Polish MMA - What do you think?

wanderlei has it imo, he is the crypton to jackson's superman. i am not sure if jackson has even improved, i mean he managed to beat a guy he'd already beaten before to take the title, he just didn't have to contend with vandy as champ. i think vandy is just a bad match up for him in the ring. in the cage, things may work out differently though.

Hard to say, much depends on how they feel on the day. Wandy didn't look so confident going into the fight against Chuck. I think it would be fair to say that they are equally as capable of being each other. Does Tito Ortiz still fight? He's a tough nut but crackable

i think that Rampage has improved beyond all recognition. he dominated Chuck and Chuck won a comfortable decision over Silva. in fact Rampage is the only Pride fighter to shine upon entering the UFC. Rua looked very bad against Griffen, Crocop has done nothing but lose fights since he entered the octagon.
Personally I am getting rather tired with Dana White trying to turn the UFC into a WWF circus. I was alarmed when Zuffa bought Pride, hence the Pride fighters entering the UFC.
Tito Ortiz last fought in July against Rashad Evans. He has not retired officially and now spends his time living the life of a celebrity MTV pop tart. Fair play to him really.

Thanks for the update aligator_s. Jackson is focussed and he's got a mean ass punch. I still don't see any Polish fighters coming forward. This needs to happen.

Jackson is with Josh Barnett in Bear Camp in Calif. last I heard.....Wanderlei's been working on his business lately, and needs to get hungry, again...

Hi Seanus,
there are some good Polish fighters. Their techniques are very good.

if you look at the UK there are not too many fighters who have been successful internationally. Michael Bisping has been very successful, as has Ian Freeman and Mark Weir but compare this to hundreds of North American, Japanese and Brazilian fighters.
it is probably because American kids learn wrestling in school, Japanese kids learn some form of martial art and the Brazilian kids learn BJJ. in the UK and in Poland there does not seem to be that base of grappling knowledge learned from a young age. Having said that Polish judoka are fantastic.
Lack of sponsorship makes it difficult for Polish fighters to become established on the world circuit

Josh Barnett, now there's a fighter. He'd give Fedor a bit of a fight, though inevitably lose. He's actually a friend of Fedor. Fedor looks cold but he's a decent guy. U should watch Fedor sambo training, ferocious. I'm sure some guy behind the scenes here in Poland is just lurking in the shadows, ready to emerge. It'd be interesting to see a guy called Indy fight. He's a bouncer at a local club here in Gliwice. I watched him train young Poles do ju-jitsu, he's the local instructor here. He asked me to try and hit him but he's a master of blocking. He should step forward

hey.. a little bit out of topic now.. but, maybe someone of you people know the names for positions and submissions in MMA/BJJ in polish ??

for example.. i know mount = dosiad, and butterfly guard = motylek...
If you know more, please post =)

thx!

yeah i guess i know most of them (the names) when i hear them but i'm quite visual and experiential so you could even give me 10 different variations of judo throws with traditional japanese names and i just wouldn't be able to remember the names. However i would have the throws down and the set ups to boot. It did suck though when i'd go to tournies and i'd hear the instructions the other guy's corner would be giving him, it could've been used to my advantage i suppose (but i guess i won more often than not so whatever)
what you smokin willis? he got owned and reowned by silva in brutal fashion, put down the pipe.
as for tito seanus: his striking doesn't set up his clinch and pummel game. he's trying to be an outside striker but his dominant performances have been from fighting in close.
Barnett? could be the guy to beat Fedor, we'll see if Randy and Fedor fight in October.

Polish mma= HUUUUUUGE Talent pool, I mean ridiculously HUGE. Poznan, Szczescin, Warszawa, Krakow and Sląsk are the places in Poland to be as far as having kicka$$ training partners. Somebody just needs to be the savvy promoter who can deal with all the petty b.s. that comes part and parcell with Polish sport to really give Poles a steady league to compete in, one that will be reliable enough to make training worth their while (payolla wise).
That is all.

Do u know Łukasz Jurkowski? He seems like a decent prospect but Taekwondo fighters aren't the best. Yilmaz was beaten by Masato. Muay Thai beats Taekwondo on this occasion.

tkd? while i refrain from ridicule, if he doesn't have a solid ground game or sprawl ability i gotta question his future in the game. just sayin y'know? but anyway, never heard of him, i'll ask a few guys about him tonight.

I don't see why a Polish fighter can't learn from Fedor for example. BTW Ian, did u c Fedor Vs Hong Man Choi? Fedor will armbar him everytime. Hong Choi could hurt Fedor in a rematch but, for me, he's never gonna beat Fedor.

at the risk of being accused of smoking crack Rampage Jackson will beat Silva in the cage.
this is in the unlikely event of Silva becoming a contender in the UFC.
Page has improved his game out of all proportion. he did lose against Wandy twice in Pride but I believe he would beat Silva should they meet again

Łukasz Jurkowski demonstrated a competent ground game in KSW. He is not the world's greatest grappler but he did not look uncomfortable on the ground. Strikers can learn to grapple. George St Pierre started life as a kyokushin karate fighter. He humiliated Matt Hughes and Matt Hughes is a phenomenal wrestler.

Don't call him that, it's dumb. you may be right about jackson but hey, an 0-2 record by way of hellacious beatdown doesn't really tip the scales in his favour. His last outing against Chuck was too short to make any assessment and his matches with Eastman and Lindland didn't really showcase his skills. I really think Wanderlei, Chuck and Jackson are a triangle of one guy being able to beat the next but not the one after.


noone's saying they can't, but i'd like to know the pedigree of the guy he was fighting on the ground, i simply don't have an opinion on the guy's ground game but hey, I can look like a good striker against the right opponent-know what i'm sayin?

'Don't call him that, it's dumb'

oh look, I have made a new friend!

Perhaps you might want to view Mr Jurkowski's ground game, clips of his fights can be found on youtube.com

KSW is a good event, the quality of the fighters is very good and they import some top Dutch fighters from 2hot2handle. it is not like some of the fights that go in Russia where you have a sambo instructor up against a bus driver - 'From Russia with Blood' springs to mind here. I do not know if you have seen those fights but they do tend to be a little one sided.

what a boring world it would be if we all thought the same

yeah i guess i over-reacted a bit, but seriously why have a cool nickname like Rampage if someone ends up clipping it and make him sound lower than a squire? Seriously I hate the whole "page" thing, it came from TUF newbs trying to put their stamp on mma and it's just simply "the ghey." Nothing against you, not saying you're dumb, you're probably a cool mother f***er.

Anyway, i've watched a few of his fights and while initially he had his hands too low, it looks like he's started to correct that. His ringmanship is good in that he keeps out of the boxer's pocket and keeps to the outside. His strikes are technically sound, look very powerful (fight ending back kick) but they don't flow, he's either loading up too much or he seems to have trouble tracking his opponents. That is, he fires off a shot or two but then stops, regroups and stays outside again but then again maybe that's his strategy. The Rimbon fight is a good example of this, where he got a gift-boxed, hand-wrapped, home-town decision btw.

His clinch looks very good and knees appear to be his best asset.

He has thown a couple looping over hand lefts that really leave him exposed and if he's not using them to set up a shot then he should just leave them out of his game, a good counter striker will catch him on that.

His sprawl is very good but his follow up defence is not. Holding the ropes multiple times in match really saved his ass from being slammed into a very crap position. He went for a guillotine as a defence against a so-so double leg takedown attempt (shot and very delayed forward drive)-not smart imo. If you can't sprawl with your guilotine to cinch it in then you're just begging to be rotated and slammed onto your side, again, his rope grab saved that from happening. A much better defence is to slip in underhooks and stand your opponent up to either shoot or throw off that or use strikes, in his case knees would probably finish things off in short order. And if you can only get one underhook, that's fine, push on the head to get his shoulders below his hips, then decide what to do from a very advanageous position.


Nice triangle in the KSW 7 fight, it takes guts to go for that in a match, but it looked as though him getting it was due 50% to his efforts and 50% to his opponent not knowing how to either rotate out of it, stack him up, compact him and rotate out of it or posture up and break it. That being said, it wasn't a bad closed guard at all and a very nice triangle, but that being the only bit i really saw of him on the ground it's tough to say if i think he has a good ground game or not, i just haven't seen enough of it. i agree with you, he didn't look uncomfortable but was that because his opponent didn't make him uncomfortable or because he wouldn't let his opponent?

no really you are right. I am dumb. I usually try to hide it, but you have seen me as the fraud I really am. The truth hurts..... sniff

I hope you are pleased with yourself.... sniff

oh stop it now, i already feel bad enough as it is. *berates self*

all joking apart, your comments with regards to the Jurkowski fight clips are very well made. You clearly know your stuff.
Back to Polish MMA for a moment, the good news is that the UFC (love it or hate it as an organisation but it still is the number one organisation) is starting to become much more European focussed. They had their first Swede fight in the last UFC held in Newcastle. They have signed up Goran Reljic (although Croatian he has fought Polish fighters)
Strategically the UFC management realise that America is only one market. They would like MMA to take off in Mexico - hence the promotion of Huerto - an excellent fighter never the less. Bisping is the UK's poster boy for the UFC. In the last couple of years they have realised that there is money to be made in Europe. The UFC's new focus outside the US can only be seen as good news for Polish fighters. Coming back to the sponsorship/promotion comments we both made on previous posts

with regards to your comment Łukasz Jurkowski dropping his hands, it is probably a bad habit picked up from TKD. the question is does he keep them dropped when under attack? Sugar Ray Leonard used to drop his hands a lot but his reflexes kept him out of trouble as did Chris Eubank.

Having said that dropping your mitts is never wise. I believe that is why fighters like Chuck Liddell may be finished now. A contraversial statement I know however the reflexes are the first to go and once that happens you do not have anything to fall back on. Randy Couture can a drag you to the mat and either batter you or submit you. Dan Severn will just take you down and keylock you. Lightning fast reflexes are not needed. Hence Dan Severn can still fight at the age of 54

good point on dropping hands and your sugar ray leonard comparison is a good analogy, one which i admit i never considered. I think that's why jackson will always be able to capitalize on chuck, he's got the skills i.e., quickness and power, to take advantage of that. Wandy doesn't have that problem (that i can remember) and that is Jackson's opening from the outside, with wandy he seems to have to fight inside more.

But Dan Severn? i respectfully disagree. his strength was always fighting people who couldn't stop a bullrush takedown- in takedown defence lightning reflexes are needed but they are technically, imo, of a different sort entirely than striking, unless of course striking is your takedown defence, see anderson silva vs. my beloved carlos newton (beloved in the most manly non sexual way possible lol).

UFC in Poland? I see the day, but while i think having a reputable organization is paramount for these guys to be receiving reliable compensation for their hard work, i certainly wouldn't want a singular org. dominating the global market. It would be great if there was a premier fight league that allowed poles to train and fight in poland.

with the greatest of respect, the aged Mr Severn was not known for his elegant explosive takedowns which do call for good reflexes. Dan the Beast was always a bit of a plodder. He would push you against the cage and sort of fall on top of you. this does not call for cat like reflexes. no matter how good your reflexes are you cannot do much if you are pushed up against the chain link and held by a man who is retard strong. Tito Ortiz was pretty slick in his day but his sprawl could not stop Dan Severn. The same applies to Forest Griffen and a whole host of other whippersnappers who Dan Severn submitted having first fallen to the canvas with them. His fight with Tank Abbott consisted of Dan Severn avoiding being knocked out, grabbing hold of Tank and clinging on for dear life until gravity took its course. Having said that Dan could do a mean suplex
His fights were not the most exciting but he was effective

hence the term "bullrush" ;)



FRAT WARNING:

well actually you do need really good reflexes to avoid the grips that get you in that predicament. it's all very subtle looking but you gotta recognize pretty quickly what your opponent is up to and change positions to prevent his offence and restart your own.

again, these are completely different than in let's say boxing where you'd use some really quick and short head and body movement and some really quick feet this way or that to avoid various punches.

In wrestling defence, you have to halt what you were doing (stopping your momentum on a throw attempt takes unreal reflexes) and change your whole body position to something that adequately defends against your opponent, be it a leg shot or a when he goes for head control or something like a body lock.

Now, your defense may be a reversal, redirection or simply stuffing the takedown but your reflexes need to be of an overall reaction, but mark my words, they better be damn good and damn fast. Ya see, it's all about lateral movement, if you've wrestled or done judo with people who compete or have competed at the world level you'd know what i mean. it's amazing how they can scramble your circuits with pummeling and misdirection and then bam! f'n airborn. the crazy thing is, is that the majority of people i've grappled with think i have killer standing grappling, but it's scary how deep the pool of knowledge and skill is for wrestling and judo- they really, to this day, have no idea how little i truly know.

Think of it this way, imagine your avg. athletic guy who's never done a lick of boxing or a lick of wrestling or judo in his life. Now pit him against an avg olympian of the same weight in those three disciplines in those disciplines (minus the boxing headgear) and his chances of koing the boxer are WAAAAAAAAY higher than even scoring a point on the wrestler (greco or freestyle) or the judoka. Hell, even give the guy a month training in each and it's still completely laughable that this guy would even score a point or for that matter last more than 90 sec. tops.



the point is to not be there and having good reflexes coupled with experience will help you avoid that and yes, even get out of it.



they never fought but if they had, his sprawl would definitely have been enough (pre moped bus crash Ortiz- while wearing florsheims;). But you shouldn't use a sprawl to defend against a pushing suffocating attack at all, that will just get your head snapped down and either: choked, kneed or worse. Once a body lock is on, then of course you gotta keep your hips back in a semi-spawl fashion, but overdo it and that's gonna be
a one way ticket, all expense paid trip to the canvas.


a) that's why there are weight classes
b) what the hell was forrest's experience going into that fight, a lot of it winning the takedown is comfort, if a guy isn't as comfortable as his opponent then his chances of reacting better than his opponent are similarly reduced.


while tank has hella power, and good wrestling, he simply lacked the gameplan and wrestling reflexes to stave off the severn takedown, for christ's sakes he even tripped over the f'n canvas in his fight with frye.


against a comparatively anemic, at the time kick boxer, anthony "mad dog" macias-yes, yes he could.

oh ****, i don't even know if i'm arguing a point anymore or i just love this sport so much, hey cheers man, oh yeah sorry about the FRAT, if you read it all cheers to you.

Couture vs fedor is the fight i would like to see happen :)

i hear couture expects his contract to run out by october and the fight is to be co-promoted for then. you've seen the affliction promos of the randy emilienanko bout i trust. and unless randy cuts him then i expect fedor em. to dismantle the him, however i do acknowledge that if this fight is in a cage then fedor may get pressed and randy could score a cut stoppage. jeeze i gotta run or the gf will kill me

I think Fedor would take him out really quickly IMHO. He took Hong Man Choi out with ease. Hong Man has troubled some good fighters. Couture was arguably no better than Coleman

hmc had how much mma experience? coleman? please, awesome heart, great wrestling skill and strength but a one-trick poney nonetheless. ok i gotta run, she is pissed:(

I'd put money on Coleman beating Couture, he made a good fist of it against Crocop in his prime and could really connect with a tired Couture.

i heard Couture is even thinking of starting is own organisation just to fight fedor...i cant see that happening but its a rumor

Couture is looking at a pounding but I applaud his bravery. Fedor would armbar him quite swiftly. A win is possible tho, Crocop was caught by Randleman and others have walked into punches. Fedor, to date, has had a rock solid chin. Some have belted him quite hard but he just shook them off. There is still hope as Pride fighters haven't set the UFC alight. I've watched Fedor do Sambo and he doesn't go all out. He just looks as if he could turn the screw at any time tho. I've also watched his 'loss', there's no way he lost that fight.

why he doesn't seek out frank shamrock's strikeforce promotion and co-promote with a russian org (as i hear fedor's keen on that) is beyond me

and yeah seanus, couture has proven susceptable to armbars albeit a long time ago, against enson i beleive