Polish-German Relations in the Present

This is an important point. As with my posts asking about Polish/Ukraine taking responsability. If Poland does not take a strong stand asking for resolve in Ukraine and Russia, it leaves Poland a sitting duck for everyone to keep making them pay. Victimizing Poland over and over. It is Poland that was raped and until we can open up the past and demand accountability, Poland will continue to pay the price of silence. Poland is free now and needs a strong goverment that will stand up for the Polish people. They may not be the most popular ones on the block but after the truth gets cleared and truth is on the table, Poland will stand tall. Carol, USA

I strongly disagree. It is because of views like yours Poland always get its a$$ kicked. I say we should for once SIT DOWN and start being realistic about our situation in Europe. Poland is not a super-power and its foreign policy should be more realistic.

Your view reminds me of Polish government in 1939. They would “stand tall” to everybody around and they were first to leave the country.

- What specifically do you mean by this?



- You strongly disagree that Poland should have a strong government standing up for the Polish people?

Are you Russian or German? Carol

You sir, are a coward, and the slime of the earth. What possible benefits do you see from SITTING DOWN, as you put it. To be a coward just like yourself? What does realistic mean?

So you're telling me that after WW2, under Communist rule, Poland should have shut up, because they got their ass kicked?

Please disregard this creep ladies and gentleman, for he is but another liberal coward who does not know history.

If "standing up for Polish people" means asking for trouble/making enemies all over the Europe & world then I don't want this kind of government.



???

Not sure if this was mentioned in the past 23 pages, but apparantly Poland has been donating a lot of blood to Germans lately. i saw this on the news but no article ...sorry.

what a quandary... much as i would like to disagree and call you the slime of the earth i do think you are actually right



of course poland needs a strong government, but not one which is going to damage its place in europe and the eu - polands last government was making it the laughing stock - lets hope this one takes a more positive approach



damn thats twice ive agreed with you - better call your mum a crack ho before people start getting the wrong idea

A laughing stock for who? For the communist slime it was destroying? For the pensions it was taking away from them? For trying to somehow rid the govermnent of corruption?
Who do you trust now? Tusk? He is doing his best to pull Poland back into the Russian and German spheres of influence. You think that is a good thing?

What are your beliefs behind that thought? So you say we were a laughing stock. Are you talking in terms of the Kaczynski's physical characteristics and how they were seen? I.e Polish carofel in German newspaper. Is that all you care about? What others think of us? You sir, are also slime and do not deserve to call yourself Polish. People like you, and their sucking up to other countries is what is ruining our nation.

do you think the fact that we want to solve this issue means that we look for trouble ?


we proposse "zero option" we close history and move forward ... if Germans want to count money we can count (I would like to see balance) ... maybe small miniority of Germans want to do it but it is really annoying ... so official agreement would be the best solution





we cooperate on many levels and cooperation is really good ... but on some levels we just cant cooperate (look on previous pages)

when a country's president is referred to as a potato its normally an indication that someone is laughing somewhere



i wouldnt dream of calling myself polish, perish the thought, but i do have a vested interest in the country and would like to see it prosper

And you sir, should read my post, try to understand it, and then reply instead of calling me names.



That means representing what is real, not abstract or ideal. The reality is that Poland is not a super-power and it does not have military, economic nor political power to make any demands and threats.



NO. What I was trying to say is that Poland should have reliable allies, strong economic, military and political position in Europe (and outside) to be able to back up its demands.

"Standing up" just because it sounds good and "tough" is just plain stupid.



a) how do you know I am liberal?

b) stop calling me coward

c) who are you to tell other people to disregard me?

So it's true, you are just worried about physical appearance. The president was laughed at more so because he was quite nationalist in his policies, and gave Germany and other EU countries a hard time to try and get what he wanted, what was the best for his country.



Yes, that is true to some degree. However, if Poland rolled over and let herself be raped by other, stronger countries in the EU, there would be no progress whatsoever, for without demands and some kind of self-identity, then there is no moving forward. Frankly, Poland will never be a "superpower" as you put it, and in your belief, never be in a position for bargaining. Then what is she now? A unrecognized tract of land? Please, don't make me laugh. With your logic, then Germany, Russia and England would be ruling Europe and the rest of us "little guys" would be at their mercy.



And once again, you show you know nothing about the country of Poland. Reliable allies? When in their history have they had reliable allies? They've been surrounded by these powers all throughout history, and it is in a Poles blood to make his demands, no matter how "weak" his backup is.

Furthermore, you commented on how "Standing up" because it sounds tough is plain stupid. You have nothing to base this on. Tell me, do you even consider yourself a Pole, or a generic European? Are you even proud of your heritage, your history? Have you no shame saying that Standing Up is plain stupid? What do you consider sounding good, and tough?



a) You have it smeared all over your posts, pro-EU creep
b) I will, when you stop acting like one
c) I go as far as to say I acted wrong by saying this, I do not in fact, have that privelage

I feel the damage was already done. Now Poland can speak up and you say to not rock the boat. Maybe the laughter you are hearing is from the ones not having to be held responsable.
Poland needs to show back bone now. Funny that this is showing up in here vs. Russia or Ukraine. Reguardless of where it shows up Poland must insist that the ones responsable step up.

The war is over now lets act our age and demand respect. Our family fought and real blood covered the ground. Everyone knows the truth and yet still think they can victimise Poland. Not if we put the truth before the world.



Who really cares about name calling. Read history and being called "a potatoe" is not to important. Having your country taken by communism and killed looks rather differant.



That is just being rude. I am Polish and proud of my people and country.

Carol, USA

thats just the sort of feeble reply i expect from you



poland doesnt need to get people backs up



we all know you are hugely proud of your heritage; that you have a chip on your shoulder and that you dwell in the past rather than work for the future

Sure. Progress. I'm glad you mentioned it. This "standing up" has brought us nothing but progress! Starting from partitions, through all insurrections & uprisings, WWI, WWII and over 40 years of communist rule. Nothing but pure progress.



Are they not leading Europe now? Are they not the strongest countries in Europe now? Where is Poland? What is our position in Europe now?



We have never had any reliable allies but we need them.

I don’t know anything about your blood but it is not in my nature to be unrealistic.

ok so maybe what do we have now


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7138012.stm






I would like to see Brits reaction on project of museum of UK genocide made by RAF ... without showing bombardments of London ...






from the other hand there were succesful actions too all in all without resistnce we wouldnt speak Polish we wouldnt have our culture ...

Would you call it progress though?

I am proud (just as you do) that we had courage to defend ourselves when there was no hope for victory. But I will not call it "progress" and I don't want history repeat itself just because some idiot wants to "stand up" and get us in trouble again.

I dont know if we can call it progress ;)

but the fact is that those Poles who became submissive later changed into Germans or Russians ... and maybe that is why nowadays swashbuckler DNA ;) is so noticable in our nation ;))) you have to be rebeliant form your nature to be Pole :-)

Poland superpower.I would like that.

Name calling , you are how old? So nice to be in an adult world. Seems to me you don't understand the word freedom. Do you see the claims coming into Poland? I guess you think Poland paying them off non stop is ok? Carol

Poles I admit you.You have guts.Other countries wouldn't even think of challenging european godfathers.

They are just people just like us. Carol

lol EU godfathers are France Germany UK the strongest countries with the bigest influence ... ;) it wasny about race/nation

People?Just plain people?Carol I think you are disrespectful.

I apologize for using word "idiot" but it doesn't change my view. I think this "stand up" approach to our foreign policy is just unrealistic and may bring a lot of trouble for Poland.



I see those claims but there are other ways of dealing with such matters. Other than “stand up” approach.



Wrong guess.

I am sure this will help? Poor Germans having to leave a country they thought they could take. Carol


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4788167.stm



Calm down. It's not like I called them potatoes. Carol



Someone has to so we can have a brighter future. Bummer for you Bubba opps I mean BubbaWoo. I don't think you really want me to give the low down on you.

Carol

I'm not trying to glorify anything.....but in general people can be very outspoken here in the US, even if they have extreme, unbalanced viewpoints, and no one rushes to "put them in a corner". Unless they are in the public media, such as radio announcers....then they do catch some heat! When this happens it always causes a big argument about freedom of speech versus defamation and slander. From Wiki: In the United States, government is broadly forbidden by the First Amendment of the Constitution from restricting speech. Jurists generally understand this to mean that the government cannot regulate the content of speech, but that it can address the harmful effects of speech through laws such as those against defamation or incitement to riot.





I believe there is good and bad in all people, regardless of race, creed, etc. I think that my personal beliefs do not reflect, nor or represented by the US governments policies or actions. I was trying to say that as an American looking "in" at Polish-German relations from the ouside, maybe I can see some things that Poles and Germans don't see so easily, because of their strong, intense emotional involvement. When strong emotions prevail, often objective reasoning gets drowned out a bit. We usually think clearer with cool heads.


No southern, I had not read that. It sounds typical of warfare though. :(



I saw this too....I understand that the world cup was a bit of a revelation for Germans because it did provide a reason to be proud as a nation, rather than be ashamed, of their homeland for the first time in a very big way. That should help to move people forward.



Hmmm....I can put myself in many different shoes, and see things from another's perspective. I am appreciative of that ability....it has taught me a lot. When and where do I see the action of the "victim role". Well, in comments and attitudes by some members here on this forum. And even in you, Puzzly. At times you are very convinced that people hate Poles, even when they don't! :)

Then you have not heard that the order was carried out.One million impregantions in Berlin by soviet soldiers.Slavic genes change east Germany forever.

unfortunately the ones quoted here are almost all lying in the past and therefor hardly can be changed.
time to look into the forward direction...


these are two different pairs of shoes! if every gov in europe would have acted like this there would be no EU in the first place...


and then there was celinski somewhere asking if i am russian or german...
well. you probably followed this thread quite a while than you will know the answer already...
i am german...