Polish religious pilgrims crashed coming back from a pilgrimage

How do you know, Clunkshift, that a family member or a friend of one of the victims will not see these "words". You may choose not to express sympathy because you feel it does nobody any good, but I can tell you from firsthand experience, condolences from family, friends and even strangers does affect the person being consoled.....it might not even be recognized at the time, but those expressions of caring do carry over.....personally, I'd rather say something nice to a complete stranger, or in this case, write something to let another human being know they are not alone in their suffering (we all experience it at sometime in our life), than not say anything at all and risk not having had some positive impact on someone. I like to give back what has been given to me. PEACE!

I have experienced of these things too.

Agree with you 100%, LIR.....

:(

r.i.p.

Well I am truly sorry that you have never been comforted by the caring of others.

Exaggeration!
Ok, ok i know that happened something terrible FOR THOSE PEOPLE, but come on!
Dont make one big mourning, cuz it makes me sick. Every day in Poland, on streets die 15 ppl ! Thats what statistics are saying. Anyway i dont wanna be cruel or so, just think its strange to make nationality mourning cuz of it. Im talking about Kaczynskis decision. Another programm in tv, black and white portals and so on. When i heard hes gonna make it, i looked for some informations about history of polish nationality mourning and get know that in ALL HISTORY of Poland it happened only 12 times. Now just compare it with last time. I remember at least 5 (Jan Paweł II, World Trade Centre, Madrid, Chorzów, miners) and im only 18, thats strange! By the way: now died 26 ppl, after Tsunami couple of tousends... and there was no mourning. I know that this time there are Poles, so why we get mourning after american terrorism attack? Maybe there should be some more clear rules about making mourning or not! And maybe its enough i have to hear about some bus all days! Ok, im sorry they die but dont care much. Just couple of honest words.

Requiestant in pacem
[']

A seven years old recently said to me, about someone who was berating someone, " if you can't say something nice, you shouldn't say anything at all"!

Perhaps, in light of the subject matter of this topic, you should have kept your feeling to yourself.

Sorry, I must have missed the rule that says all members must agree on all subjects and only post nice things.
I fail to see the benefit in requesting condolences from atheists for Catholic pilgrims.
Next you will tell me that George Bush prays every night that Osama bin Ladin will enjoy better health and that all Americans love the Dixie Chicks.

May your god/spirit/ancestor/karma go with you.

I don't think it was so much requesting condolences based on a particular faith......it was a call for some human compassion towards other humans.

To offer condolences is to offer a hand in a time of need. It might be in a virtual world and we may never meet the person involved, but I can think of more than one occasion on this forum where the recipient has replied. It matters not if you are religious or not. It is an understanding that someone is in grief and you care that matters.

Well said, Wroclaw!

I agree.......nicely put :)

we're all members of the Human Race, whether or not we believe in a God, the same God or any higher being or no-one. Sometimes, we forget that.......:(

I didn't say that... I said , in not so many words, that considering the subject matter, you might refrain from your negative diatribe on this particular posting. Given that there are so many other topics which invite and involve your opinions, you could have been a bit more considerate.

Yeah, i think i missed it too! When ure trying say something across them, automatically they start to quarell with u! o.O
And how to call it "discussion"?

U really think that some foreign person will care when u will be in grief? So maybe just take it easy!

I dont think so that his statement was pungent.

oh dear mate... you seem to have dug yourself into a pretty deep hole here...

R.I.P

I was waiting for the heart warming humanist words of consolation, inspiring and uplifting thoughts, helpful insights and heartfelt words of support to carry a bereaved stranger through the next hours, days, weeks and years - fortunately prayer doesn't have to wait for anything.
As a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ I can pray to a father, common to the victims, and call on all his promises to console, help, encourage and sustain them, so I don't feel I'm in a hole, more like on a mountain.
I don't have to send flowers, write words in books or send cuddly toys; these dear souls had the faith to go on a long pilgrimage and some reached home sooner than others.
The eyes of the Lord are over the righteous and his ear is open to their prayers.

Then what are you wasting time on this forum for? Go ahead and pray.
Let us all know over how that works out for the "bereaved strangers."

pungent [i]adj[i] from the Latin [i]pungere[i], to pierce
1. producing a sharp sensation of taste and smell
2. sharp, biting, or stimulating, [as in pungent wit]
Webster's New World Dictionary

I think his statement was biting, and in turn has caused a bit of stimulation, by being written at the wrong time, and in the wrong place!

Topic attached on merging:
Recent Polish coach crash in France

I've lifted this from another forum. What are people's views of the author's comments ?

"The driver should not have been using the road. Simple

The building should have been inspected properly so the roof wouldn't have collapsed under the weight of snow.

Ooops sorry wrong story but still a person 'getting round' the law. Oh how Polish

Very sad that again a person not abiding by the law gets lots of people killed.
Tragic yes, Driver killed in the crash, he got off too easy. Jesus Christ is YOU NEED ELECTRONIC BRAKES TO USE THIS ROAD too hard to understand?
National mourning Poles should be ashamed of their crap law breaking drivers, I am just pleased there were no innocent passers by killed, i feel sorrow for the pasengers and families.
The driver broke the law, simple. The roof was not checked, bribes were paid. same problem. The law is the law if you are Polish or not. Times have changed, poles shouldn't need to 'wangle, con, avoid rules, Ignore the law' any more.

National mourning or national embarassment?"

Here is an obituary of a US citizen who died in Poland from my area. I don't know if I will find more information on how he died, but he was visiting Poland as a tourist. The worst part is when you die in another country and they can't find the immediate family.

"David A. Pupp, 58, Marshfield, died Thursday, July 19, 2007, in Krakow, Poland."

God did not punish these pilgrims...if you look at an astronomical map of our galaxy, the Milky Way, you will find that our solar system is way out on what is called a spiral arm...
in other words, our system is at the very edge of our galaxy...there are billions of other
systems & stars in the Milky Way alone...using tools like the Hubble telescope, we can now see that our 'Universe' contains BILLIONS, maybe TRILLIONS of other galaxies...in
fact, we can not see the edge of it, as the Universe appears to still be expanding...Now,
God, who created this Universe, and did so out of His Love & desire to share Life with
his creatures & have relationships w/them, does not step into every particular 'situation'
that exists, either to change for better or worse...like parents, who through their love have children, but then must set them free at some time to live their own lives...He creates, puts things in motion and lets his Creation live out life on it's own...in His wisdom, he knows that when our material existence ends here, we will be returning to him, sooner or later...He made a very special intervention here, when he sent his Son...now what was the human reaction to that?...well, you all know the story...His Son was murdered but still the meaning of His life motivates everything that is good in human society...so accidents do happen due to human errors, and the Father does have a big Universe to maintain...so, a prayer for all those pilgrims who died & have returned to Him.

What good is a prayer to a god that doesn't do anything?

He DOES everything, but maybe your perceptions of Him are skewed...have a talk with
his Son, and tell Him what's troubling you...you might be surprised!

Apparently it does good for those who are praying, otherwise so many people would not be doing it.....it's called faith, my dear.

I understand it's about faith ,but that does not make it real.
Sick people have been healed by placebo medicine too. That is also about faith.
It's the same with people who believe in ghosts ,they see ghosts ,never people who dont belive in them. :)

Blasphemy!!! You better hope the Pope doesn't find this post...




Anyway, sad stuff. My best wishes to the families :[