Poland 2007 Elections: PO Won, PIS second

Many former members among them. :)

And so what ?...

Criminals are sometimes very pragmatic :)

LoL people in prison are not all criminals...there are real dangerous guys, and small thieves... ;) LoL
And what about old people blinded by Radio Maryja " (and vote PiS) ?...

I hate to say but this isn't evidence that "they" all want democracy.

true, there are people in jail who are guilty of nothing more than smoking a joint..

outragous behaviour

They are honest people, I have nothing against them. Comparing them and criminals is even worse than comparing homosexuals and pedophiles.




The real Russian problem is not because something that they don't want, I mean "democracy " but because something they do want, 'authoritarian socialism'. But still this is rather their problem than our.


Few post more and we will learn that they are all in fact innocent political prisoners of Kaczynski regime :))

Probably...LOL

misquote

do you realy wnat to start this discussion, so maybe start it in open way.

well, some of you are trying very hard to prove that only "bad" people voted for PO and you tell some fairytales about how bad PO is..... if you dont live in this country and say that PiS should have won, then no comments:/

This should be the Picture of the Year. This is how most politicians (not only in Poland) end their careers. There will be a similar picture on the next elections. It would look great as oil painting too :).

yes, but Lech Kaczyński will be in the place of Lepper:)

yes, indeed

So ?... ;)

Although I don't support PiS or claim that all PO voters are "bad", I do live in Poland and I dare to say that PO is just a mystification, bunch of opportunists without any higher ideals. Hopefully this opinion deserve your comment, this is a discussion board after all. :)

As I have wrote yesterday, PO already denied speculations that they want privatize public media. Four years of PO propaganda for our money, great!

i too am a firm believer of giving credit where credit is due

Can someone tell me I correctly understand the parties in Poland.

Am I right in thinking that the PO are similar to the UK's New Labour and the PiS are like the Tories?

Also are LiD similar to the Liberal Democrats, PSL similar to Respect, LPR similar to the BNP?

Did the NOP contest the election?

kind of.. but the poles arent as flexible as your parties and change their manifesto like the british weather!

I try to understand politics...
It's a really hard thing to understand. Also, I find myself becoming cynical about the political parties. In local politics (here in the USA) there is a lot of corruption. For example. City commisioners decide to build a new school. So one of the commisioner's family members will buy land from a farmer for $300 per acer. Then the city buys the same land from the 'new owner' for $3000 per acer. That's our tax money at work, lining the pockets of bankers and wealthy business owners.
But what is the alternative? Religious fanatics, Communists, Dictatorships, Nope....I'll take corrupt free market over all the other forms of government. We don't live in an ideal world of numbers and perfect shapes.
My understanding of Polish politics is severly limited, but it seems like things have been worse than they are now, and that your people expect things to get better. When I travel around the country by train, I see HUGE agricultural potential in Poland. I hope that as the land modernizes, the people benifit, rather than corperate states. In the USA, I feel like the working people stress, and struggle, while the rich and poor benifit from our labors. Like I said, maybe it's just cynical thinking.....
Good luck!
-Ramsey

LiD claims to be socialistic but in fact they have no political orientation. Group of opportunists, their only goal is to be professional politicians as long as possible. PSL cares about peasants only and collect voters among them. I'm not sure but I think BNP is socialistic and rather atheistic. LPR just recently started to express some economic liberalism, before they were known as populist socialists. Both BNP and LPR are anti-EU, the latter is conservative in Catholic sense.



Both mayor parties, I mean PO and PiS agreed for early elections in that way (to exclude competition of smaller parties) that all elections committees that wanted to start needed to collect a lot of signatures during very short period of time (10 days). Normally they would have I think a bit more than one month. This caused that only seven election committees managed to register. Some smaller parties like UPR or PR joined LPR list because this was the only way to participate in these elections. NOP failed to register alone and with their reputation (quite aggressive in rhetoric) this is impossible to join some bigger party lists. However they have very small support and absolutely no chances to enter parliament.

Your description of LiD could easily be applied to most British MP's and all MEP's!



Basically old fashioned Communists under a new name then.



I think the Socialists would disagree with that as they hate the BNP and consider them to be 'extreme right wing'. Though looking through their policies there is a mix of Socialism and Conservatism.

Certainly not atheistic though, very anti Muslim and into 'Defending Christian Values' while remaining secular.



Do you think the election result would have been different if smaller parties had more time to register?

How many signatures are needed? In the UK you only need 10 signatures per candidate and then pay a £500 deposit (which you get back if the candidate gains 5% or more of the vote).

Same here but especially LiD and Samoobrona.



Befre WWII PSL was a real mainstream party, later was hijacked by communist regime and renamed to ZSL. This is how they pretended that we have multi-party system. So current PSL origin in this communist one. They are socialistic and full of happiness because Common Agriculture Policy of the EU. However on moral issues they have conservative stance, probably because this is stand of most of their voters.



Well, I see the world how it is and not how the socialists would wish us to see it! :) According to leftist propagandists Hitler was also extreme right despite being member of National Socialist Party!




What is their stance on issues like abortion, homo-marriages/adoption? I have read once David Cameroon, from supposed Conservative Party who asked for exclusion of Catholic orphanages from giving their children to adoption for homosexuals... This is not how conservatism is considered in Poland. If a leader of the party that I support (UPR) said something like this I would be shocked and demand not only his resignation but also expulsion from the party structures :) So I presume that British conservatism is rather about economy. However I read that Cameroon claim to be Protestant.




5000 to be registered in one election district. (out of 41) If you manage to do it in 21 election districts then they automatically register you in whole country. But of course you need to try to do it in every district and you must collect more because some may be questioned later. If mayor parties get donations from state budget then this is not problem for them. While small parties have a lot of problem especially if they officially oppose such donations like UPR.



I think that they could together collect about 4%. Mostly recently established Woman Party, a leftist project which immediately gained positive coverage of mainstream media and UPR which is rarely mentioned and if something then only in "bad" context. General results would be almost the same but these parties lost the opportunity of promotion in public media. Unfortunately we have "media democracy", because media create image of parties and certain politicians, chose subject of discussions during the debates and even who will represents certain party (if invited at all). Level of manipulations is horrific.

They are opposed to social abortion but would allow it in certain circumstances, example if the pregnancy was the result of rape.

They are opposed to homosexual marriages and homosexuals adopting children.



Cameron is simply a poor imitation of Tony Blair.



The Conservative Party is. They represent the interests of Global Capitalism.



Exactly the same in the UK.

Yeah, I remember BBC giving the honorary title of the Man of XX Century to Carl Marx...

Just one more question, how Independence Party differ from BNP? They fight for the same voters I suppose.

NYT about the result of our elections.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/27/opinion/27sat3.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

"The Kaczynskis spoke, and will doubtless continue to speak, for the hurts and resentments born of Poland’s tragic 20th-century history. The problem was that they often behaved as if that history was the exclusive property of their political party, and their belligerent, populist tone its only legitimate voice.

The grudges and suspicions they nurtured extended not just to ex-Communists, but to Germans of all generations, foreign business leaders, secularists, intellectuals, and on and on. They fostered a climate of accusation and suspicion that divided Poland from its natural European partners and alienated the more forward- and outward-looking younger generation."

these are the same grudges and suspicions that are displayed on this forum - lets hope that those who continue to hold them realise the harm they are doing to poland's present and future and allow the more forward and outward-looking of the younger generation lead poland into its deserved future.

Join us or shut up.

And... ? What about Jamaican press ?

It is interestiong why Americans prefere Tusk as their partner ? Tusk is going to take our soldiers form Iraq and I dont think Poland is going to support USA policy in way it was last time. Maybe it was rather problem to have such friends as PM Kaczysnki?




Oh yes join who ? Now Poland is represented by PO not by your PiS.