Poland 2007 Elections: PO Won, PIS second

I would agrue with that. It is said for PO voted mostly "young and educated" people. But "young" is not "wise" at the same time. Wise comes with experience, not education.

I predict soon there will appear articles in the media entitled like "Tusk, you deceived us. I won't come back to Poland to work for 500 Euros a month."

And the saddest thing out of it will show the lowest election participation on the next elections - people will be so disappointed that it's not possible to do "the next Ireland" overnight that they will ignore the next elections for many years to come.

its safe to say that they are a little "out of touch" with the current reality...Polish Americans think that schoolgirls in Poland still curtsey when meeting strangers and that Pewex shops are still in business....?

true that. u got a point there.

unfortunately people are impatient animals who want it quick and easy...

It offered a hope for Poland that they would want to come back to in the future. Polonia from the UK cannot be compared to Polonia from the US - because Poles from UK may be home onece a month or twice a week and they actually feel close to home.

Radical changing of something that was started 2 years ago by PIS is like changing a president every 2 years - can you imagine that? It only creates chaos and nothing can be completed. Not to mention political fights about which party did what and when are the results etc.

In my opinion Polish /Americans have been away from the homeland longer than Polish/Brits.
Therefore, they might include some of the older generation who are stuck in the past. Or are so far away that they have lost sight of the Polish reality.
If I am right. Many of those Polish/Americans will never come back to Poland, yet they have the right to vote on my children's future.
If I had my way anyone who has been out of the country for more than four or five years should lose the right to vote.

;(
I usually vote in the country I live in, if that's what you mean. So, if I live in Poland, I vote in Poland etc....

I don't have a problem with expats who vote in elections, if they are coming back in the near future. I just don't want people to vote, if they have been away for a certain ammount of time or are not coming back at all.

You contradict yourself and miss the point. I don't think Poles who actually are not going to come back to Poland even care to vote - do you think they would take their time to register, stay in lines and lose a weekend day to do that for the sake of doing that? No - only those who HOPE to come back to Poland (now on on their retirement) voted. And their votes are in the hopes for a better Poland for them and their children too.

I made the point because I was hoping someone would clarify for me how Polish/Americans vote.
Now that you have helped me to understand better. I would like to take up this point.



These are the people who are voting on a future, based on their distant past. That is why 80% might have voted for PiS and not PO.

So it is now said that it was the Tusk-Kaczynski debates that actually let win PO. Before the debates most (if not all) polls showed PIS win.

If two TV shows are enough for people to change their mind, living in the country to be allowed to vote isn't a good argumentation. Especially the shows were available live on the Internet or on sat TV.

there is a possibility, but remember we have only had command economies, communist govts.... now we have free market fdi is at its all high trade with practically all nations from us, brazil to pakistan... wages will increase.. there is qulaity in poland and we will see it in practise now with lech and tusk

You mean in Poland ?

I have serious problems with polls. But I do take your point.

Are you having a laugh?

Christianity has nothing at all to do with politics, and the catholic church is 600 years out of date,
Useful in communism - but the church have tried hard with their interfering ways to make normal people hate them with a passion.

My post refers to the above by the way LOL. I guess you were on a wind up - congratulations. I fell for it :)

These elections in Poland showed one thing - the Polish society is still far from being a wise society. Polish voters are still too easily manipulated by the media and populistic slogans. Instead of the conent, they still buy the package.

Compared these Polish elections to the last US presidential elections one can see what I mean. Even though most Americans (including Republicans) thought going to war in Iraq was a crucial mistake, they still voted for Bush re-election. They did so because they knew it was still a better and less-costly choice to allow him to complete this mission than to stop it and let the billions of dollars go down the drain. The American society understood that once the foundations of the house (a big mission) has been built, the most reasonable way is to complete the job, not to withdraw. Poles decided to throw the baby out with water without looking at possible consequences.

Now the PO officials will look around to set up best cozy positions, will do their private deals, and start building their small foundations while they can and the old, important jobs are still not completed. Millions of tax-payers Zlotys will be wasted again.

And I am happy for them to use my not inconsiderable tax. They will use it to relieve my tax burden. At the moment some of my staff buy new cars while I couldn't possibly replace my 10 year old banger. I am too busy on all the stupid bureacracy - or working for the state to pay ZUS when I am too busty to work for the state and am contributing in other ways through being an employer.

And what old important jobs do you refer to?

Can't agree. I have contributed hundreds of thousands of Zlotys to the Polish exchequer and I don't have the vote.
And before anybody starts, I live here and love the country and people have have no wish to take citizenship. That is an American nationalist idea and proves nothing.
I am British and I voye there. Poles should also have the right to self determination, no matter where they are in the world

I am new as of yesterday Hello but you do talk some absolute ******** I have to say. The huge majority of people cannot afford to fly home on a whim as you would have it - unless they are doctors or dentists of course.
You are painting a picture of Britain as a utopia. Have you ever slept on the street? Stop giving people the wrong idea!

BTW - I am a teacher. I happen to know a far number of gay teachers as it happens. Every single one of them is every bit as dedicated and good at their jobs as their "normal" counterparts, and generally more so.
The Kaczynskis were the laughing stock and the real point is that the ousted one obviously hated gays for a reason.....
Quite abnormal and the poor chap needs to get off to America for psychiatric help.

True. My Polish flatmate gets one trip back a year.

To stay on topic, he claims to have absolutely no interest in the election results.
I was more interested than he was and I'm not even Polish. I just care about the whole world.
Having said that, he's not a fan of the twins.

Speaking to two Polish girls and a Polish woman today, and they didn't even know the results. One looked slightly interested for a moment, then said it didn't really matter, they were 'all the same' to her.



Saint.

Disgraceful - they should be reminded of their families' sacrifices since the war - unless they were party members of course :((

As I checked two-way flight from London to Warsaw is 100 pounds. Two-way flight from Chicago to Warsaw is 400 pounds (and Poles in the US on avarage make less per hour than in the UK).

===

The point is clear. Here are the groups of people in Poland who will find their lives better after PO win:

1. Business people and companies (that will supposedly take less time for bureaucracy when setting up a company).

2. Foreigners living in Poland - less bureaucracy to arrange their matters. More respect and consideration for EU laws, easier and quicker way of doing business for them.

What about the rest (80% of the Polish society)? The fact they will stay less in lines to arrange an official matter in Poland will not get them better or more-paid jobs.

I know young and educated people are usually very optimistic and if you ask them, most of them would tell you they want to be entrepreneurs and have their own companies. But where is the reality? Out of 1000 people one will have a successful company; the others either will fail or will prefer to work for 500 Euros a month. But the majority of those who were optimistic enough to claim they will have their own companies... will end up immigrating to the UK (or stay there) to work for better money as a contractor or cleaner. That's the fact and I see how these young and optimistic people may feel sorry in the future.

I agree that Polish salaries are a scandal - but that is what the market will stand. I asked a "friend" a few years ago why he didn't pay production staff the minimum wage and he said he would, but as they would happily work for less, his directors wouldn't let him pay more than he needed to.

Appalling, and people are only just rightly realising the value of their worth.

Also cant fly home on a whim because of work commitments and they have to rota holiday time that is not just beneficial to them but to the companies and other work colleagues - cant just fly to Poland in one day and back again for shift Mondays




Oh if only it was .... lol

She is about right on this. They don't deserve a vote.



Ask politicians why they grab about 70% of our wages every each month.



PO is just a myth that will be exposed soon (again). But your defense of PiS has no sense, they are bunch of ignorants with no clue how to run the country. They steal less than PO but they cause a lot of opportunities to corruption to other people because of their incompetence.

Exact.
There is one main paper telling them all how to think, how to vote, what to read, what to buy ... may also how to f**** .

So they do.

Make your minds up you guys. Is it the newspapers. Radio Maryja or the debates.

Or was it a judgement based on actually living here in the past few years.

oh yes and in the uk and usa we vote for packagless politicians...

Media outlets indeed have enormous influence on the results of democratic elections. Please note that except of PSL (a specific, archaic farmer party) all those who reached parliament were backed by some mainstream media.

This is true that for example TVN did attacked PiS before even they really started to govern. Ugly TV program called "Szklo Kontaktowe" is a prime example of anti-PiS propaganda. This is pathetic when I see mostly pretty stupid people (I mean TV viewers who call to this program) laughing at the stupidity of PiS and their voters.

However PiS hijacked shamelessly public media, put their own people on all the posts and they did their job marginalizing other parties. Affair with program "FORUM" and Joanna Lichocka (everything is on You Tube) speaks for itself. Still I'm 99% sure that PO will soon replace PiS propagandists on their own. One could only dream about this "liberal" party privatize such cake like public media! (especially without swindles)

My conclusion is that those who are not backed by some mainstream media has no chance and often voters are not aware that they exist at all.