Poland-Russia: never-ending story?

Lukasz, a great snobery exists in former communist states: in Russia, Ukraine, Hungary, Polans etc. No low-cost, no goods available to all, no goods we can gain working days and nights abroad. You reject unexpensive cottages we can get without paying for them the resy of our life. You reject cars we can buy for our salary of 4 mounths.
While the Americans and Western Europeans actively discuss information about future Renault-Nissan car for 3000 USD. They are enthusiastic. We not.

Lukasz is snobery your game? Does it defend your interests or the interests of all your relatives?

I haven't told that we should oppres protestants this time, because a lot of Poles were protestants this time ... All in all when there were religious wars in whole Europe, all refugees were coming to Poland because we had religious freedom. And we made good business on it. But especially Germans were refugees we will remember long time, firstly smilling hard working peaceful settlers, later ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanization

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_column

All in all muslim will do the same with them now ... what is really good

Im not going to discuss the case of low cost, and to be honest when somebody will invent somthing like that we will get it

Tatars are in Poland-Lithuania for 7 centuries without any trouble. Many of them became Christian and formed szlachta.
Muslims form some 10% of Russian population and most of them are quite soft. They didn' betray Russia during 500 years and had nearly a zero participation in revolution.

The problems West has with muslims are the result of its wrong policy today

No, but they dotate your economy...fortunately/unfortunately we have no such sponsorship ;-)))

It is already invented by Ford 100 years ago.
Today not construction only but new materials are required as qell as new methods of production, digital codes for each detail, Internet registration of all details and their way to consumer etc. etc.
That all require billions of USD. The world has money for donations but a coordinator is required also.
Besides that a great force able to resist car manufacturers' interests in high cost is also necessary.
No problem to create optimum low cost. Problem to attract money, coordinate and superate resistance.

It is not exactly right, they have tried to form an independent state but failed.

Following revolution only when central force became ilegal.
That's the case of Tatars. As to some Coucasus ethnic groups as Chechens, they aren't so numerous and their behaviour isn't common with all muslims in general.

Hemm, we have some another difficulties with Chechens....

No I meant exactly Tatars, it's a famous Itil republic with Kazan as a potential center

When did it take place? In the perioud between 1552-1917? I have doubts.

This republic existed only during one year 1917-1918...exactly its name sounds as Idel-Ural State

I see... What about Negroponte laptop for 200 USD now and some 75 USD in two years? Tell me about Polish participation in this project. Every Pole is going to buy a laptop to his child and if it is so does everybody want to pay an average salary for that if he has such 200 USD choice?
Do you know paper manuals and textbooks for schoolchildren are already out of date?
Polygraphy is expensive and manuals are heavy for children. Nogroponte invented a laptop that lookes like a tablet. It is not heavy and all manuals can be in electronic variant.
I repeate my question:
Was EU participation in this and similar projects adecuate?

When legal head of state is out of throne separatism is inevitable

Oh,please you've no idea how many things the EU dotates in Russia. E.g. 3 Billion Euro from TACIS and Assistance for Kaliningrad in the last 10 years. Not to mention the fact that european investors are the most significant investors in Russia and european market is the main market for russian goods. All this contributed to the economic growth in Russia. The truth is that both EU and Russia depend on each other and Russia is no independent economic superpower.

Thruhlei look on Ukraine, they are closer to democracy than you and they dont have gas, petrol or "low cost cottages".

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7025382.stm

I don't honestly think that Polish people hate Russians and Russians Poles. It is mainly a problem of politicians in both countries who look too much in the past. Putin misses the position of Russia from times of Soviet Union and Polish politicians behave as the Second World war happened yesterday.

I do like Russians, I've been to Russia few times, think it's an incredible country with very complicated history.

We don't have significant oil and gas resources, and..? Isn't it the outcome that counts?





Both Polish and Russian foreign politics and aspirations were always in conflict, and although, similarly to the dispute with Germans, a lot of historical arguments are being thrown in to the debate, it is all about the present and future position of both countries in modern world. People that claim otherwise are either naive or british. :) Ok, ok, sorry folks. I couldn't help myself. It should have been: either naive or ignorant of the political situation in eastern and central Europe. No hard feelings I hope. :)

and next Putins move

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/02/AR2007 100202017.html

Poles, Russians - I am curious

When would Poland and Russia start to behave seriously and support Slavic interests on Balkan? Why at least on Serbian example Poland and Russia can`t cooperate. Its good chance

Cooperation between Poland and Germany is a priority...more than with Russia, i think...

Thanks for answering me but tell me...

You mean you suggest that or that is priority for current politicians?

I suggest ;) Polish super government loves Miss Angela Merkel and Germany but...erm...don't think their priority is making German/Polish relations better :p

Current Serbian president mr boris tadic loves germans even more. Before he say something `claver` he regularely ask german ambasador what he can say or can`t say. I undersdand him, he must beware that something doesn`t fall on his head as was case with Milosevic in 1999 (you know what I want to say)

Now, seriously

It is diusguisting to me to see that so called West propose to Slavic countries cooperation with non-Slavs as priority, when in the same time cooperation with other Slavs represent abomination (while they integrates, Slavs segment). They don`t like to see Slavs togather, that scary them and endanger their imperial plans. In other words (in our example) it mean, that if you like germans you are open and modern but, if you like your own Slavic kind you are beckwarded. Those are my friend Polson, double standards.

It is obvious to me that Slavs must learn to work togather if they want to survive in this world. Only that way we can profit from encounters with other civilizations. One can`t love other people, if one can`t love his own civilization.

We should all learn to work together, not only Slavs.
I was sarcastic when i said that "Polish super government" loves Germany...it's maybe more the contrary ;p

Of, course but how can we be open on others if we aren`t open for our own kind? Why is that so strange that Slavs are priority for Slavs. That doesn`t need to exclude cooperation with others (on the contrary, that should boost our cooperation with others and in the same time we would be in much batter position).

Look, i only propose that Slavs must have united politics (approach) on foreign civilizations. It can be even some kind of cultural union. At least that and, i would be satisfy.


well, then germany should learn not to speak about changing borders and give up to force germanization

If they want to impress me they should for example give independance to Lusatians. Not to mention their Balkan schemes. Yes, germany need to change a lot of things in its politics if they want to be taken seriously from Slavs

Except the fact of being Slavs (which is difficult to say in Poland, with mixes), what have "we" really in common ? Our language is a bit similar sometimes, but the religion is not always the same, the way we write (latin/cyrillic), our influences, etc. All that makes us quite different. We're all European at least, and that is the most important point for me, proud of being European ;p



Old History, isn't it ?...

There are lyrics of a song of Muse i like particularly (in "Map of The Problematique")

-> "No one thinks they are to blame
Why can't we see
That when we bleed we bleed the same"

LoL ;)

Polson

Don’t take Slavs in general exclusively as ethnic/national formation which only can be capable (possible) for union based on some brotherhood. That is vulgarization. Slavs are more then that. It’s even more then Europe, we are for already thousands of years human kind stretched on intercontinental level.

Yes, same origin connects majority of Slavs but, thru time due to achievements (take knowledge of agriculture for example and religious system based on solstice in time BC) of our civilization, many people which encountered our ancestors simply joined them (to us). So, you see Slavdom is more then brotherhood and its not only about blood. Its way of life, free life, primordial knowledge’s which are universal and are fundament of any civilization, mentality, spirituality, culture, language, etc.

Slavdom is alternative way of life for people who understand that it is good that people are different, that it is good that Slavs experienced different religious approaches and that differences doesn’t need to lead in misunderstandings. On the contrary, Slavs need to prosper because they are spiritually rich and diverse, not to extinct.

This world needs Slavs, connection with nature, tolerance that is essential part of our beings.

You see, Slavs started as brothers and cousins but, they evolved in real cultural conglomerate. Are we capable to evolve?


Look what USA or Canada (for example) trying to do. They are young countries, not even nations but, they already have their intelligentsia (let’s say- intellectuals which are mutualy connected with common interests) and they trying to form nations. They explore their history seriously and Slavic history needs to be funny to us, object of laughing (there are many opened questions and controverses but serious nations/civilizations seek). But, why USA or Canada force (children of immigrants in schools first learn anthems of those countries) creation of American/Canadian nations if that isn’t important. Why great number of Slavs doesn’t know their own history? Many questions


Somebody would maybe say `we live in world of globalization, there are great multinational companies, nationality isn’t important`

But wait, then nationalism need to be replaced with coroprationism and when we become part of corporation, our nations need to extinct. But, why? Because some interest group say so and suggest that we via corporationism in fact become just part of some other nation which is suit to some magnates (interest groups) and, then again and again…

Isn’t it batter that Slavs preserve their civilization and evolve? Why would we accept that our children live as object of experiments and laughing? Why would we disregard efforts of some our ancestors which because of their own interests (you see, same as some magnates trying to do today) separates form some ancient tribe, choused Danube (or even some river before Danube), invented agriculture and started their historic journey?

Why would Slavs abandon their great heritage, in time when some other nations seek to preserve and explore their young histories?

Let’s evolve. Let’s survive!

But, to evolve, to survive we need to work togather

o my god, you Serbs are really crazy :)

as to Slavic union LOL no way,