The Polish language - it's bloody hard!

'wyraz' is also related to 'wyrazenie', meaning 'expression'. As a fellow "Anglophone", but in my case bilingual with German, I can clearly understand your point of view with regard to Polish. I began learning Polish, my first Slavic language, at around age thirty. Somehow, I seemed to absorb this fascinating and immensely beautiful, tongue fairly quickly. I'm still occasionally challenged by the aspect system, haven't quite developed the ear for natural-sounding idiom and slang either, but consider myself as having the fluency of a solid intermediate.

Polish, like German, is of course, like any language, incredibly practical! Finding a Pole or a German with my level of English, even my level in their language, especially German, is rather like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack!

Many European companies too have typically used non-native English speakers to edit their English texts which they send internationally to clients all over the world, hence further reeinforcing the mistakes made respectively by German, Polish native speakers etc. who doggedly insist on writing in English instead of their mother language.

Who are using their foreign language skills to communicate with other people around the world, you mean.
English is a lingua franca, like it or not.
Not everyone has to know it to super-advanced level. This is where translators and interpreters come into the picture. ;-)

Witaj, Magdo!

True enough what you say re: translators. I am one. Unfortunately, often times Poles and other Europeans use native translators INTO English, rather than hiring a native English speaker such as myself for the same job because they're simply too darn cheap to pay the extra expense on a quality job! That's the bottom line, I'm afraid.

However, do they really 'communicate' or actually 'miscommunicate' with the rest of the continent by using faulty English??

Hey hey hey! Easy there! I do a lot of translating INTO English myself, you see, and I'm no native! It's not a question of being cheap IMHO. It's other things.
1) Most texts, excluding literature, are not that complicated or linguistically challenging to merit looking for a "native" translator;
2) availability - if every Polish text generated in Poland and translated into English/German/French etc. were to go via a native speaker of those languages, where would you find all those translators? Remember, literally thousands of pages are being commissioned for translation every day! There would have to be thousands of willing native translators on call to cope with this demand;
3) with language pairs like Polish/English, where one is much more widely taught than the other, what guarantee can you give that a Polish translator who has studied English since primary school would be a worse translator into English, i.e., would have a worse understanding of the finer points of English, than an English translator who (with luck) started learning Polish in his/her late teens would have of the finer points of Polish? (What a sentence! Am I making sense?) In other words, translation is two-way. Your perfect ability to express yourself in English does not by itself mean you will understand the Polish well enough to be able to fully utilize this ability (or at all). In other words, you need to know the two languages equally well. In other words, both the Polish and the English translator are at a certain disadvantage and have to work equally hard. In other words, what's the problem if I do translate into English?
4) why are interpreters required to go back and forth between two or more languages if it's such a crime for translators? I am an interpreter as well - do I forget my English the instant I start typing?

Magda,

I haven't read the quality of your translations into English or heard the quality of your interpreting into English, but based on your posts, I wouldn't let you translate for me into English for free, much less for pay! -:) Sorry.

By the way, I translate INTO German, but only because I grew up bilingual. You didn't, obviously.

that is a rather brave thing to say! lol. im gutted that even though i've learnt German for 3 years and was quite good at it, 5 years on (4 spent in UK) i can't remember anything...

Aren't u being a trifle disingenuous Marek? ;)

I am only sorry that you have obviously decided to not take the time to read what I had written or to respond logically / intelligently.
What you have done, on the other hand, is attack me, my professional qualifications, and my level of English.
I find it immature at best.
Congratulations on your blissful and extremely self-satisfied bilingualism.

Magda!

Please, be my guest. Impress me. I'd honestly look forward to being proven wrong. I'm at panlech31@yahoo.com. I'll be happy to e-mail back my corrections for practice too! Incidentally, I'd use you to translate into Polish, your mother tongue, noooo problem.

Hello the Marek,

will u learn me what mean 'fortnight'?

I'd rather you answered the questions and issues I raised in my post above. This is not about my English skills. Even if my English IS atrocious, I still managed to string together a few sentences about the subject we had been discussing - translation. You, on the other hand, cling to the illusion that this is some giant ego fest.



Incidentally, I have quite a busy business going, so I have very little time for fun and silliness these days. My clients will stop coming back if what you say is true. I think there is no better test.

Thanks for the generous offer.

Seanus,

A 'fortnight' means two weeks, from 'fourteen nights', used exclusively in British English.

Magdalena!

Don't mean to be rude still, but if your clients are resp, Finns, Bulgarians, Germans or other Poles, how would they know if your English skills are what you claim? Therefore, not such a good test. -:) LOL

Oh ,yes. Pardon me, there was the great Polish-born exception to everything: Joseph Conrad, who learned English while in his twenties, yet was perhaps the master prose stylist in the 19th century English novel, along with Thomas Hardy. And English was NOT his first language. A true genius. Rest in peace, Panie Joźiu!!

I could give so many instances of mangled English done in the name of pluralism.

I live and work in London, UK.

...and I in New York, congrats! -:)

Nothing very special about it, except the minor fact that I would have been out of business very soon if my language skills were so very much below par. I would never say my English is perfect, but then despite being Czech/Polish bilingual I would never say my Polish or Czech were "perfect" either. You either learn a given language every day, or you regress at an alarming rate.

I have spoken.

....and quite satisfactorily indeed! Jestem zadowalony z twoim zdaniem a zgadzam się z wieloma innymi rczeczami, które mówiłas!!

Hehehe, I knew that as I am British. Just testing u. Translation is hard work, I respect u guys. I can give loose translations but would cringe at the prospect of working for a large corporation. The nuances have to be understood, a couple of levels above me

more like: Jestem zadowolony, że takie jest twoje zdanie i zgadzam się z wieloma innymi rzeczami, o których mówiłaś.

Tell you what, if i was a client, I'd rather have Magda translate for me :)

Nope, that ain't correct.


Neither is this.

Now, (anybody) how about the meaning of Polish "kokcielić pardwę" ?

Canadians use fortnight?

The vocal sound produced by a deer?

Americans, Canadians and Aussies all use the word, although in the US it is fairly infrequent.

So, British English then! ;)

You lost me.

U were never with me ;) Australia and Canada, Commonwealth countries hence British English ;)

Nah, politics and linguistics do not overlap in this respect too much. There ain't no British English but in Britain.

Spelling here is kinda British but Canadian English is slowly becoming less colourful and becomes colorful instead. Vocabulary and pronunciation is more American than British.

I know, I was just kidding.

cool, just making sure.

As for the translations, I don't think I can agree with Marek. Not across the board.

There are circumstances when a foreign to native translation should be done by a native rather than by a foreigner. Still, there are plenty of circumstances when this is not necessarily so. My daughter's English and Polish are both at native levels. She would not be able to translate Introduction to ADA Programming from/into either language. I could not translate it into Polish myself, actually, but I would have no issues translating computer literature into the English language. Sure, you' stumble upon a few grammatical errors but it would be clear and precise - as technical texts should be.

Years ago I would do some translations, a couple movies and some academic texts. Many were a failure. I could not translate (on my own) anything about, for instance, cheese processing for someone from an Agricultural Academy. She had to sit there with me and be available for me to ask her questions.

Kokcielić means wydawać głos so I’m not really sure but is it dać głos prawdzie czyli mówić prawdę? Kokcielić is as much in use in polish as Ochędorzyć these days.
I must admit I have never heard this expression before "kokcielić pardwę" and I’m a native speaker.

You're good.
It's a part of hunter's vocabulary. Translates simply as "to call (a grouse)"

(paraphrasing Chruchill)...If you were my client, I'd let you have 'er! -:) LOL

Darius,

I'm afraid you're flat wrong! A 'fortnight' IS two weeks! Ask Seanus. -:)-:)