What do Poles think about Turks?

Byzantine Empire spread civilization.Take an example.Cyrillus and Methodius.

I will conquer your country, kill you, take your everything but I will spread civilization ok? İt is really very funny.
Like USA say she brings democracy, civilization to Iraq. Iraq nation is very happy that USA brought its civilization and know how to Iraq. Iraq can make her own space program in 20 years :))))

What has Iraq war to do with saints Cyrillius and Methodius ?
Do you even know who they are ??

You don't understand what I say. Saints Cryllius and Methodius are important personalities. But can you say because of them Byzantium Empire did nothing bad to the nations of the countries which she conquered ?
This is the point.

soooo, what has US-Iraq war got to do with Byzantine empire

You have to read my mail # 372. You will understand the issue.

ok, now I have read it. Have to say that comparing Byzantine empire and US empire doesnt work. USA hasnt been expanding its territories since the Spanish war. In fact they want to get out of Iraq ASAP. Sure USA is fighting for its interests, every country,big or small, looks after its interests, but this has nothing to do expansionism.

Hyvaa paivaa, Max!

Rather like Sweden's Vasa Empire overtaking Finland during it's colonial days.-:)
That was more than 'expansionism', that was imperialism, for which reasons you all know Swedish better than English.

I am very a glad that someone non-Finn knows about these issues :)

Byzantine Empire built Constantinopol,Nis,Belgrade,Varna,Plovdiv and thousands of cities all over Balkans and Asia Minor.Thessaloniki grew and became the second richest city in Europe after Constantinopol.
All the ancient documents you read now,the works of Plato,Aristotle,Thukydides were saved by byzantine monks who wrote and rewrote them again.
Byzantine mathematicians taught mathematics to Arabs and byzantine philosophers brought the works of classical Greeks to the West in order for the Renassaince to start.

Do you know El Greco?He started painting in byzantine style.
Do you know Agia Sofia in Istanbul?Who built it?

Ahh Maxxx my man.. you have no idea how we want out of this stupid stuff.

Southern,
How many Goths Byzantine Empire killed in Arcadius and 1. Leon times ?
Thousands of Goths were living in Anatolia in that times and because of a Byzantine way of genocide they all killed.

In which way modern Byzantine nation killed their emperor Andronikos Komnenos in Hipodrome? Very barbarous''.

Yes and do you know why?Because 5 years before he had thrown the Venezians and Genovese out of Constantinopol.They never forgot it and when they found the chance to revenge,they did.
Everything was also caused by the invasion of normand army which had already conquered Salonica and headed for Constantinopol.Andronicus had prepared army which waited the Normands in Thrace and actually destroyed them in a battle some days after Andronicus death.
So the point is what did the Normands have to do in Byzantium?Did they have any rights to invade?Or were they inspireds,supported and paid by the Venezians and Genovese who 20 years after managed to get the whole crusade turn against Byzantium?

As for the fate of Normands,you can study all the byzantine-normand wars from the times of Alexius Comnenus and what these heros did to the population of Salonica and Balkans.
Of course they did not like the sicelian evening when their presence in Italy ended in an abrupt way in 1267.

Of course Byzantines used barbarian methods.They cut noses and blinded their enemies.One Emperor even had a cut nose,he was called Konstantine the cut nose.
Emperor Roman was blinded after his defeat by Turks in Mazikert in 1071.

But we should not forget that among the nations in byzantine empire were Armenians,Georgians and Bulgarians except from Greeks and these nations are not famous for their delicacy.

What about Goths Genocide ?

Van you elaborate?As far as I remember these Goths who had lived there since roman times(Galatia minor) were assimilated.The places where they lived were still called Galatia during byzantine Empire rule.
I have to search about it because there is no obvious reason why they should have been killed.
Byzantium never commited genocide,it only transported folks to other places where they could not be threatening(like Stalin's policies in USSR).
It also brought some folks to the region like Albanians(unfortunately),Varages(of skandinavian origin),some Slavs(to increase population density in Balkans) etc.

It is the same for Armenians in 1915 in Ottoman Empire.
But our enemies are trying to call it genocide which is not.

But what of the lasting effects of the power balance between Russia and Sweden. The Finnish (Karelian) population just over the border seems a bit thin on the ground. Empires can be bad things, but the lasting effects may be very different. I don't know too much about Sweden in the old days, but various empires have left their marks, some good and some bad. I can listen to reggae music and eat curry for example.

Osiol:) I'd be much more concerned with both Sweden's as well as little Finland's treatment of its Saami (commonly known as 'Lapp') minority to the North than about the Karelian population in Western Russia! The Finns too have a most problematic history of their own, quite apart from how they fared under Swedish domination for several centuries. Their position during WWII vis-a-vis Germany, despite the heroic stance of Mannerheim against the Soviet invasion, remains a serious issue in their past. Like Norway, Finland didn't exactly stand up politically against Hitler.

Maxx, I have many Finnish acquaintances and all of them speak excellent Swedish. My Finnish is rudimentary at best, but I have basic survival skills. English might be a poor choice, save perhaps at a class hotel in the center of Halsingfors, oops, Helsinki.-:) LOL

I'd worry too about the treatment of Sami in Russia too. Finland's stance during WWII is a bit of a dodgy spot. I think they were fighting a different battle which got them aligned on the wrong side.


Are we back to talking about the moomins again?


A couple of swear-words is all I know. And the word for hedgehog might be "sili". At least that's how a very nice Finnish girl I used to know said it (roughly). No, she didn't say it roughly - she sounded very sweet!

Actually the Saami are doing quite good nowadays in Scandinavian area. As for Karelians, they are small people who eventually will be Russianized. It is neither "good" nor "bad", just part of natural process of cultures absorbing to bigger ones.
Culture´s death is not always result of genocide etc.



it sure is. I am not proud of everything my country has done.


:)
Välkommen ! Tervetuloa !

Tack, detsamma till dig!-:)

Unfortunately, we must switch back to English now. I can see though that you and I appear to be on the same 'homepage' (hemsida, no not a literal translation)..

Look forward to continued pleasant chatting.

I believe the topic can also include ''What's your vote for the EU membership of Turkey ? and why?

Rock r u in Poland?hemşerim:)

Türkiye'deyim.

whats your connection with Poland?Türkçe yazınca siliyorlar..

Iyi gunler!!-:) Hos geldiniz PF-forum'da.

Nice to have members of the Turkish contingent here among us to offset the questionable remarks of our fellow posters.

Marek, almost nothing wrong in your Turkish in the first sentence. Only it will be ''PF forum'a''. Congratulations !

Turkish language is relatives of Finnish and Hungarian in Europe. As these 3 nations and Bulgars live together in ancient times in the area of Chuvash and Tatar together.

For example :

As far as I know Mikan means Mika's in Finnish
In Turkish Mikanın means Mika's.

Menawhile what's your vote end why?

My Vote: NO
One of the problems with Turks is that our opinion of Turks is biased by those Turks who allready live in Germany, Netherlands, England and other european countrys since their birth. Turks I know from Turkey are "better". But how much better all things considered?


news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7108607.stm

I was shocked that after the missionaries were killed one heard the townsfolks of the town it occured in saying, that they to some degree supported the murderers.

There is a strong nationalism in this country and I doubt that the majority agrees to enter the EU - both is good for them, but would be a threat to Europe. And most of the turks that will then leave their country will be Turks from the east and not those from Istanbul or Izmir.

Yarin tesekkurler!--::)

My vote is YES to allow Turkey to join, but solely for practical reasons of Turkey's larger and above all younger population, a needed workforce in a European population that is both rapidly decreasing as well as aging.

A perfect fit both culturally and spiritually? Hardly. A necessary one?? Absolutely.

So glad you have no say in that matter! :)

Oh and thanks to the Irish there will be no further enlargement of the EU (Croatia being a possible exception)...
A positive outcome at least!

If the Turks had one ounce pride left they would refrain from further begging with
the Europeans!

URL



Will never going to happen, period!