Poles should get rid of their ‘Katyn massacre complex’, wonder how?

I think killing was one thing but this artical and Russia's cold comments are over the top. How dare they suggest "Poles have a complex". I would love to know what the "cure" for this is as I will make a mint selling it?

Carol
"Poles simply have a complex and they should get cured"
FOREIGN AFFAIRS

Putin’s aide - Poles suffer from Katyn complex

Created: 13.05.2008 12:31


An aid to Vladimir Putin, Professor Sergei Karaganov, believes Poles should get rid of their ‘Katyn massacre complex’.



Professor Karaganov has told a press conference that unofficially, Russia apologised to Poland for the Katyn massacre a long time ago, writes Gazeta Wyborcza daily.



Karaganov said that Moscow refused to issue an official apology, as it believes Poland would demand reparations and compensation from Russia if it did so.



‘As far as I know, the documents were revealed a long time ago. Poles simply have a complex and they should get cured. We do admit that it was Stalin who killed [them]. Putin apologised for that and I do not quite understand why. Russians suffered because of Stalin, too. President Jeltsin’s parents died in the same way’, Karaganov told the press.

Professor Karaganov added that hypothetically, Russia could also demand reparations from Poland for the invasion of Moscow by Napoleon’s army.



The Katyn massacre, also known as the Katyń Forest massacre, was a mass execution of Polish citizens ordered by Soviet authorities on March 5, 1940. The estimated number of victims is about 22,000. (mj)

Readdress you rage for Georgians and Jews or for Soviet people (if you find them)....Russians are innocent

As are the Germans and every other country paying Holocaust checks?

so? it would be all right if Russia pay reparations. Its symple as that

Russia should pay, no matter that crime in Katyn wasn`t commited in the name of Russian nation but as act of commi maniacs

It is not our question, we have no intentions to pay other's debts.
And it is not a question of money because Russians (in contrast with Germans) never have proclamed that they are above other nations in genetic sense.



Pay yourself, I have no any free money for strangers, I could only give alms.

How sad is this, we did it but will not give "an offical apology" because it might cost us money? No one is asking Russia to pay Germany's dept, just their own. Not that money could bring back loved ones.

It's not, my grand parents didn't demand money from the Germans for bombing / destroying their properties and business.

As you say, no money can bring back a loved one and raking this over the coals 60 years on isn't good either, I have no idea what you hope to achieve by these posts!!! Have you ever actually been to Europe? People are getting on with it and have progressed quite nicely thanks - but it's people like you who bang on all the time that hold progress back.....wow is me, do you honestly think you are the only person who's history is mared by war....

And who will pay the 1,000s that died in St. Petersberg? Whole families that were lost!!!

The list is endless, but maybe it's your culture "where there's blame there's a claim" $$$$$$$$$$$$

Sad? I dont think so! It would be rather sad if we would pay money for some mythical deeds. Moreover, what do you think how this "an offical apology" should look like?

Human



Shelley I believe just yesterday you told me you are Jewish. Do you also feel the Holocaust victims should not be reimbursed? Can the Holocaust victim's get rid of their "Holocaust massacre complex"?

My grandfather should be reimbursed by poland for saving them in ww2

Saving vs. taking over just as Stalin planned with Hitler? The way I look at it Poland saved Soviet's from getting their but*'s kicked by Germany.

hehe....poles are the nation for whom we are obliged for our victory in war....

You are either completely insane or utterly moronic.

Given that in addition to your endless drivelling about Poland (i.e. the Catholics who lived in Poland) is the Christ of Nations, you also have a charming sideline in bigotry, I tend to think that you are moronic rather than insane.

Coming from someone else the comments might hurt. But Harry, coming from you, I don't think so. In case you didn't understand, you are in a forum for Polish history. I bet there is a nice warm Russian site with your name on it.

I don't see anything about "Catholic's" , "Christ of Nations" and "sideline in bigotry". In fact I believe if you read the artical
"We do admit that it was Stalin who killed [them]." they aggree.

Russian politicians read celinski on PF. So many times when something was mentioned on PF in close time sb in Russia was talking about it. Even if something is not important issue in Poland.

I was hoping this is the case. This is not just in Russia and Poland as many of the Polish went to start new lifes across this great big world.

From what I gather Russian's have heard what goverment wanted them to hear. I have friends from Russia, not many but now I see more coming to the States. They love it here and for the most part we aggree on history. I enjoy our friendship and we laugh together at how goverment make themselves look foolish.

Lets be real the artical says alot, we know we did it but won't put our all mighty buck on the line. Personally this is a very big victory for Poland as they say "We did it, we can be cold bast*rds and tell you to find a cure." Who really looks bad?

On second thoughts, maybe you are actually insane after all. If you can even begin to imagine that any politician anywhere gives a flying **** about the whining of Carol Celinski, you are utterly delusional.

You are to darn cute. Thanks sweetheart I needed to LOL. Truth be told Harry I wrote it for you because I know you look forward to reading my posts. Thank you, Carol

Where did you learn such manners? Let me guess, the EU?

well brate, payment can be arranged in many different ways

stop to make schemes with Germany and sell gas to Poland under beneficial prices. Then, Poles would get rid of politicians such is Tu Tu Tusk

My GG Grand father was Jewish and I personally and most of the Jewish people I know, feel it's respectful to remember these things, but it's better to look forward.



Arrrh...maybe it didn't happen aye? Maybe my friends grandmother put those tattoos on her own arm? Maybe she didn't see her 3 sisters and her mother die of starvation?...And BTW she doesn't have a complex she is greatful that she lived to marry a wonderful man have several children and grand children...She came to England with very little but lives in one the most expensives areas - Oh wait! maybe she is planning to take over the world!



I'd say quite stupid, rude, pathetic...god the list is endless....

Shelley,

You are upset and putting words in my mouth as I quote what the victim's of "Katyn" are being told and if you go back to the artical you will see this.

It is totally absurd to say there is a cure or have a "Katyn massacre complex". All I did was replace "Katyn" with "Holocaust". I can see now you feel what "Katyn" victims feel reading such insulting response to a barbaric actions. This has nothing to do with denying "Holocaust".

It will still take some years for my own complexes to be cured. Time for sure will help, as for me, the time is running out. In the not too distant future there would be no complex and no more me. My hope is that I will pass my complex to my son. I think we should be discussing the "German massacres complex" which lasted for five years and was more brutal. Both of these complexes were inflicted on me, for no fault of my ancestors, by our western neighbour. Germans were acting because of their supermen complex. The solution I see is to cure Germans of their complex by demanding crippling reparations. One can only read their discussion websites to see that they still are not cured.
As for the Russians and apologies, it was Stalin and his henchmen who destroyed everything what they considered to be a threat. Stalin and his gang harmed Russia more than it did Poland. Present day Russia does not consider itself to be a continuation of the Soviet Union. Possibly Georgia should apologise, after all Stalin ( Josef Dzugashwili) and Lawrentij Beria both were Georgians, it was Beria who prepared and Stalin who signed the execution order.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20080521/108025787.html

I understand ur anger Celinski but what difference does it make now? The killings were ordered by a lunatic under a previous regime, trudno. I think Wajda wanted to get some historical facts straight but not to incite the Polish nation to exact any form of BELATED revenge. His film was not a call-to-arms, more an attempt to get the truth out.

Good question, I see this as accountability, responsability and restitution should the family's want this. We are talking about thousands of fathers, grandfathers, husbands, son's killed for revenge, self beliefs and/or love of their country. Why should they not be equal at the very least to the treatment of Holocaust victim's?

Why not? I think it has to do with the fact that 2 lunatics had massive control (Stalin and Hitler) and brainwashed their men into carrying out their evil deeds. OK, many willing participants were brought to justice in the Nuremberg Trials but many were 'cogs in the wheel'. Those who were principally accountable are dead. Responsibility, well, Gorbachev told the truth when he didn't have to and was eager not to repeat such a debacle. Restitution (restitutio in integrum) can mean returning to the original position, that can never happen. Recompense is the most viable, practical alternative, if anything.

Because, unlike holocaust victims, Poles started to compialn too late, and they never used terror tactics against the British, nor did they bomb USS Liberty. Too often countries and nations gain respect if they are aggressive.

Good point z_darius, too little too late. I don't think that many Poles have the Katyn complex. Poland has to get away from passivity. It was lumbered with communism. What if Lech Wałęsa hadn't come along? What then? Communism left a legacy