Poland has paid £68 Million for helping UK in WW2

It is hard for you isn't it Giles. The US government wanted to save the Muslims from ethnic cleansing.

The US government wanted to save the Muslims from ethnic cleansing.

Wrong they couldn't careless.

OK. I'll try, in part,- the Germans called their warfare "Blitzkrieg". They called the Allied warfare "Sitzkrieg" -translated- sitting on your backsides. German Generals have stated,irrevocably, that had the UK or France( with all her arms) attacked the North- Western border eg northern France, Belgium, Holland- Germany would have retreated. They freely admit a 2 front war was beyond their capabilities. Although, I must agree with you Frank the Brit. made a token effort of dropping leaflets on German capital cities-flying low and making sure the leaflets were not bundled, fearing German casualties.
You're right again, GB did sit cringing- appeasing Hitler continuously.The Munich Agreement signed 30/9/1938 signed by Chamberlain, Daladier, Mussolini and Hitler sealed the fate of Poland and the other Baltic countries- especially with Chamberlain's machinations of pressuring Hacha to capitulate " for the greater good" after Hitler taking advantage of the Agreement, crossed the Sudentland into Czechoslovakia.
From the Allied point of view, they needed the Russian forces- by this time it would have wishful thinking of Germany and Russia destroying each other.
Still, Churchill entertained hopes to change matters post War regarding Russia " the men who hold power at the present will not keep it.....in consequence of this war two great powers , Germany and Japan, will disappear. Russia will remain. And the United States and Great Britain will possess huge stores of aircraft, guns, and tanks." More wishful thinking.

This is application of hind sight................supposition.......



This was a point made by someone else.........again hind sight, wishful thinking...no one really knows.

Whilst there are thoughts of an inadequate response from your allies, nevertheless your neighbours at the time were hell bent on one thing, expanding their empires, influence and getting rid of the less desirable populations in the EE, perhaps the wrong signals were sent out by the western allies...but it was German troops and later Russian troops who attacked occupied and massacred your people.

That is fact, not theory or supposiiton ; all we can work on is what happened, not what should have, would have or might have happened.

PS I thought the numbers murdered at Katyn was 30-40,000...if as on the other thread....200-300,000........even more horrific.

The German Generals were adamant that fighting on 2 fronts eg Poland and the North-Western border would not have been possible at the time in - to them it was not hindsight , supposition but reality.
The murdered discovered in Katyn( initially in 1943 ) numbers @15,000.
In 2006, murdered Polish Officers, soldiers, Intelligentsia, together with Ukranian, BeloRussian and others were discovered in mass graves outside Kiev numbering 200,000-300,000, the Ukranian Govt. is conducting an investigation.
I was agreeing with this point- by this time it was wishful thinking- the time to have acted by the Allies had long since gone - instead of insisting to the Poles NOT to mobilise, so as not to antagonise Hitler. The Poles moved their outdated planes anyway and camoflaged them, so at least they had something to go up against the Germans while waiting for Britain and more so- France to honor their treaty and waited and waited......

Seriously ?

...........so everyone else was to blame...........

Huh ?

mmm...bit vague- perhaps he means GB and France. The fact remains because of their pre-war machinations Hitler's door to Poland was open. Their refusal to honor the treaty Poland meant Poland, acting in good faith( would have been good of them to inform Poland they weren't going to) capitulated 28 days later and continued to fight in pockets on 4 fronts.

It was not my intention to offend the poles and im very sorry to anyone that taken offence to my remark...it must of been a awful time for poland which i can never comprehend and i only hope now,times will be better for you.
But im from a different generation and im only quoting history from what i was told and that radio phone-in i listened to.
I hope poland and the uk will get on better now.

There is a serious point to be made here. We can only comment upon what we have learnt from studying History. The intrepretation of events given is often slanted towards the benefit of the country where you live. For example, I grew up knowing about the German destruction of cities in England such as Coventry in WWII but events like the apalling destruction of Dresden were glossed over. Unless you have the time and inclination to probe deeper it is easy for the first impressions to becomd de facto facts. That is why it is so interesting to take part in debates such as these. A wider perspective is invaluable.

Well said Globetrotter..........we non Polish members relish your perspectives and anecdotal experiences.

None of the western countries covered themselves in glory at times..and there are lots of things which need apologising for.......indeed Irelands record during WWII left a lot to be desired!

I agree with Mr GlobTrot in English history we are not tought the whole story about WWII and of late it has been prog after prog about WWII and what Poland went through along with other countires.

The whole alliance was made only to prevent Poland from joining Germany, without that or If they had informed that are going to do nothing, Poland would have joined Germany (lesser evil) and attack the Soviet Union together with them, which would probably make Soviets fall down and that wouldn't be good for France and GB. However France and GB overplayed the whole thing - didn't predict that Nazis could make the deal with Soviets and turn on the west first.

Tis the wisdom of the Ancient

I can't help but be impressed but the quality of some of the posts in this thread. Just goes to prove that it pays to pay attention to younger people and reaaly listen to them. Many people of my age dismiss them too easily.

Does Russia still refuse that they killed Polish soldiers at katyn??

I too learnt only through Enlish History. Some was picked up listening in on my parent's spirited discussions with acquantainces, where I should not have been and inevitably was chased away. Then I discovered books. "Prog after prog" - good,bad? To make a statement is easy, better to back it with facts- in Poland's case this is complex, takes explanation. All that was left to Poland was the truth, to gloss over or distort it is to take that too.

So sorry,forgot the g in English-apols.

Lesser evil.....?

I cant agree with that.
Germany now is a completely different country to what it was once was.
But at the time in ww2,germany did some terrible things,because they had that evil dictator - Hitler.

You see those news reels of jews going to the gas chambers they did not realize what was going to happen to them until it was too late and anyone else that hitler did not approve of.I found those news reels very upsetting...he wanted to rule europe and if you got in his way,then you would of paid with your life.
Put it this way....if hitler would of had his way and he won the war....i would of been killed for being gay and this world would be a very different place.we certainly would not be so free to debate topics like this.

The german people at the time did not want war.....Hitler deceived many countries.

I dont try to lead anyone to believe that the uk is a perfect country,far from it.In many ways the uk has alot to answer for....but we did not kill or gas people for being different.

At least Japan said sorry for what they did,but that does not make it ok....but they did show remorse.

And for the record,i did not say that to upset anyone.....it was my opinion based on some old news rees i saw on video someweeks ago.
You see i wanted to see some old footage of the ww1 and ww2

But i still have alot to learn from you all.

Jay, well spoken....upsetting some one aint he same as invading their country or slaughtering millions of people, you've got nothing to apologise for.....

I have a lot to learn too........as does everyone

Total utter hogwash Giles. Did you know that Clinton put an end to the ethnic murdering of the Muslims in Bosnia? Giles you are such an awesome internet gangster.

Still working on your secret fake story of what really happened in Bosnia. The US hated Muslims so they saved them from ethnic slaughter. Is this correct Giles?

Riff you just don't get it so there is no point try to explain. Sorry but I'm just not bothered enough to explain. I'm also assuming by your posts that you are under 25 years old.

Very briefly. Serbian nationalism threaten the emerging status quo in the former Yugoslavia. The KLA (Kosovan liberation Army) note the state department refered too them as terrosists, before the US backed them then they became "freedom" fighters. Incidently the KLA are very important in the transfer of heroin from Turkey into Europe(major US client state), from Afganistan. Where the US has its interests.

Nothing is black and white, the more you disturb the more rot you find.

I have alot of Serbian friends and have seen footage (private) of NATO plans bombing Serbian soft targets.
Listen don't think the Muslims weren't ethnically cleasing Serbs, they were.

Absolutely right- although Albert Spiel did show remorse at the Nuremberg Trials. Was it genuine- according to him it was , or to save his own skin? Still, at least the Germans took their punishment and in part atoned eg releasing masses of info regarding the atrocities and their part in the war via archives , libraries. The Russians, who should have been sitting in the same docks as the Germans happily took part in meting out punishment and never answered for their war crimes at Nuremberg. and covered up their own crimes- in comparison to Hitler, Hitler's pales significantly. Why do think Russia is not in the EU? Perhaps so they do not have to admit their atrocities and continue to be answerable to no-one.
I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I saw footage of Polish cavalry attacking German tanks with sabres and lances supposedly when Germany invaded. In fact, this German propanda film( You have to hand it to them their propanda was pretty good ) shot on and around Oct./November 1939 on the fields of Blonie( about 30 km west of Warsaw). The "Polish Cavalry" in fact German soldiers dressed in Polish uniforms were taught how to "attack" and fall from the horse without hurting themseves. All this was greedily swallowed up by the World Press as fact despite eye-witness accounts. One eye-witness? My Father- taken along by his Father.
What is true was that the Polish Cavalry did charge the German tanks on horseback with hastily bundled hand grenades, about 6 to a bundle called 'Philippines' which ruptured the caterpillar, effectively immobilizing a tank and making it a sitting duck for the good quality plentiful Polish Anti-tank guns.The German Tank Commander General Guderian etimated 15-20% German tank losses.He viewed the Polish Anti-tank Units with a high respect. Why? .........That would be another prog.

Hardly any people were killed only for that. There were more homos among nazis.

and the british army...

Relatively...but what about those who were mentally/physically handicapped, gypsies, romanies, belonged to the wrong political party, spoke out...and anyone and everyone who didn't fit in.....what.....houndreds of thousands...(?)..pitiful really that a whole nation either signed up or tacitly went along with this.......

It does not matter whether there was more homos,as you term it than nazis.....you dont kill people by any method simply for your own selfish ignorant reasons.