Polish-German Relations in the Present

That`s the good one

Magnat, so according to you this type tries to prove that Poland is 'fascinating'? (Oh boy!) Specifically in which postings? Quote them.

What do you mean by'Polish vetos [sic] are not supported by any arguments'? What alleged vetoes do you mean?

The hacks have been scribbling that only the Czechs support us with 'the square root system' of vote. Never heard of Hungarians, Lithuanians, etc. supporting us too.

Who has allegedly said Poland is a threat to European democracy?

So to you going to a Polish forum is like going to a Russian forum? Why, of all the world nations, do you compare us to the Russians?

What's so brave about this type coming here and spitting out abuse? - He knows that TODAY he is allowed to do it and can get away with it; when he wasn't allowed and couldn't, e.g. 15 years ago, he kept quiet, out of cowardice.

His today 'bravery' is a symptom that his own government and media psychopaths encourage him and those like him to act so.

Thus his conduct in this forum is an expression of his German cowardice, not of bravery.
:)

Hmm... I think you didn't understand sarcasm. Somehow you received everything in opposite, and it makes me think whether my writing is sloppy or whatever.

"Fascinating" was referring to Bratwurts Boy, not his posts, and I completely agree that it is his media who make him post like that. Nevertheless, I still think a person always has his own mind and if he decides to write these opinions knowing he will be attacked, it is silly, but also brave. :)

"What do you mean by'Polish vetos [sic] are not supported by any arguments'? What alleged vetoes do you mean?"

Bratwurst Boy was talking about Poland vetoing the EU peak last month due to Russian embargo on Polish meat. I wasn't expressing my opinion, I was semi-quoting him. For ME, the veto DID have arguments.

Hungarians, Lithuanians etc. do support Poland unoficially, because they have no balls. I agree, only Czechs did it in public. Although I think they will freak out after Merkel or Sarkozy come to Prague. :]

I think Bratwurst Boy did, didn't he? I'm sorry if not, I will be more than happy to be informed he did not say Poland is a threat to democracy. :]

Ekhm... I'm Polish. I don't compare Poles or myself to Russians, who I rather dislike. Never. You didn't get a joke. Ok, it was weird, but I think you should. I was referring to Polish eagerness to defend their opinions to Russian eagerness to kill their enemies.

"What's so brave about this type coming here and spitting out abuse? - He knows that TODAY he is allowed to do it and can get away with it; when he wasn't allowed and couldn't, e.g. 15 years ago, he kept quiet, out of cowardice." I completely agree and I am very glad he feels safe to discuss things with us.

In conclusion, I don't understand why you attacked me, if I was supporting you and dissing him all along... You thought I was saying what I think, but I was saying what I read from him. :]

Magnate, okay, whatever. I like honest people and honest debates. Many Poles (and othert Europeans) are yet to learn such honesty.

Don't feel bad, it's good that you sacrificed your time, even for such a trivial/endless discussion like one with that German guy. :]

To humiliate Bratwurst boy does not mean to insult Europe.What is Europe by the way?

southern,

I will tell you something, man.

I think that Serbs and Poles are more Western then Germans and Francks. Yes, realy. In fact, Germans/Francks (etc false Europeans) even aren`t Western (God, forbid- BDW/to put cross on myself). Slavs are last representatives of original Western culture.

:)

the new Beetle was maunufactured at VW's Puebla assembly plant in Mexico so they were poorly made and not very reliable

Being a Polish American, I support Poland having nuclear weapons aimed at both Germany and Russia. I think that the Germans and Russians should both pay dearly for the crap that they've given the Poles over the years. The Poles are considered to be more 'Nordish' than either the ugly, dark looking Germans and Asian looking Russians. Let's protect our fatherland and exact revenge on the German and Russian barbarians that invaded and intruded on the innocent Poles over the last 3 centuries.

Keep voting in America to pressure Putin to back down off of his political soapbox. Support nuclear weapons in central Europe. Josef Pulsudski would've wanted it this way if it weren't for the wimpy French. Attack Germany and Russia now before it's too late!

we should be aiming at peace.

QUOTE: Polish-German Relations in the Present
Looks like they are preety well dead from this thread :(

True.
Its hard to say something really objective about that topic, cuz everybody has got different experiences. Sure, we can say something about political lines, but i think that this topic needs more personal feelings and opinion.
I met Germans, when they came to my school cuz of language exchange. Some just ingenious person's idea was to take then to Oświęcim (camp). I didnt expect anyway how they will react. Laugh, jokes, complete indifference for tragedy, which happened there. They even start to take photos there with big ****** smiles on their german faces. Really weird.
On october im gonna visit Germany. I hope that family, with which ill live is different. I cant say about all Germans that they are bad, only cuz of one experience.
Whats about u guys? I wish to hear some stories ^^

Yes I agree with alot of that....I lived in Germany for 12 years, and was based not far from the Bergen Belsen Camp.... Anyway we went on a trip there one weekend and they had a school party of German children visiting at the same time, maybe 12-14 year olds......and you couldn't help but notice the complete lack of any interest or compassion on there behalf!!.....They were more interested in what we were doing than anything else!....They just looked bored with the whole experience, but on the other hand on a day to day basis....the Germans were the same as anyone else!

I have to agree....visits to such a camp is at least once compulsory to a german school class and I remember mine...and we were bored too (and to onlookers surely rude too).

But it wasn't because of lack of compassion or hate of jews or such...kids that age get bored easily...they make fun of museums visits too...
It's no bad intention...but these visits are compulsory....a duty...and as such they are seen by the teachers and the kids...

I think it's a wrong way to handle that because it accomplishes nothing (with most kids anyway) but still....it's an ordered duty so every year another class goes visiting ...*shrug*

I don't think the Polish-German relations are dead. How could they be dead? We're such close neighbours. The relations have actually just started - really started, that is, because what was before was just something totally fake and dishonest. Personally, I am optimistic about the future of the relations. Our politicians can communicate with each other very well. And no amount of hate from the media psychopaths, who try to set our nations against one another, seems really able to change it.

PS. And yes, the Polish-German relations could be much worse if types of Cohn-Bendit's ilk started ruling Germany. Cohn-Bendit - a Marxist hooligan in the 1960s in France, isn't German, by the way.

Also, yes, Poles and Germans aren't nations who have, ahem, lots of amicability towards each other. But this can be improved in time, I think.

I think that the Germans should govern Europe along with the British and French.

By the way, when as a kid in communist Poland I was visiting Auschwitz along with my schoolmates, I was bored too. And depressed. Some of the kids, in order to cheer up, joked stupidly, as kids do in all places where they shouldn't, e.g. churches.

On the other hand, such visits have an important purpose and value, of course. Lots remains in one from them.

I didnt say but those Germans were in age 18 -19, so i think its not right to be so unripe and trivial.

Just a question:

Did you ask those Germans if they wanted to go to the camp?
Were they at least a tiny bit interested?
Or was it more like: "They are Germans so we show them the camp! They HAVE to be interested!"
Did you expect a feeling like after pushing a "emotions-button"???

Well they should show some interest!



so you didn't get blown up with your computer after all

From the looks of things probably this statement is true. A little bit awkward way to great guests.... but still, a well mannered person would not react the way they did, no?

I agree

Why???

And if they show it just to please you would it make you feel better???


*can still be blown off...the danger is not over yet* :)

It is rather awkward and I wouldn't be surprised if the behaviour of the Germans was a rude answer to this awkward behaviour of the hosts....

No,

But I think young people should be taught the important points in history, especially things in living memory, in such a way they cannot be ignored.

When I was about 14, I had a teacher at school who brought in some old home movies, she warned us that some of the content was not nice and not to tell other teachers she had shown it to us. the film was from the early war years, it was made by some German people who were against Hitler. One piece of film showed a man protesting against the Nazis, it then showed him being dragged into an empty building and being shot, it certainly left a mark on me.

I think for young people to say they are just not interested, is an insult to the memory of all the people who died.

There were no more alive Jews in the camp,why Germans should be interested?

Maybe German children are different, for many years WWII was not on the history curriculum but it is now, when I visited Auschwitz in February there were English children on field study trips and they were nothing but respectful and I saw a few with tears in their eyes...so I have to dissagree with the above so strongly..compassion is not an age thing, rather a personal thing.

You are quite correct, niether were their any living Polish or Hungarian or Gypsis or any other of those that Hitler exterminated, the point to these trips is to show people and to make them remember, in the hope that it will never happen again.

Same as the Killing Fields in Cambodia, atrocities in the 19 / 20th century have been too many.

Do you know that german children visit graves of Wehrmacht soldiers in Poland with a growing interest?

No, and to be honest I really dont care, they weren't that good since they were defeated and also they were a disgrace to the armed forces, they executed POWs and to me they were just cowards!

Wehrmacht units killed thousands of Polish civilians during the 1939 September campaign through executions and terror bombing of cities. After the end of hostilities, during the Wehrmacht's administration of Poland, which went on until October 25, 1939, 531 towns and villages were burned, and the Wehrmacht carried out 714 mass executions and a number of other crimes. Altogether, it is estimated that 16,376 Polish civilians had perished. Approximately 60% of these crimes were committed by the Wehrmacht.[1]


Atrocities during the Battle of France

Between May 25 and May 28 1940, the German Wehrmacht committed several war crimes in and near the small village of Vinkt. Hostages were taken and used as human shields. As the Belgian army continued to resist, farms were searched (and looted) for more hostages who were later executed. In all 86 civilians were executed, but the total death toll was probably 140. The reason for the carnage is unclear

Oh yeah thats something to be proud of !