Poland-Russia: never-ending story?

firstly i love the use of the slang names :)

Well isn't that the Germans attitude to every other nation!!! We just have to ignore them and let them get on with their imperialist thoughts :) While the rest of the world gets on with making an effort to get along

Ehhh but forexaple I m not talking about history, but current problems ... And i dont call Russians Russkies or Germans Krauts, because there are different Poles and different Russians and Germans.

But what i think about Russians is that they are victimims of their own regime, they havent any opportunity to choose their government. And their rather poor people maniupalted all the time ...

You konw there are some regimes in africa too, who kills their own people and invides otherr coutries to avoid disscusion about problems of their own coutry.

Russian government is in that wery simillar, they point at bad western coutries, or nationalistic baltic states to avoid disscusion about corution, economy, law ...

Thats why we have problems with them, because who have meet russians personaly and talk to them, drink vodka with them ;) you know like normal people ... knows that they are realy friendly and much more simillar to Poles than Germans ...

Thats why we should help for oposition in Russia , promote free media there ... because reacher more educated and free people in russia is better for our saffety

re: firstly i love the use of the slang names :)

- Glad to make you feel good in this respect.

re: Well isn't that the Germans attitude to every other nation!!!

- No, not towards every nation. They ingratate themselves in other nations' favours, flatter these nations, play the divide-and-conquer politics (for now not in the military sense - yet).

Not only the Germans have this 'attitude.' Haven't you forgotten about the Russkies?

re: We just have to ignore them and let them get on with their imperialist thoughts :)

- You mean we 'have to' let them falsify history, puff themselves gradually with revanchist false beliefs? What do you think can result for us from this, mate?

re: Russians is that they are victimims of their own regime

- So they are 'victims' aftert all ?! Wow!
:)

they can falsify all they want, i'm sure everybody who is anybody knows exactly what the Germans have done in the past and their views in the Modern day. Everybody knows there is still a big 'NAZI' problem in Germany yet what are the government doing about it??


thats what you get when you can't control a communist state properly, it blows up in your face :)

re: they can falsify all they want, i'm sure everybody who is anybody knows exactly

- Wrong, my friend. If you allow hostile mass delusions to flourish, they can be used against you. A lie repeated ten times becomes truth. Look for evidence of this in Russia and Germany's recent history.

re: thats what you get when you can't control a communist state properly, it blows up in your face :)

- Perhaps so, but how does the above prove the point that the Russians are victims (not oppressors)?
:)

the Russian government are the oppressors and the Russian people are the victims


Even if they ever did rise up, they would have to many enemies to deal with :)

PS, tornado. You wouldn't believe what the German media say at present about Poland and the Poles. Goebbels would be happy. I'll be regularly giving samples of the German hate propaganda from entities such as Die Welt, Taggelspiegel, Frankfurther Allgemaine Zeitung.

re: the Russian government are the oppressors and the Russian people are the victims

- And how would you prove that?
:)

Ohhh!!! Truth!!! So you just make public facts which picked out by somebody with his own points of view, biases and even more, interests....so you have no your own experience in present Russian life and moreover in past Russian life !



Once, when Alexaner II was just a heir of the trone, he asked his teacher, - " What revolution is?" He answered: "Revolution is an insane attempt of the society to jump from Monday in Wednesday...". Well, our democracy is not perfect,but it has one characteristic property, it fits to present Russians conditions.

Yes they ar victims, and our greate german "friends" are suppoorting new face of old regime ... And we are not going to let them make form us (Poles) victims again ...

We do what we can do to help Russians, germans like always are supporting next regime (nothing new). It is not looking we are going to win this battle ... but all in all we are not going to be victim any more .

Ohhhh!!! He is a really "briliant" historian!!! He has polish wife, hence his son half-Pole, so his points of view may be contested!

Ha !!! I really like Poles especially for one distinctive feature, their tremendouse self-sufficiency.... ;-)))) Sorry, but you neve win this battle because you have no resources! Take as a model Finland, Hungary or Bulgaria, this states more yielding and therefore wise. I think it rather madly to rush in the domestic life of the neighbour, especially if this neighbour 56 times larger than you, sorry.....but it's only my point of view.

But It's getting smaller... we will wait.

Sorry me Puzzler, but you have narrow perception of history. You piled up history and traits. But I assure you that all acting in history have their logic explanations and motives!! For example Ivan IV (terrible is a bad translation from russian, "Tremendous" is more correct), his murders have clear political reasons, the extermination of the russian feudal nobility. And history, sorry Puzzler, pointed us that he was right, in contrast to his rival Batory.

Who is Pavka?

Ah.....and after all you want that we would permit to live your own life? No!!!

heh CosnstatninK

I used battle not to describe soldiers fighting on filed :-)))) Just the battle of idea :) You know I see myself as the liberal, and I belive the Democracy is good for everybody (maybe it isnt perfect but simply the best)

There were in history battles when one person was winning with whole coutry/regime/ect.

Look at Jean Paul II , Gahndi, Martin Luter King ...

I m not going to vote for opton in my coutry which will send trops to Russia :))) and to be serious. I just belive you are good enought (like every country/nation) to have democracy.

And when I writte about losting the batlle, I writte about that curently Russia is going somwhere ealse, for sure not to be more domocratic ... so we losting the battle, but the bigest victims are your citizens, who dont know what is it freedom of speach ect.


And manipulated society, witch strong developed propaganda aiming new enemies, is quite dangerous for Poland. Germans dont care about that, because they treat russians like not as good humans as they are (I have been in germany several times I have seen a lot ... ) and they just want your petrol and gas and dont care about Russians ...

... so they are great friend of regime but not your nation

We don't need any permissions from you... yawn...

I understood your perfectly, I saw that you have used this term in mental sense! But the battle of ideas needs resorces too. Poland always build castles in the air, it imagine that it's a democracy pillar on the East... Probably it would be more useful to concentrate on the domestic affairs? The state which economy is sponsored only by EU and US can't dream about some superiority in idea field, let's leave it to US or to China at worst.

My dear Lukasz, realize this fact! Acting by such unwise manner, Poland triggers a chain of circumstances. Russia see in this attempts a hostile interference in domestic affairs, so Russia must resist, but Poland has no enough strength to withstand... :-((((

You are right...bad word...., After all you want that russia will stop to interfer in the internal life of the neighbours!? Sure you need some supervisionj ust a a tiny bit...., otherwise you will harm yourself...

ConstatntineK

I have seen a lot of Russians in my life ... I know that it is very hard issue, but look here, we've disscused and discussed and we have arleady achieved something.

What is really important we need people in the top with good will ... and that is real problem

Well, me too ;-)))) Even too much.....



Let's leave those strange Russians to live as they want....

-Let's leave those strange Russians to live as they want...


You even dont know how similar Russian people are to Poles ... (regardning to your sentence) ...

re: You even dont know how similar Russian people are to Poles

- Does it follow Lukasz does even know how much the Russians are smilar to Poles? Please share your knowledge, Lukasz.

So there are folks who 'see' smilarities - great smilarities to boot! - between us and the Russians?

Wow, fascinating indeed.
:)

yes I see huge similarities ...

I have been to several European countries, and I find Russian PEOPLE similar, they have similar sense of humour, they reactions are emotional (maybe a littlebit more than our), our cusine is similar, ect.

What is more I noticed that it is very easy for us to make good personal contacts with Russians.

I can support my argument by choices made by wetern managers, who wants to make bussines in Russia ... Do you know who do they choose to go there and represent their interests ... us Poles ... because we have had comunism to, we understand post-comunistic bureaucracy, we know how to do bussines in eastern european countries ;)
our lanuguages are littlebit simillar.

Comon guys, we know that in Russia they have regime now, we had several years ago regime to ... which was atackig USA, UK and supporting USSR, and we as the Poles were waiting fore the oportunity to be free.

Whe have the balls to stick to our guns and fight for our interest in hard relationships with our neibours, but democracy (it is in our and their bussines) in russia isnt possible by forcing them.

There is one big difference betwen us, it is in our history ... Poles were always anarchistic, and we know what the freedom is ... Russians were autoritarive and their citizens dont even know how it is to be realy free (even in their own country)

You should add "IMHO" when you talk about democracy in Russia!!!

But in some points you are right... Poles are pronounced anarchists and it's very dangerous not only for them, but for those organisations in which Poland has a membership....It was real Alexander's I mistake when he included G. Duch. of Warsaw in Ru. Emp.

We dont care about their feeling toward us. Once their arrogance resulted in 50 years of our dominion in Germany...

I see that after the moment of hesitation, you have started talking your old speach again...

You just have shown us your human face, in my opinion it is not a shame for man to have human feelings.

When you think you are strange, you became realy strange. So head up ;)

You are not strange ...


I think instead thinking about your "controle zone" in Europe,you should buy some flowes for your girls, and try to make your own country better ;) (In my previous posts I have defined what in my opinion better is ... )

Live and give other people to live :)