Polish – Russian relation, from the angle of Serbs

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Polish – Russian relation, from the angle of Serbs


These days, I was in situation to speak with one Russian and I said to him that it is glad to me to notice that there are some positive trends in global image about Russia but, that Russia still must do more to improve relations on the first place with Poland. I was surprised when as answer I got comment like this one: `Russia has enough resources to survive as independent on the long run but, on the end we would lost the race with other powers because of lack in biological potential (not enough people). Seams that Russian elite recognized danger that if Slavs continue to exist as separated, they don’t have chance to survive as independent ethos’s and to avoid assimilation. To survive Slavs must cooperate and combine into Unity. But, nobody wants Unity with selfish Russian elite and so batter people coming on scene in Russian society and politics. Simply, all our resources aren’t enough; we need each others united in strong Slavic state, probably organized as confederation. All of us must give something little to get much in return.`


When I try to sum-up opinion of Balkan Serbs on antagonism between Poles and Russians, I coming to conclusion that Serbs blame Russians because of bad relations between Russians and Poles. For bad image of Russia hire, I must mention collaboration between Russian elite with Germany (that really upsets Serbs). We don’t blame ordinary Russians (!) but, Russian elite (!) which wasn’t enough flexible for Polish interests.

My opinion is that historic mistake of Russia and Poland was that their elites were too stubborn and selfish. Poland should had expanded on West (Slavic Eastern Germany and deeper, even further in direction of Austria (old Slavic Charantania), etc and not to allow assimilation of Slavs in the region), Russia and Ukraine made mistake because they didn’t concentrate their expansion on South and on Black see (territory of Romania and Hungary, to save Romaniazed and Hungarized Slavs). Today, we all paying those mistakes and all Slavs suffer.

If Russian and Polish elite were claver, South Slavs wouldn’t lose territorial connection with Western and Eastern Slavs. In that situation Germans (in fact people, who abandoned Slavic heritage) wouldn’t got wings and they wouldn’t be problem for all Slavs. Polish - Russian antagonism endangers and affects security of complete Slavic world.


One of the things that Serbs hardly can accept and understand is different role of Russian state on Balkan and in Central Europe.

Russian role on Balkan was decisive for salvation of Slavs from Turkish, Austrian and Hungarian rule and in central Europe- Russia failed as Slavic protector and even complicate things to Poland.


Balkan Serbs also remembered Polish attempts to support them against Ottomans.

Famous Polish King Jan Sobieski, savior of Vienna, was member and Grand master of Sacred Order of the Dragon of Saint George, which was initiated from Serbian nobleman- Voivode of knights Milos Obilic. Creation of Order was respond on rising Ottoman threat. Milos Obilic slain Turkish Siltan Murad II and then also died in Kosovo battle (Serbs vs. Turks), in 1389.

Jan Sobieski was deeply devoted to salvation of Serbs and South Slavs from Ottoman rule.


More about Dragon Order

imperialclub.net/orderofthedragon.htm

Great comment. Poles want to live their own lives. They are slavs but it doesn`t matter who you are, for making business. Poland is in EU now and its making huge progress in development. They will make it with or without russian cooperation in business. Main problem is that Russia still can`t forget that "cold war" has had won somebody else.

It’s OK that Poles `want to live their own lives`.

Isn’t it all what ALL Slavs want in let’s say few thousand years?

Who wouldn’t like `to live their own lives`. Serbs, too but, somehow we live on very important strategic region (you know- wrong place, wrong time), we like to make our business with everyone who want correct deals, we have our Slavic culture, language and way of life and, Germany is powerful enough to want to have its own business on traditional Serbian (Slavic) region.

Germans (with `Western` powers on their side) are powerful enough to arrange enormous propaganda campaign against Serbs just to convince people of world that Serbs are bad guys and that THEY are saviors. They are (were) powerful enough to support Croatization of Catholic and Orthodox Serbs on the right side of Drina River (today’s Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina). They are powerful enough to create Germanized Greater Croatia on the land of violently assimilated Catholic Serbs (during Austrian occupation) and with genocide and with ethnical cleansing exterminated (1941-1945, 1991-1995) Orthodox Serbs. They are powerful enough to create Islamic state in Bosnia on Serbian ground. They are powerful enough to support creation of Greater Albania on Serbian ground. They are powerful enough to establish their control over Adriatic see and powerful enough to push people loyal to Slavic heritage from the warm sees and key trade routes. After all, they are powerful enough to have their own business with mujaheedines (Arabic world) and to spread Semitic heritage while in the same time they try to represent themselves as people loyal to Europe (Whites).

When Germans establish control on Serbian business they would probably (you know them) continue to bring `light of their business` everywhere where Slavs `want to live their own lives` (if you understand me).

It is easy to you to speak about `your own business` from `safe distance` and when you know that there is one good news for you. I mean, good news is that THEY yet didn’t finish with Serbs. And, if good God don’t turn his head from us, they would fail and we would have our own lives, we would make fear business deals with all who are interested and, Slavic interests would be respected.


Serbia also makes huge progress in development, no matter specific Russian interests and we are not in EU but, we are on the way to EU, just- we were conquered first.

You see, we always `want to live our own lives` and because of that EU (read Germany) mercilessly attacking, Russia refuse to help us and Poland `want to live its own life`. Everyone look for its own business.

…and, Serbs still stand! How long? I don’t know but, for sure those people who wants to survive as Slavic in this world, can sleep a little bit batter while we stand.

Crow, what is the relationship of Serbia to Hungary nowadays ? Do you think them as dangerous as the Germans ?

You really don`t want any "help" from Russia, trust me. They are maybe honest people, but they have tyrannical leadership. Somebody who falls under influence of Kremlin-Putin, sooner or later regrets it. If Russia wants to regain international trust, it must stop threaten other countries. If not, too bad for Russia itself. Only small people (I mean Putin) have too constantly proof themselves about their greatness.

I think that in Polish Political there is some kind of rusophobia.

That is interesting I read that Germans were involved in "COLLAPSE of Czechoslovakia" and now from you I know they were in about COLLAPSE of Serbia. No way to stop this muderfakers.

Just out of curiousity, how long does a Russian president and a Polish president sit in office? Is it 4 year terms like in the US?

On contrary. Read some russian newspapers and You will see "russian point of view". I understend Poles, and after what I have seen on my trip to Russia, I know that "human rights" do not exists in russian language. Lies, corruption, overwhelming crime - this is face of present Russia. No wonder that Central Europe don`t want to have anything to do with Putin-steerd Russia. Who want to do business with criminals?

In Poland 5, in Russia 4 I think.

Thanks Grzegorz!

For sure, they were involved in destruction of Czechoslovakia.

You forget to mention Yugoslavia, too.

Both of these countries were first united Slavic states (not perfect, but good attempts), embryos of future SLAVIA. Both counties had special mutual relations and even secret alliance between them.

Germany was deeply involved in destruction of first and second Yugoslavia (first was parliamentary monarchy, second was socialist country). Germany even stays behind bloody Civil War during dissolution of former Yugoslavia.

They were organizers (officially confirmed historic fact) of assassination of first Yugoslav King- Alexander I.

BDW, Serbian public strongly believe that Slobodan Milosevic (former president of Serbia) didn’t died naturally in Hague. For sure he was killed or THEY just didn’t allowed to him to take his medical treatment. In both cases, tribunal in Hague (read Germanics) is responsible.


Babylon

You haven't noticed that only SLAVIC countries are forced to segment while the Western Europe integrates/unites and even tries to attract as many as Slavic countries (of course, segmented first!)?

Serbia resisted to that process and we are first destroyed in propaganda war and then in real, open war.


It is well known fact that for Germanics, Slavs are best as objects of assimilation (first we were objects of slavery). If Slavs resist to assimilation (hold to- Slavic heritage, language, culture, their own business), they aren’t interesting and THEY trying to get rid of them. Slavic territories are interesting to THEM, with Slavs or without Slavs. For them, Slavic males are good as cannon fodders and Slavic women’s are good just for insemination.

THEIR world isn`t for Slavs.

Hungarians as people aren`t bad and they are aware that they are Slavic in their origin but, they are deeply indoctrinate with pro-German politics. In last 15 years Hungary openly endangers Slovakia and Serbia.

Hungary showing agressive attitude on Slavic countries in region, especialy now when they consider that Serbia is weak, tired and destroyed by NATO attack in 1999 and constant anti-Serbian propaganda.




Hungarian nationalists hold up provocative signs at football matches



Read on the banner: "Slovaks, you will always be our slaves".



Former Hungarian Prime Minister (1998-2002) Viktor Orban with a map of Greater Hungary on the back of his VW



Map of Greater Hungary

Crow

Just who are "Germanics"?
The Hague is in the Netherlands.
How about Belgium, Denmark, France, UK, USA - are they "Germanic"?

Well that sounds bad. It is sad Hungarians are aggressive against their Slavic neighbors who are not a threat to them
Are you sure about the Slavic origin though ? Hungarians are genetically very close Poles, both have R1a haplotype very common. But linguistically they are related Finns, Estonians etc

Genetic fundaments of modern day Hungarians are Slavic. Hungarians are great inter-Slavic mix.

How come to that?

Simply, Hungaria as state replaced previously destroyed Slavic state- Great Moravia, which population was hungariazed then.

Huns who were invaders were fast assimilated from numerous Slavs but in the same time they created linguistic chaos which latter was even increased with arrival of Finnish element. So, Hungarian language was born, with many borrowed Slavic words.


In moment when Huns and Teutons destroyed Moravia, biggest Slavic population was Slovakian. After them were Serbs and then Czechs and Poles.

We must also mention Russian tribes from steppes who settled in Panonia latter.

More latter, during Austro-Hungaria many Poles were displaced from Poland to Hungaria and Voivodina (in today’s Serbia). Also, Serbian element in Hungaria sttrenghten with arriwal of Serbs who escaped in front of Ottoman Turks in XVII century.


Links for articles in case with problem...

SNS: "Extremism" in Hungary a danger
slovakspectator.sk/clanok-24697.html

Police, protestors clash in Hungary
b92.net/eng/news/globe-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=03&dd=16&na v_category=123&nav_id=40162

George Soros, Postmodern Villain
educate-yourself.org/cn/georgesorospostmodernvillian31aug04.shtml

Vojvodina (Serbia): The Next Kosovo?
serbianna.com/columns/savich/064.shtml

Anti-Slovak banners fly as radical row continues
slovakspectator.sk/clanok.asp?vyd=2006033&cl=24469


Poland was/is in military alliance with Hungary even before NATO. That is `Visegrad group` alliance. Slovakians and Serbs are sad and upset because of that.

Hunagraian state is very hostile and open enemy of Slovakia and Serbia. That state exist just to serve German interests in the region. Seams that clash is inevitable. They openly provoke Russia, too (greatley humiliate them).

They are now on the wings of anti-Serbian propaganda and they feel especial strenght from time when they become NATO member.

And, to inform you- Hungarian troops violated territory of Yugoslavia in moment of disolution of country, before civil war (same as Austrians)- to support Croatian secesion but, they retreated fast.


Be careful my Polish brothers and sisters. Hungaria could be great trap.


Slavic South (not only South) need strong and influential Poland desperately!

Awake Poles- flower of Sarmatia!


NOTE: Sarmatian name was form of universal Slavic name, before name Slaviani replaced that name. Last great core of Sarmatia (Slavdom) was on territory of Poland. That`s why Polish tradition preserved memory on `Sarmatian schlachta`.

Latter, more on this.

Crow, your ideas are absolutely terrible, this has no place in 21st century.

You believe that everything bad has been concerted by "Germanics" and Hungarians are dangerous to you. These ideas about "Slavdom" are similarly dated and their sillynes recognized long ago.

How do you expect Serbia to join European union if you have such ideas about nations of Europe?

Disintegration of Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia had internal cause, there can be no doubt about it. I can't see how Germans could cause things like that.

I am not supportive of ideas of Viktor Orban, but I am not afraid of Hungarians. Most people know these ideas have no place in 21st century.

Good that you don`t support Victor Orban because Victor`s ideas belong to history.

Why should you affraid of him?

You, maybe aren`t affected by his ideas but, there are people which are. And, if he try something and people who supports him, Slavs would have all rights to restore territorial connection (lands of Great Moravia) between Slavic South and Slavic West/East. Once and for good we would deal with that problem- created by Roman, Teutonic and Hunish actions against our ancestors.

I hope that nobady won`t complain when Slavs retaliate, because as we can see, nobady (I mean powers of so called West) complains now when they pushing Slavs.

Order of the Dragon

I did not think that Polish had these kinds of activities. But strength in numbers.
Would this be part of the Illuminati?

Stop....it's only your own point of view, am russian, but i ain't consider that our regime is tyrannic!!!

two periods for 4 years....and remember!!! only two periods!!!!

Ha-ha-ha absolute bulsh***t !!!!!

LOL. Everybody knows that Put will choose the next guy anyway.

No we will choose, not him...we have enough candidates without Kremlin's nominations!!!

Nationalism of big states may be horrible but nationalism of the small countries is ridiculous and abominable...

You are all talk Crow....and only talk...big talk I will give you that but only talk nonetheless!

How frustrating that must be...:(

Sure...

crow doesn't understand that...
being german is not same as being nazi

being russian is not same as being soviet

being serb,is not same as being a nazi chetnik

being american is not same thing as being redneck

being albanian is not same as being a muslim terrorist

being turk is not same as being ottoman infantryman from 1400's

being croat is not the same as being ustasha

facts are as follows...
soviets are same as nazis stalin is same nutcase as hitler.

western europe is not a serbian suburb,nor serbs are the noblest of slavs,if we presume they are slavs at all(after 500 years of ottoman turks in serbia it's hard to tell)

serbia is getting smaller because less ''noble'' people want out from it,or already left(kosovo-albanians,sandzak-bosnians,montenegro-montenegrians,vojvod ina-croats)
i think belgrade left only part of serbia,and some parts of sumadija.

and russians just can't help you with that...they didn't help you in 1999,when nato bombardment rightfully punished serbia for genocide.or is it vatican to blame again?

I am glad that you are free of large generalizations. That is very positive. :)

Very intersting discussion. Crow, I have to say you are very convincing in some of your statements, but as someone above has already noted, there are far too many generalizations. Pan-Slavism disappeared over 100 years ago.. never again will it reappear, unfortunately.