Poland Property...should I be scared

get sick and tired of people of people throwing out these one liners, I would love to live in Poland or Poland is the best place on earth it may well be, why don't you practice what you preach.

Most poles living overseas (not you) after a belly load of grog become very sentimental and patriotic, when they sober up they have nothing good to say about Poland.

I take off my hat for those who have remained in Poland in good times and bad times buidling up Poland, those leaving to work overseas have not been fair to there fellow country men and add insult to injury when they return home with a bucket load of dollars.
This may offend the Indiangirl and the funny man from China but that is the truth.


it is not always the case now- maybe 20 years ago. I have family in Tarnow area I rememebr 10-15 years ago nearly everyone had family member in USA. They wore designed clothes, were buying expensive cars, built big houses. I was just poor , grey person from Krakowcomparing to them. But to be honest I was not jelaous.
It is different now- there are many people with relatively good salaries in Poland,prices are higher value of USD is no so high. Most my friends have good jobs. I suppose the worst is for people from areas where is really high unemployment they don't have much chance just go abroad to work.

Most english people go abroad for the money (middle east tax free) so I would say that most english people would come home - unless they have emigrated - which is totally different

Also the majority of Polish people coming over are early 20is and it's more to improve their english and save money to buy property back in Poland, which is fine - I just thought that with job market more open for people with degrees it might be worth their while - as a posed to coming over with a degree and working in a factory as a means to an end

Propery in poland

I was told you have to be a polish citizen to buy property in poland.
So the property you find and see as a good deal will have to go in your girlfriends name .
But your going to marry the women so you should not have a problem.
From what I understand about property in poland is ther are a lot of rules . But I also have been told that , many farmers are selling there land to builders to build new homes or business. I think being such a small country that buying any land in quantity would be a good long term investment. I think almost all of the wide open spaces in poland are in the way of more homes being built . So growth is heading your way . Its a small country so the land will be used. I think the closer you get to any city in poland will be a good deal as there is plenty of growth in poland. I do beleive that all purchases you do should be concidered long term. I was told there is no real flip type properties in poland . If you want to invest for long term in poland . Remember the rues of real estate in the states . LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION. Near any body of water is always a good purchase.
and if her parents house is paid for why not rent it out for income. And then when the time comes to move to poland you could sell then. Or tear down that house and build another. again Depending on LOCATION....
I have cousins here and when I say buy in poland with the money your making here. They fron on it.. So I don't want to lead you in the wrong direction. But checking comps in poland will give you all the answers you need. And you can make a good educated choice on what to do.

Good luck

"most english people go abroad for the money (middle east tax free)"

shelley... whatever gave you that idea...?

I worked for an engineering consultancy and many were happy to go over to the Middle East - TAX FREE

My uncle worked in the Middle East for may years - why? the money

so you see Bubba, based on the above facts is what gave me that idea!

with all due respect, shelley, your uncle and some of the people who worked at the same place as you do not qualify as *most English people*... do they...?

following your reasoning, more ex-pats go to the middle east to earn tax free wonga than say, france, spain, america, australia... or even poland... for the food, lifestyle, weather, whatever...

and lets not forget the thousands of wouldbe English teachers that leave every year for nothing more than the experience of seeing the world...

so if we want to generalise and say that *most English people* go abroad for one reason rather than another, then it's probably not because of the money...

The prices for real estate in Poland are in many areas higher than in NY City. What are they thinking?? Comparing the standard of living in NY to Warsaw is like comparing a Yugo to Volvo. The real estate bubble in Poland is bigger than most people would have imagined. It's a pity regular Poles and their children will have to pay the price.

are you predicting it's gonna burst?

Since it's a bubble, it's gonna explode in Poland, not even burst. You see, 1/3 of the Polish nation is compared of current and former immigrants. These are the ones who speculate most (in addition to speculants from other countries) and they pump the bubble. After living several years abroad they don't realize there are still many years barrier between Poland and other well-developed countries. For them it's normal they have to pay 5K per square meter - so when they go to Poland they are willing to pay this price as they THINK the value will increase. It will, but there are economic norms you cannot jump over. But Poland is known to propose and live by the "out of the box" rules.

What exactly do you mean? I was considering buying property in Poland.

what do you mean by that.
the real estate market in Canada had the same situation - due to the foreign real estate speculators - so as a result Canadians cannot efford to buy a house anymore.
It didn't expolde though - it just got settled.

it's still a good idea though.

Syrena,
it depends why you want to buy it. To live or to invest.

Someone has mentioned that after joining the EU the prices for real estate in Ireland went up 100% or more. Well, that's true - but it's silly to compare Poland to Ireland. Not because of the potential or the beauty of the countries (both countries have great potential, people, and beauty).

What makes the real difference is: THE LANGUAGE + THE CULTURE.

In Poland, the Polish language is spoken by 99% of all population. Assuming you are British, German, or American (those nations are considered the "richest" and buy most properties) - would you really be willing to permanently move to Poland and live there? Among people who can only speak Polish in their everyday live? Why there is no "real estate boom" in Hungary anymore? How about Croatia or other countries that are even more beautiful and have much better climate than Poland?

Ireland is an English-speaking country. British, American, or even German (for whom English is almost a natural language) have no problems to move to Ireland and actually permanently live there. They will not be considered "strangers" as Brits, AMericans, or Germans do in Poland. They will have no problems to mingle with the local people and adapt their culture and lifestyle.

In Poland, there is a difference in peoples lifestyles and culture. Someone who doesn't speak Polish well is likely to be a stranger throughout his/her life in Poland. Ireland is for investors from the UK or US like their country - just like New Zealand would be if they were to be united with Australia. So, again, the prices in Ireland increased so much in long-term mostly because of people who were actually going to live in Ireland as they would have no problem moving and live there permanently. In Poland only people born in Poland will feel like home. Same in Hungary, Croatia, etc.

This topic is full of everything from good sound intelligent information and advice to some pretty over the top stereotyping of our asian cousins .

I have owned a property in Poland for about 3 years.Since it is in a Rural area it is almost impossible to judge the rise in price(my valuation varies between 20 and 70%).This is because the locals will never give a true price for anything if asked and so getting any price takes about 3 weeks and on average 2 bottles of vodka and then this can change once they talk again to their cousin from Warsaw .....

The only facts that I base my judegment on are
wages for Poles in the UK is about 4 times what the people in towns close to me were earning last year.
A good percentage gets returned to the Polish economy through familys
European money is now being channelled directly into Poland
Very very few families currently have large loans or mortgages.
UK banks will give loans to just about anyone with an address and proof of a few months wages

In my opinion - Poland is due to see a fairly substantial rise in house and property prices in the next 5 years.

I agree with the comparisons that have been made to Ireland and even Spain. The time to invest in Poland for property is now.



It is also not true that only Polish people can buy properties. The facts are these

A foreigner may purchase real estate only after receiving permission from the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Administration (after approved by the Ministry of Defence and, in the case of farmland, also after receipt of approval by the Minister of Agriculture)

From the day of accession to the EU (1 May 2004), foreigners who are citizens or entrepreneurs of the EEC countries do not need permission to purchase real estate...

Exceptions to the above are:
1) Farms and woodlands - permission is required during the first 12 years from the date of Poland's accession to the EU. However, permission is not required if several conditions are fulfilled: if the person who wants to purchase the real estate is a leaseholder over a defined period (7 years for western regions of Poland and 3 years for the remainder ... and if the leaseholder personally conducts agricultural activities and lives legally in Poland
2) "Second House" - permission is required during the first 5 years from the date of Poland's accession to the EU (however, permission is not required if a foreigner lives legally and continuously in Poland for 4 years or if he purchases a "second house" in order to conduct business activities in tourism services

For the exact restrictions visit paiz.pl, click the Union Jack, select Polish Law from the menu across the top and then 'Purchase of Real Estate by Foreigners' from the menu on the left hand side

I hope this adds some value.

Also can you send some of those Polish builders back over to me because I have not finished my renovation work

mmm interesting points mmm...it is still crucial for people living in poland to buy into real estate asap...the point that in poland the languge is mainly polish, it would follow that very few non poles would be willing to settle into poland because of cheap homes, employment, way of life and future prospects would need to be considered.
I can only warn people buying investment properties in poland not to take any notice of the spin made by real estate agents that things are booming, the places where money has been made is out of reach to the average pole and relates to blue chip properties in krakow and warsaw..
A new entry into polish real estate is people coming in from Ireland and GB setting up real estate companies eager to make a quick killing.. the only casualty will be the poor bunny carrying the last package.

I have been monitoring some real estate property sites and some properties are still not sold after 2 years?

could you give a specific example please.

lef... not sure what you want to know but i develop property in and around the tri city... prices are rising literally as you look at them...

... i buy anonse, which comes out on a wednesday morning, and i get up early to get it... good properties have often gone by the time i call up... which is early... dont even bother looking at the website becasue they cant keep it updated...

... a favourite is advertising a property for X59,OOO zl and then when you phone up the price has changed to X95,OOO zl... i have been gazumped a couple of times with offers over 5O,OOO zl above the asking price...

could you give an example of a house for sale ie land size, type of house and asking price?

dont know if your question is addressed to me or Janf...

i buy flats mainly because i dont need a permit to do so... but i recently put in an offer on a house - 3OO sqm, land - 8OOsqm with lake at the bottom of the garden in gdansk osowa... 25Ok zl... i made an apointment with the notary to sign documents, phoned up the vendor to tell he when and she had agreed to sell it to someone else for 3OOK zl... all this was over a period of about ten days

Sorry - only just picked up the thread again...

The property prices vary wildly dependent on the area . Especially where I am situated which is a tourist town/village in the Karkonoske mountains surrounded by small undeveloped hamlets. I am not sure what you are trying to find out.

As a very rough guide a small farmhouse suitable for a guesthouse (350sqm /1000sqm) is up for sale at about 200,000PLN (major renovation being required) whereas 2 miles up the road it would be triple that (at the very least).

I can help source all types of property in my area. Please contact me through the business pages.

I need some help for my friend who is going out to Poland shortly to look for property in the Olsztyn area. Does anyone know of any English speaking estate agents in that area?
Any help with buying a small flat in that area would be really helpful.

Ela...please read over this thread....plus check links etc.......

http://www.polishforums.com/apartment_purchase_poland-7_2707_0.html

Frank Thanks for the link it was really useful.

No problem Ela, can you keep us up to speed re your friends progress/ success?

There are a number of people on the board who have an interest in buying something, I hope they can all post their experiences on the thread listed above!

Please go easy on the free country bit. it's not that free! Buy a luxury flat in Warsaw and pay around 900 USD/month for 'maintenance'. Not counting the electrics, water etc. From Jan 1 tax on gains is I believe 19% if you sell before 5 years is up. Foriegners can buy flats but not a house or land. Buy a new flat and you will need a builder because all you get is the walls,doors and windows, the rest is all yours to do. Kitchen, bathroom, wardrobes etc etc. Generally this'll cost half as much as the original purchase. Yes foriegners have had a ball here due to escalating prices, but like in most parts of the world the law of gravity prevails. Oh yes and beware those low interest rates. There's no such thing as a free lunch as they say!

Hmm I like the stuff about the fat jobs you're gonna get in Poland with your degree and all! My son has two degrees Political science and International Relations gained at Warsaw Uni! Get a job in Poland? Hah! No way Jose he's now currently working his butt off in some dump in the USA and he has no intentions of ever coming back to Poland. Neither does he intend to stay in the land of the free either! I don't blame Poles for leaving as they've done for generations. Only now they get a chance to do it legally in Europe and not duck and dive in some Chicago enclave sweat shop! Or stand for hours to beg for their US visa. Unless Poland gets real and starts to pay the rate for the job they will continue to lose their brightest. That includes the doctors who are voting with their feet.

Unfortunately it's true. I have several genaration of labour migrants in my family. WHat could be the explanation?

We regarding the whole property buisness I have two flats in the Tri-city area, one I live in when in Polska and one currently being finished off and then to put out to rent.
I would not disagree that Poland is poorer than its Western EU cousins, however, the money is beginning to flow.
Firstly a huge number of young people have moved to the UK and Ireland, where they tend to work hard and SAVE. The majority of Polish people working in the UK I know, are buying [properties back home, specifically flats. Which is a major reason for the growth of property prices. YES, foreign investors are buying up lots of off-plan apartments in the major cities, but this is the same in most major European cities.
Secondly, the EU is pumping huge amounts of cash into the infrastructure of the country as well as Poland being the largest receipient of private investment.
To refer to Poland as third world is a little provocative. True in certain regions, especially the South West, life is more Ukrainian than European, but that will change.
If we look back to the development of Portugal and Ireland after EU accession, it is an upward trend, this pattern should be repeated in Poland.

Finally with regards to Poland being poor, yes it is but. There are a lot of wealthy Polish people, alot. I think many Polish hide their money, its a cash thing. They want to keep it from the Taxman and the government. If you own your own buisness you can do very well thank you. If you work for the state, well enough said.

P19...hes just testing the waters...seeing what sorta reception he gets.....lol.......grass greener on the other side of the electronic fence......

Ireland joined the EU at the same time as UK....1973......nothing happened for a long.......long time........then it was a gradual rise ealry ninties, then they attracted more EU funds , then a new 10% max corporation tax, then USA factories...then low interest rates....now ....no one can afford to live there!

Portugal joined much later......and what has happened them....or Greece or even Spain.......need to ask more questions...the Irish scenario is probably unique...something to aspire to....but duplicate....may be difficult !!!!!