PolishForums   Culture and Customs of Poland 
Home . Polls . Search Witamy,  [Guest 38.103.63.58]  Latest Discussions . Unanswered Posts . Random Topic
 Please register or login below:

 » Username  » Password 
Polish Forums / Poland Politics & History /

Polish-German Relations in the Present


  «« 1 2 3 ... 20 21 22 23 24 25 [26]
posts: 768
z_darius
  Dec 15, 07, 15:00  #751

Quoting: shopgirl
I'm talking about families (mostly women and children) that had to flee because they were on the wrong side of a border (any border) when their governments went to war. I can absolutely relate to the idea of having your life torn apart about by governments that don't really care about their people.

True that governments mostly don't care. But you need to remember that most Germans were happilly marching east to take over someone else's lands, gladly accepted slave workers from Poland, cattle, manufactured goods and the promise of the 1000 Year Reich.

Sure, some were in disagreement, but I can;t imagine that only a small group of Germans was all it took to support the biggest slaugher in human history.

The only true German vistims were small kids. The parents got what they desrved, and thus they are, in my mind, ultimately responsible fot the suffering of their own offspring.

 
Member
Posts: 2905
Joined: Oct 18, 07
Lukasz
  Dec 15, 07, 15:19  #752

I dont see the reason of this discussion German victims ... pfff they have choosen Hitler in elections and were very happy to be superior race ... AND WANTED TO EXTEMIATE ALL POLES ... BUT FAILED ...

 
Member
Posts: 2580
Joined: Sep 1, 07
shopgirl
  Dec 15, 07, 15:31  #753

Quoting: z_darius
The only true German vistims were small kids. The parents got what they desrved, and thus they are, in my mind, ultimately responsible fot the suffering of their own offspring.

In saying this you somehow seem to know the personal beliefs and their allegiances of every parent who "got what they deserved". How are you able to do that? Sorry....I 'm not so confident as you.

 
Member
Posts: 1763
Joined: Apr 6, 07
Polson
  Dec 15, 07, 15:32  #754

Quoting: Lukasz
were very happy to be superior race


Who wouldn't be in their situation... :)

 
Member
Posts: 2278
Joined: May 9, 07
shopgirl
  Dec 15, 07, 15:45  #755

Quoting: Lukasz
pfff they have choosen Hitler in elections and were very happy to be superior race ...

That is a gross oversimplification of history and fact. It takes a lot of work and effort to look more closely at a situation...more than most people are willing to do. There is always more to the story than is seen on the surface, and with the amount of information available from a wide variety of sources on this very well documented subject it is not hard to find.

How easy it is to just say pfff and toss out another stereotype.
But it happens all the time....

 
Member
Posts: 1763
Joined: Apr 6, 07
z_darius
  Dec 15, 07, 20:15  #756

Quoting: shopgirl
In saying this you somehow seem to know the personal beliefs and their allegiances of every parent who "got what they deserved".

I never wrote "every parent". Read my post again and debate my comments, not the comments you think are mine.

 
Member
Posts: 2905
Joined: Oct 18, 07
Patrycja19
  Feb 2, 08, 00:44  #757

ok since we are talking Polish and German relations in a Polish forum. and
Brat is saying some things I never thought he would say,, lets get on with it
shall we... in a thread more appropriate...

 
Member
Posts: 2987
Joined: Oct 31, 06
Matyjasz
  Feb 2, 08, 01:30  #758

Beat on the Brat with a baseball bat! ;)

 
Member
Posts: 1535
Joined: Jul 20, 06
Bratwurst Boy
  Feb 2, 08, 02:42  #759

Matyjasz wrote:
Beat on the Brat with a baseball bat! ;)


What did I say wrong?

 
Member
Posts: 3800
Joined: Apr 2, 07
Matyjasz
Edited by: Matyjasz  Feb 2, 08, 03:40  #760

Bratwurst Boy wrote:
What did I say wrong?



It would be easier to say what you did right. :)

Never mind though, I was just singing. Don't you know The Ramones? You know, that American band, or are you listening only to Euro Dance and Russian contemporary music. :P

 
Member
Posts: 1535
Joined: Jul 20, 06
Bratwurst Boy
  Feb 2, 08, 03:42  #761

The Ramones? I've heard of them...but I have no idea about russian contemporary music...really not...

 
Member
Posts: 3800
Joined: Apr 2, 07
celinski
  Feb 7, 08, 07:39  #762

I found this artical very interesting.


Study: German Children Born During World War II Not Yet Over Trauma
February 4, 2008 12:56 p.m. EST

"The psychiatrist explained the painful war memories were locked in the children's memories and stayed in their adult subconscious while they tried to live normal lives. Now, as they near retirement age, with no jobs to distract their attention, the memories resurface. The likely symptoms are depression, panic attacks and heart ailments."

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7009927468

 
Member
Posts: 2688
Joined: Nov 14, 07
shopgirl
Edited by: shopgirl  Feb 7, 08, 23:55  #763

z_darius wrote:
Sure, some were in disagreement, but I can;t imagine that only a small group of Germans was all it took to support the biggest slaugher in human history.


I like this quote and I believe in it.
Margaret Mead
Never doubt that a small group of committed individuals can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.


Whether committed people choose to focus on positive change or negative change, I have seen in my own experience that small groups work better. They communicate better and organize better. Large groups are hard to control...

I have been reading a book by British historian Giles MacDonogh that was published 2007, called "After the Reich". I ran across an interesting bit of info in the preface and wanted to share it.

"It is true that some of the old men and a lot of the women hat voted for Hitler, but it should be recalled once again that he never acheived more than 37.4% of the vote in a free election, and in the last one he was down to 33.1%. That meant that, even at his most popular, 62.6 %of the German electorate were unmoved by his programme".

He goes on to say that Hilter's campaign did not openly propose slaughter of European Jews, or the desire to confront Russia, or to enslave the Slavs.

Even with only veiled allusions to his dark desires in his speeches, best spotted in hindsight, Hilter was not a favored leader.


He says that to make all Germans responsible (women old men, children and new born babies) is using the Allied weapon of collective guilt. Collective guilt applied by the Allies deprived Germans of their rights, and kept them at the mercy of the Allies until they could figure out what to do with them. He speaks about the children and accountability...there were boys as young as twelve in the Hiltler Youth. At what age should a child be punished as an adult, as responsible for his actions?

Just wanted to share some of the ideas that I have been contemplating.

I like this quote too...

Victor Frankl
We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of human freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances - to choose one's own way.


 
Member
Posts: 1763
Joined: Apr 6, 07
janekb
  Mar 6, 08, 17:26  #764

Shopgirl,
There is a difference in character between Slavs and Germans. One can notice that while both are able to commit any imaginable atrocity, the Slavs are more individualistic and spontaneous. In addition being very mistrustful of any authority (for historical reasons) on a long run not willing to follow even the most charismatic ruler.
Germans, on the other hand are known for their perseverance and obedience. That's why Germans make an exceptionally good soldiers, extension of the machine concentrating on perfect execution of the given task without analyzing nature of this task. Historically their rulers served them well, there was no reason to develop mistrust toward government.
These are generalizations, but national character is formed through generations and this is in essence how I see it.
I do not know what is your national background, if you are an American you will have difficulty to follow it since US do not have national ethos (except for moneymaking).

 
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: Feb 14, 08
jones101
  Mar 6, 08, 17:34  #765

janekb wrote:
There is a difference in character between Slavs and Germans.


Yep....bank balances.

 
Member
Posts: 582
Joined: Jan 14, 08
Kowalski
  Mar 7, 08, 00:11  #766

When leaving Szczecin toward Germany one can see a put up road sign that says "Achtung! Alles verbotten - 2 km" ( Warning! All forbidden - 2 km).

On that note: we had recently incidents with German police issuing tickets to polish drivers for not having proper (in Germany) first aid medical kit. On polish side our police was ticketing German cars for not having fire distinguisher required. Both sides came to terms already....
Poles living in Loeknitz, Germany (some 40 km from Poland) are often targeted by local right wingers, to the point of many selling of property and moving back to Poland (after media)

 
Member
Posts: 578
Joined: Sep 13, 06
Bratwurst Boy
  Mar 7, 08, 01:16  #767

Kowalski wrote:
road sign that says "Achtung! Alles verbotten


Ha ha ....good joke!

 
Member
Posts: 3800
Joined: Apr 2, 07
Crow
Edited by: Crow  Mar 8, 08, 03:45  #768

Kowalski wrote:
When leaving Szczecin toward Germany one can see a put up road sign that says "Achtung! Alles verbotten - 2 km" ( Warning! All forbidden - 2 km).

hm, when you mentioned road signs

There is a town in central Serbia- Kragujevac

after WWII, on the approaching road to town, people of Kragujevac placed the road sign: ``It is forbidden to any German to enter this town.``

I heard, these days, somebody mentioned idea about placing similar sign on the approaches to Kragujevac, even on all crosroads on Serbian border.

 
Member
Posts: 2204
Joined: Feb 14, 07
 
  «« 1 2 3 ... 20 21 22 23 24 25 [26] Similar Threads | Latest | Unanswered | Random  Go UPtop of page

Home / Poland Politics & History /


Only registered and logged-in users may post here. Please login or register.

Newer thread in this forum: Older thread in this forum:
Some Poles burning American flag Why are so many Polish political leaders midgets?


78 users online in the last hour [Guests - 48 / Members - 30] All times are CST (GMT -6)

Home . Latest Discussions . Unanswered Posts . Random Topic . Statistics
© 2005-08 PolishForums.com | About Us | Contact Us | Privacy, TOS, Rules | Poland Advertising |