HOW CAN POLISH PEOPLE AFFORD IT?? They are said to earn very little..?

Help me understand. Wages in Poland are 700 to 900 US dollars a month. Hotels in the
moderate range are 90-150 US dollars a month. Gas is $7 USD gallon. Restaurants are
10-20 USD a month. What am I missing here. How can the Polish people afford to go out.
This has nothing to do us exchange rate because if you translated to PLN then the problem would be the same. Please help me understand.

simple they dont go out at least most then not

How do you think?
Simply they must earn more...
In Warsaw I dont know anybody with wages 700 USD...in snall villages/cities - yes...

hehe.. and how do you think, why over 1 mln Poles left country?

Typical Pole spending more than he earning. How??

There's a "behind the table" money flow - and it's quite common

Simple as that!

There is some truth in what u r saying TripTic but, a word of advice, be careful (well, 2 words, LOL). Poles are sensitive on such matters. Yes, it is true that many here read commercials in magazines and splash out on designer stuff but they are just being who they are. Yeah, it would be nice if everybody could live within their means but reality shows us otherwise.

I came to the same conclusion as u after doing basic arithmetic and incurred the wrath of my girlfriend. She made the point that Poles, based on their skills, have the same right to live in the same way as 'Westerners'. I see her point, there are many workers here who earn peanuts for their efforts. Intrinsic/extrinsic motivation, fine, but they need more money.

This thread has the potential to be lively and volatile.

No they aren't. The average wage is officially 2,400zl per month. That's about USD 1,100. And the average is lowered by the people who are officially earning nothing (i.e. the unemployed) but actually working and being paid in cash.

I've got no idea how big your gallon is. But petrol here is certainly cheaper than it is in the UK. Petrol is expensive in europe.

Depends where you are and what you want to eat. In some Warsaw restaurants USD 20 isn't even going to be your starter. In some country towns, you'll pay a dollar for a beer and USD 4 for a two course meal.

No worries. I'm Pole and i know what i'm saiyng. Everybody in Poland knows about that.

By the way...unfair competition, bribes and corruption are still widespread in PL ..unfortunately. Hope it ends soon.

Lapówki i korupcja, hehehe, it is changing tho. It crippled Piast Gliwice as they were docked 10 points. This season, bez lapówek, is much better, clear in division 2 by 5 points.

It is interesting that you are a Pole and think that Poles overspend, maybe u r basing ur view on people too much on a specific region or social group? I think most Poles would disagree with u.

Another point is belief, numbers and prices fly around like leaves in a gale-force wind, u never know what to believe. Sb told me it was a 'Polish secret' how Poles get by (przeciętny Polak mi chodzi o). Whatever that means

Yes it is a "Polish secret" - how to spend more than officially earned. On my first post in this thread i've just revealed this secret. Not in every case but in most it's about "second hand, untaxed money". I have to agree it's a generalisation.

How about the possibility that some Poles might actually have access to a) savings b) assistance from parents/family c) credit cards / bank loans? I don't think most Poles earn extra, untaxed cash.
I know many people who regularly take out loans to finance vacations or expensive purchases. I personally took out bank loans to buy my flat, my car, my computer, washing machine (not all at the same time ofc) - all repaid ages ago. Wouldn't have been able to afford any of that stuff otherwise.
BTW - spending more than you officially earn is not a Polish phenomenon at all. Just think about the sub-prime crisis or the lending crisis in general (US, UK).

Na lewo? W lewice? Poles claim back a lot of stuff on VAT and purchases. I've just been told by my financial advisor that I should be doing the same to reduce overheads. I don't have the lower tax rate option, ryczałt I think u call it. I have my own teaching firm. Being Scottish (nie skąpy, bardziej oszczędny), it's easier for me to balance the books, LOL. No movements to the left, well, not many ;)

What you are doing is not "lewizna" - the tax code duly authorizes costs deductible from income, i.e. costs without which it would be impossible to conduct your business = koszty uzyskania przychodu. Unless you bend the definition of what is necessary to your business, ofc ;-)
You pay VAT, you claim VAT - as a business.
Not as a private person employed by a company, though.
I ran my own business in Poland for 10 years, I would never choose the ryczałt option. I almost never had to pay income tax, but ZUS was a major pain. Overall, I think the Polish income tax system is quite easy to understand and rather fair. I used to do everyone's tax returns, actually when I visited my dad in Poland last year, he made me do his tax return again! ;-)

ZUS is a pain, but not in the first 2 years of your firm where u can expect to pay c290zł a month. Otherwise, it's c800zł. I think the tax system is fair in a sense BUT is disproportionate to earnings. Not everyone knows about the 'koszty' where u can get deductions on 'boots' for travelling and other things. When I worked in Japan, I paid 6% income tax, not 19%. Granted, u pay a 5% federal tax on everything u buy, but that still is manageable. The take home pay was greater and it was up 2 u what u bought. It was a disincentive to buy too much in Japan as it is MUCH more expensive than here.

Back in the day, ZUS was approx. 600-700 from day 1.
And believe me, the majority are no fools and either know how to do their tax returns, or ask someone knowledgeable to do it. Most people have an accountant in their family or among friends somewhere ;-)
The only good thing about ZUS is that since the "ubruttowienie" of salaries that took place about 5-6 years ago (i.e., your ZUS is included in your gross salary), ZUS is taken away from tax payable (odliczenie od podatku) at the end of your income tax statement. This means v. good news for many people, sometimes even a considerable tax refund at the end of the year :-)
Whereas in the UK, I actually had to pay extra National Insurance at the end of the year, even though my taxable income was under 2000 pounds... ;-(
I don't really understand the British system, I'm afraid. Thank God for the online tax return thingy on the HMRC website...

The golden rule is, like any contract, research ur position thoroughly so as not to be caught out. I couldn't imagine doing my tax returns without the help of a specialist. If native Poles find it hard, where does that place me?

Wrong wrong.. the average is just over 3000zl (get your facts right) and no people of pensions are not included in the calculation (get your facts right) tax and zus on this is around 1000zl.. not many people living away from the major towns earn that sort of money.

A person who earns say 3000zl clear would still find it hard to pay costs let alone pay for a morgage, Its about time people give a more balanced view of living in Poland. Coming as a tourist is one thing but living with daily increase in cost is something else.
One other point which may not sit well with a lot of people is that poles steal a lot, especially in the work place. sad but true.

Jezus mate, aint being funny or nothing like but what a load of bollox. Thats like saying "based on nose size, Poles should drive bigger cars". Your 'aving a fukin bubble. I suggest that next time your mrs comes out with such crap, you tell her to shut up and go and do the washing up. Some people are doers, not thinkers.

Talk about Polish logic.

It's not to far-fetched as u equate skills with good jobs, is that so weird? What's ur job then?

If it was as simple as that Seanus then why not just say that as a human being, everybody has the right to live in the same way as everybody else. An idealogically sound proposal but out of touch with the real world and a pretty silly thing to say.

What does my job have to do with the Polish credit problem?

Poles don't have a right to live like Westerners? Are they insignificant people who somehow deserve less than us?

Africans don't have the right to live like Westerners? Are they insignificant people who somehow deserve less than us?

Westerners don't have the right to live like Westerners? Are they insignificant people who somehow deserve less than us?

Donkeys should have the right to live like kings? Are they powerful beings who somehow deserve more than the rest?

I believe that by pre-emptively shooting people you create a more favourable resource : consumer ratio thereby raising the standard of living for all.

Bull***t. 700 USD is about 1700zl. You don't know anybody in Warsaw earning that? I know and I'm not even living there... But still, earning 1700 in Warsaw is the same as 1000 in a smaller town. Renting some place to live alone will cover the difference easily.

And how people can afford to go out? Many can't... Others don't live alone, so life gets cheaper. And many people get more money than it seems. Not only official pays are often lower than in reality but quite many try to get some additional money after work.



So come to Poland or go to Africa and be a "doer not thinker"... It's that simple, right? Maybe you don't realize, that if most people in those regions weren't "doers" they wouldn't make a living at all.



No, "everybody has the right to live in the same way as everybody else" is not the same as above. He only said that nobody is better/worse and I agree, that based on the skills and work done, everybody should deserve the same pay. But life isn't fair and that's all. Where don't you agree? There was this type of thinking, not so long ago, that some people are worse and can work without being fairly paid. It was called slavery.

Seanus you chose to live in Poland to better your standard of living (seems the Irish wouldn't give you a job) Poles go to GB and the US to better their lives, get the point.

Your wages are a bit off, but someone else has already corrected you.

Also you have to learn one Polish word to help you understand how poles can live off low wages. The word is: "Kombinowac", in english it is something like "to scheme."

Wages in Poland are lower but people want to live like people do in the west, so Poles think of ways to make more money. One of my uncles for example, has some advertisements on the wall surrounding his house. He also managed to get money from the city for some underground pipes/cables that were installed without his permission before communism fell.

Sometimes people collect one of their parents' (if both are still alive) pension and use the money for themselves/their kids/rent. Or they have the retired parent(s) move it with them AND collect/use their pension money.

Futhermore, apartment rents are cheaper for poles. I could find a place to rent for no more than 600zl in wroclaw (a nice place too), but a foreigner will probably end up paying up to 1000zl. Prices always go up for foreigners.

Eating out is not a very popular past time in poland. Have you noticed the scarcity of restaurants, especially in the 90's? And when they do go out, they eat at "off the beaten path" restaurants. When i went to prague, everyone complained about the expensive restaurants. Their mistake was to eat at restaurants in the tourist areas. I paid no more than $8-10 for dinner each day, instead of the $30-40 they were paying. And i bet my meals tasted better.

Credit card debt, like in the USA, is also on the rise. I read an article on this on gazeta.pl a little while back, if i find it i'll post it.

Finally you have to understand that wages in poland are going up and many people earn fairly decent salaries.

I can't think of any more examples, so i encourage other poles to post their ideas/experiences in "kombinowanie." :)

I've wondered the same. It's gonna cost me atleast $3000 to visit poland for 2 weeks :(


And I might still need to pull out the plastic here and there lol

A lot of poles were supported by relatives who moved to the United States and other Western countries. Ask any Pole and he will tell you so and so and so are in the ............ People living in the country grow there own vegetables, meat dishes are consumed on Sunday or Christmas. Poles know where to buy cheap stuff, unlike westerners who love to flash their dollar notes at expensive stores.
Getting welfare payments and working full or part time also does the trick.
As mentioned before Poles do steal from work and this to them is justified because of low wages that they receive.
Unless Oil is discovered in Poland nothing much will change in Poland especially people complaining :)))