Poland 2007 Elections: PO Won, PIS second

Do you think that NYT runs America ?

No I think that curently FOX runs USA, but it is another discussion ...

and Poland is run by TVN, right? :)


By the way, this is funny how "Rzeczpospolita" daily plans to print English version magazine done by people from NYT. So the blind supporters of PiS want to print American "GW"!

I agree that TVN has liberal character, and is very popular TV station in Poland, but I dont think they "run Poland"

Perhaps the most influencing. Masters in media manipulation - turning a TV set into a brain washing machine. Together with Gazeta Wyborcza.

TVN is owned by ITI group (a major media group in Poland, listed on the Luxembourg stock exchange).

The ITI also owns the largest Polish portal onet.pl as well as other media including control over "Tygodnik Powszechny" - important catholic magazine.

ITI is an interesting enterprise which started under communst rule (before 1989) dealing in the area of electronics, involved in foreign trade.
However unlike other private enterprises they did not suffer difficulties from communist authorities. Please realize that running even a small private shop was a nightmare before 1989 on this side of Iron Courtain.

After dissolving the WSI (Military Information Service) by the PIS government (2006) the dirty truth leaked out: this company was in service for communist 's intelligence.

Important details remains obfuscated including relations among the TVN and WSI.

see in wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojskowe_S%C5%82u%C5%BCby_Informacyjne

I dont agree, brain wash is made in TVP or RM, yes TVN is liberal but you should notice that members of PiS and their point of view is respected in TVN. Wildstein, Staniszkis, Ziemkiewicz the main propagators of IV RP and other PiS ideas are widly represented in debates which we have in TVN. Polsat (another TV station) has just that kind of character they atack everybody in brutal way, durring SLD gov they were one of the most brutal, durrring PiS gov they did the same ... There is Radio M and TV Trwam ... everybody can find something to watch or read (GW, Nasz Dziennik, Dziennik, Rzeczpospolita, Wprost, Polityka, Newsweek Pl ed. Nasz Dziennik, Trybuna, NIE) Everybody has their media, and it is good, our media arent political correct and it is in my opinion really good but the price is that we have brutal debates ... (all sides arent political correct) and I m sure that PO is not going to change it...

I presume you're asking about UKIP (United Kingdom Independance Party)?

They're a single issue party. They are opposed to Britain's membership of the EU and that's about it. All other policies are related to that one issue.

They both fight for the same anti-EU vote. In the last EU election UKIP came out on top, they were fairly even matched at the last General election and the BNP come out on top in local elections.

So you little know what is media manipulation and related propaganda and persuation technics. I do not say being professional in this area. Just basic knowledge to be aware.

This is a common feature of GW readers (TVN watchers as well). I say a word related to manipulation (or related) - they do not understand.
For exaample: a simple word memetics is not known. Or I have not met anyone of them knowing it yet.

The famous book "The virus of the mind" has been translated into Polish. However ....

The basic knowledge about media manipulation you can find even in wikipedia. Do not expect it would be written about it in GW or told in TVN :))

They are masters because you are not conscious of beeing affected. Finally you think the way they want.

TVN is liberal and everybody know that, so what is the problem ? They represent liberal point of view, that is all. I western countries there is the same, some media are conservative some are liberal. In Poland we have choice if you dont like TVN or GW you can read Dziennik or Wprost, Trybuna or NIE and watch other TV stations .



for example you think that lower taxes are better, that gay is equal human, EU is good business for Poland ...


Conservatist have their media and Liberals have their media, Commies have their media too. Everything is ok

and this whole atack of populists and RM listners on liberal side of our society gave PO victory in election :) so you can continue your crusiade...

Wasted time to discuss with you about it.

Similiar problems with:

* Jehovah's Witnesses - they are quite a nice people but do not even try to talk to them about religion.

* Amway distributors - you can talk, bot avoid any subject related to marketing or business...

* and so on.

In reality, PO is a party opposed to the radical reforms that PiS attempted to implement, notably ridding Poland of the Communist mafia permeating all the spheres of Polish political and economic life, and bringing to book those guilty of crimes and abuses during Communism. PiS has tried to keep Poland as sovereign as possible within EU. PO's role as opposition in the PiS-dominated Sejm was limited to obstructing PiS attempts to reach these goals. In addition, PiS has been cautious about the German aspirations to rule the EU single-handedly, and about Germany's being in cahouts with Russia, whereas PO appears to be clearly pro-German. By the way, Tusk, who isn't ethnic Polish, has a Hitlerite family tradition: his grandfather served in the Wehrmacht. Tusk, who is a historian by education, has lied he didn't know his grandpa was Hitler's trooper. Today the German nationalist daily Frankfurter Allgemaine Zeitung praises Tusk as 'Germany's friend.' Well, who are those in this thread who celebrate PO victory? As for some expat Britons here who seem to be happy about the PO win, how would you like it if I praised the victory in Brit elections of a party determined to make Britain a third-rate EU player, strip Britain of sovereignty and allow her to be ruled by secret services of, say, US, Germany and France?

- And what do you mean by that? Please, elucidate.
:)

- The media psychopaths run many countries, and they definitely run America. In brief, it works like this: when the media psychos en masse keep on praising someone, then even if the figure were a serial killer the people will automatically start perceiving him positively and he'll have a bright political career. On the other hand, when the media psychos en masse keep on picking on someone, then even if the figure were Jesus himself, the people will automatically start perceiving him negatively, and he'll be finished as a politician. It's that simple.
PS. That's exactly what has happened in Poland during the recent elections: PiS, a party for whom the Polish national interest is the highest value, had against itself the combined power of hacks from Michnik's Gazeta Wyborcza, Walter's TVN, Solorz's Polsat, Springer's Dziennik, etc., whereas PO, a party for whom Polish national interest has little value, was supported by those hacks.

- Hm, so the Rzeczpospolita hacks are allegedly 'blind supporters' of PiS? Don't you exaggerate a tinge? In reality, the Rzeczpospolita under Gauden seemed like a twin sister of Michnik's Polonophobic Gazeta Wyborcza. Rzeczpospolita has been a dumping ground for all sorts of Communist politruks, such as Stefan Bratkowski. Have you ever read this sinister hack's brutal and slanderous anti-PiS tirades in the Rzeczpospolita?

I m not going to discuss with you, you dont stick to Polish reality ... In my opinion you have read all informatons about Tusk (and his family history) in different topics on this forum and now you lie just because you want to lie ... kiss my a s s. POLAND HAS CHOSEN HIM

- Of course, you're not going to discuss with me, because you're not intelligent enough to do that. Also, I can safely assume you are unable to prove I 'don't stick to Polish reality' and that I'm lying about Tusk's family's Nazi connection and his indignant lying about his ignorance of it. It's just part of Poland - the ignorant polaczkowie like you, the thoughtless mob brainwashed by Michnik and his - who have 'chosen' Tusk. As for your demand that I kiss your miserable behind, hm, it seems that you're not only a liar and ignoramus, but also a sexual deviant. Is it you on the pic to the left of your post?

Let's wait and see how Tusk and his mob rule. Then I'll remind you your nauseating joy at their 'victory.'
:)

Not true.



You forgot to say that yes he served in the Wehrmacht, but deserted. He joined the Allies, so against the nazists...You should tell the whole story and not only the parts you choose...

My mother (who is Polish) told me a few weeks ago that my grandfather was on the German side too (by force). It doesn't mean he was a nazist, as i am not.

get a picture of your idol Donald Tusk then go and toss yourself.

Do you have a poster of Kaczki in your bedroom, and a statue of Rydzyk ?... ;)

what for ?

frankly:
a poster - copy of a picture of a famous painter. looks nice (no politics no religion, just imagination).

Hehe just joking ;) I'm going, dobra noc.

- Well, so even you agree that Tusk's grandpa served in the Wehrmacht. It's what actually counts here - grandpa did really serve in the Wehrmacht. How many Poles did he kill? As for his defecting to 'the Allies,' I don't know much about it, and I am incredulous about the alleged escape. The rumours about the escape may be a piece of propaganda for the benefit of Tusk and his party. Quite a few Nazi bandits defected to the Allies when they realised Germany had lost the war. Tusk was obviously hiding his grandpa's past, so it appears the past must not have been too glorious. In fact, the communists accepted numerous Nazi collaborators into the Russian-led security apparatus, the dreadful 'bezpieka.' Or winked at their past for some favours, such as ratting. To conclude, because of Tusk's grandpa's Nazi past and Tusk's lying about it any real Pole should not trust Tusk.

Oh, so you also have a Nazi family connection?

No wonder you defend Tusk and slam decent Polish people, such as the Kaczynskis and Father Rydzyk.

Perhaps you keep in your bedroom a life-size portrait of Hitler?
:)

Puzzi he served 14 days in wermaht and deserted and joined allied forces ... that is why I m not going to discuss ... you are 'inteligent' in different way ... you dont know the facts and you accuse sb ... typical PiS supp

and who carres about his grand fa ... no body

Tusk's grandpa deserted something like in 1940, so many years before the end of the war !



So what ? The past is behind us, it's over. Now we have to think of a better future, stop looking over your shoulder. It's like in a car, when you're driving, if you're spending your time watching behind you, you may have a big crash. I hope Poland won't have any crash...

By the way, during the Kaczki/Tusk TV debate, Kaczki attacked him on this subject, but just like you, he forgot to tell all the truth, that his grandpa were not a nazi, and deserted the German troops (he could have been killed for that).




LoL i hate Hitler, please don't think i like or support him, NO WAY ! My Polish grandpa served by force Germany (my Polish family is from Silesia). He never was a nazi, and by the way was not a soldier, so i think he didn't kill anybody. He worked for them.

To finish, i hope you know that all Germans were not nazis, do you ? Many were forced to belong to the nazi party, many were killed for telling the government they didn't agree, and others fought alongside the Allies.
In time of war, you don't know how you'd react. Imagine you were born in 1920. At the beginning of 1940 you were 20, and forced to join the enemy troops. If you protested, you were just shot dead. It's so easy to criticize someone's behaviour some 60 years after...

Look in front of you, the future is brighter than the past.

:)

I dont know fi this discussion stick to this subject.

To cut long stroy short, people a litle bit mixed (Polish-German) in western part of Poland or coming form miniorities like Kashubians were forced to join Wermaht, in German units they werent considered as true Germans and were always on first line so they prefered to desert and join alies ... .

That is all ...

True. And as i just said, it's easy to criticize today, your a.s.s. on your chair, with a glass of *** (what you want), for what happened in so "special" times...

German law between 1918 and 1945 forbade members of the Wehrmacht from belonging to any political party. The Nazis were in the Waffen SS. Or the Hitler Youth, like the Pope.

There is so many thing to criticize about PO and Tusk that to chose cheap propaganda about his grandfather is silly.

Another pathetic post about the Pope, he was not a Nazi. Some people here need to read some history books before start posting. TV is NOT enough. I'm Polish and i dare to say that more I read about Benedict decisions more I like him. His line seems to be better that policy of our Polish Pope on some aspects.

I don't want to say they are perfect, but is there really nothing to criticize about PiS and the Kaczkis...?