Poland: we have an interesting history.

How come such an idea was brought into being? Whose idea was it?

liberum veto in bad meaning of this word occured in second part of XVII century. That is why we call XVI century Golden ;)

"It is commonly, and erroneously, believed that a Sejm was first disrupted by means of liberum veto by a Trakai deputy, Władysław Siciński, in 1652. In reality, however, he only vetoed the continuation of the Sejm's deliberations beyond the statutory time limit. It was only in 1669, in Kraków, that a Sejm was prematurely disrupted on the strength of the liberum veto, by the Kiev deputy, Adam Olizar."

"In the first half of the 18th century, it became increasingly common for Sejm sessions to be broken up by liberum veto, as the Commonwealth's neighbors — chiefly Russia and Prussia — found this a useful tool to frustrate attempts at reforming and strengthening the Commonwealth"

After 1764 the liberum veto practically went out of use: the principle of unanimity did not bind "confederated sejms," and so deputies formed a "confederation" (Polish: konfederacja) at the beginning of a session in order to prevent its disruption by liberum veto.

The liberum veto was abolished by the May 3rd, 1791, Constitution (adopted by a confederated sejm), which permanently established the principle of majority rule."

but it was to late ...

So Liberum Veto was a serious mistake with long lasting consequences.
How about Polish annexation of Czechoslovakian territory in 1938?

"Poland acquired the town of Těšín with the surrounding area (some 906 km², some 250,000 inhabitants, mostly Poles) and two minor border areas in northern Slovakia, more precisely in the regions Spiš and Orava. (226 km², 4,280 inhabitants, only 0.3% Poles). "( From Wikipedia)

Perhaps there was some ethnic reason for this, but surely the moment was the least propitious ever. How has this harmed Poland in the long run? Or have there been no visible consequences?

they stolen this part of Poland in 1920, we wated to do plebiscite because Poles were majority (now are not) but they rejected

Yes I know, but the moment was a terrible one to take such a step, and the "partners in the deed" were of the worst sort - at least one of them.
I did read somewhere however that the plebiscite actually took place, but that the Czechs brought people in from other parts of Czechoslovakia to make it appear that there were more Czechs than Poles in the area in question. Is this not true?

Czechoslovakia took this area by force (with real fighting as an agressor) in 1919, there was going to be plebiscite, which would have been easily won by Poles but It didn't happen and in 1920 the land was divided - Poland gave up over half of the land only because Bolsheviks were near Warsaw and Czechoslovakia only then stopped blocking transports with weapons for Poland. Also there wasn't any cooperation between Poland and 3rd Reich, simply Poland forced them to give back the land they stole when they were in a difficult situation and I don't see how It is worse than stealing the land when Poland was in a difficult situation. The whole thing is exploited by Polonophobs, who claim that Poland somehow deserved to be destroyed during WW2, because before It collaborated with Germans but that's not true - there wasn't any cooperation with Germans. I don't want to make It sound like "Poles have never done anything wrong" but If someone really want to blame Poland for something then there are much "better" cases than taking back own land.

As far as I know tsar, placed by Polish on Russian throne was shot with a cannon towards Poland at the end lol :) And that holiday is only celebrated since 2006, only to replace 1917 Revolution holiday. Though, I agree with you!

Hi all,

I agree the LV was an important factor in Poland's decline, but I dont think you can discount how outside powers reallly seized on this contsitutional right and used it to their own ends. Had Poland remained able to stop outside influence, I think the LV would have remained an excellent constitiuional tool, rather than a negative one.

Another interesting point was Poland's election of kings after the death of the last Jagiellonian king. Norman Davies (God's playground) and Jerzy Lukowski (Liberty's Folly) both have excellent analyses of Pol-Lit political structures, strengths and weaknesses and I highly recommend both.

I also recall that Jean Jacques Rousseau did a piece on Polish government and I think it's on the web. It was a good read too.

Cheers, Dan

Have you any sources for this?
These events rarely get mentioned - asking about them doesn't indicate anti-Polish feelings, simply interest. I'm very glad you have detailed both the aggression on Poland and the blocking of arms to Poland during the war with the Bolsheviks. It does put a totally different light on the whole issue.
What happened to this land after WWII?


I do believe Poland was inviting outside interest - but maybe that's my faulty memory.


And this is funny?

well, the fact, that he was actully SHOT from a cannon is actually funny.

If you’re interested in the subject matter here’s the source. Zaolzie

I remember reading this somewhere also. Was it the pretender Shuisky?

It was said that before firing him they dressed him in a silver and blue polyester bodysuit with a matching helmet. They didnt tell him they were going to pull away the safety net after they fired him. Eyewitnesses report that he did at least 3 quite spectacular somersaults before hitting the Kremlin wall, which at that stage was where the Polish/Muscovite border began.

Thanks, Piorun!

Well, complite set of all polish compexes