ?

Dont be :) I prefer someone who is open than someone who doesnt speak their mind though thinking these things.

you talking about other country for me this is not spain
many businessman are intersted in ilegals workers!!!........may be criminals but not businessman

Espana look,

Hard workers and in foture good members of society from East European countries can arrive only if the are admitted to work in respectable companies that pay taxes, give money to pension and medical fund and also have obligations according to labour legislation. Such people are ready to receive much less than Spanish citizens but they want their work is secure.
For now only prostitutes and some people looking for adventures can leave for Spain. In Russia for example hunger threat doesn't exist now and a respectable worker won't look for adventures abroad.
That's the reason why Espana has an image of smth like Latin America in 16 century, i.e. place for adventures.

It's well known that one cannot make a secret he has underground workers from local public servants. Why don't they notice? Why such businessmen aren't punished? Because first the corruption and second Spain doesn't still has an approach to immigration policy. On the one hand people are frightened by ilegals. On the other economy requires a rightless worker. Why There are so many ilegals from abroad EU while many people from Romania and Bulgaria a looking for job? Because these people have rights and can work legally and ilegals are more profitable

It seems to be the same thing. Sometimes.
Well give another explanation of challenges mentioned above

Espana, is talking about the masses of Africans, Somalis and asians in the UK, they have upwards of 4 children because they claim bennefits whilst people like espana don't feel he can aford to have a family just yet, because he is busy paying his mortgage and tax and NI and pension and god knows what else - life in the UK isnt cheap if you work hard, so you will have to excuse him if he is a little bit angry at the fact some people come here - do fek all and manage to find the money to cloth and feed 4 / 5 kids!

I understand these emotions. I could be also indignated. Although it seemd to me that such standarts for foreigners are sometimes quite ilogocal also for native people. I don't think anybody should be payed for children, and as to social policy in EU in general, its provisions concerning the native residents also don't contribute to those who work more and more active.
The point is that methods how to separate a util part of imigrants are required. Not only desires.

But I'm trying to explain him that immigration system and its deficiencies are favourable only for such kind of imigrants

Espana my friend , imean the goverments must all fight to keep their countries clean from ilegals even if that means to move Poles from UK back to Poland only if they are not giving something back to the UK, i dont mind people living legally and working hard but all the bumms and scum must be sent home ASAP.

not always i m an imigrant too but i feel very sorry for the english sometimes ,one thing is be generous but not an idiot

The Polish have no choice but to work, they are not allowed to claim anything for 16 months (not that the vast majority would want to), so I dont really see your above comments being related to what espana has said, his problem is not with Poles but with people from 3rd world countries coming and screwing the system in the UK. But with all the bleeding heart libberals out there the man on the street doesnt stand a chance.

and the english should be very proud of england

Well the fact is that now that Poland and so many EU countries are in th EU , they can live in the UK and where ever they like so they nomore ilegal. All im against is ilegals living in many countries for example warsaw and its poor ugly bus station made ugly by the foreigners.

The same thing:
You are talking of what but nothing about HOW
Well, some facts - you are offered to oppose:
1. Ilegal doesn't mean underground and secret. Local public servants if they know nothing about him that only means the don't want to know that. Sometimes thay say it is difficult and expensive to depart ilegals but no proposals of admitting in EU only people who have deposited money for their possible departure and who presented their fingerprints. No ideas of the sort despite its evident efficency. But the EU supports hard and expensive work with visas.
2. Ilegal imigration should be a crime. If anybody penetrates ilegally he should be sentenced to prison. If he tells his name and his relatives collect money for departure, well he becomes free earlier.
Why it is not so?

Espana i think you have every right to be in the UK, and am glad you are. I am also very pleased you like it here and have integrated so well..

well may be you should come to work here truhlei.....may be the things will be better ...
i hope so

I dont really think that the English see the Spanish as immigrants, and I agree with what D said :)

dont be nice to me ........tomorrow will be the war (hamilton , alonso)

But that's something completely different Espana, i can differentiate between sport and reality.. if my niceness grates you deal with it.. i speak with sincerity... ;-)

I wish I lived in Russia the rest of my life. See slavs usually spend some years abroad but then they have a desire to return. Many Poles also return home.
But as to ilegals in general, I have never heard Spanish government as well as other EU governments have a clear concept of imigration policy.
I seems to me sometimes that only Swiss state has sometimes an adecuate approach to foreigners as well as a good local and in mani cases volunteer controle over imigrants. But it is not a EU country

one of the thing i hate most is that i was'nt like that before ,
did i become a rasict?
hope not

I want to visit Espana because I can speak Spanis and love your Motherland. I want to visit other EU countries. As tourist of course or as visitor of my friends.
I'm ready to make a deposit for a possible deportation and to give mi fingerprint and other necessari biometrical dates. But I don't want to ask for visa every time I come in EU and suffer quite a himillating presedure in embassies that are looking for ilegals all over the world.
Besides that I'm indignated by such procedure of receiving a visa to go by car from Russia to Russia (case of Kaliningrad region, East Prussia) throught Lithuania. Such difficulties were inpossible for West Europeans even during the existence of West Berlin and communist East Germany.

Of course not. Yur aren't against people of other ethnies. As to differences between citizens and foreigners, some discrimination is not only possible but sometimes even necessary (Right to Elect parlament for example).

good luck to you , espero que te lo pases bien
a mi tambien me gustaria visitar , algun dia russia

Russia is a very interesting country. After many years of communism and 10 years of liberast (not liberal one) rule it becomes every day more bonita

Nope just less tolerant.

I'm sure each state should admit only the tolerance it is able to defend strongly.
Imagive that rasist ideas becomes too popular in the down classes of the society? What shall you do? Persuade the people sure that everithing in the country belongs to them only (the main idea of today social policy)?
Make police start a rasist hunt. But it is quite uneasy to the policemen arrest rasists when they can't cope with ilegals. Besides that the families of the policemen who have successes in rasist persecution may become known via Internet and their children at schools may be persecuted by their classmates. Nobody will risk his children.
You think rasists can be sent to prisons if some millions of such people appear (a realistic prospect in some circumstances)? Are there enough prisons. Do you think it is possible to depart rasists from their native countries as sometimes ilegals are departed?
For today European states cannot resist a rasist blow. So the only way is not to give reasons for agravation. The politics is the art of possible

I only said that people are less tolerent and this has nothing to do with class, at least not in this country.

Also as for all this secret police stuff and deporting nationals, England is quite different from Russia so I dont think a lot of what you say applies to us.

I didn't mention any secret stuff. As do deporting nationals from Russia, do you know figures.
I am discussing only social psycology and the threat os a wide rasism among some down classers in Europe. Yes the same thing exists in Russia, but I'm sure human natire, assets and deficiencies are the same all over the world.
In Russia the xenofoby is supporter by poor people. They know they cannot be punished for that. It is very difficult to proove the guilt in Trial and as to rasist reputation it means nothing for those who don't make career or have business.
People don't feel themselves criminals because they know that for example the USA south states had in the 40 the same problems with afroamericans and mexicans despite they had cottages and more cars per capita than today Russia.
As to psycology of impunivity and "freedom" of rasist expression for people downstairs, who don't make career or business and don't depend upon high and middle class public opinion, that may seem attractive to many lumpens all over the world. Russia isn't a lonely country in that.

sorry I dont understand what they are

Sorry, I thougt that word exists in English. That is an ancient latin term. It was used in Roman Empire to define poor people who didn't work hard and survived using their status of Roman citizens and social assistance. Despite that dependence upon the society they were quite revolutionary people and it was quite easy to inspire a rebel among them. In Russian this term is widely used. I thought it is also used in English.