What are Polish-Serbian relations like?

It's even not on the news here anymore....so...get over it.

(And build a memorial like the Germans plan to do!)

There are some Serbs of Muslim religion but, in general with islamization, Serbs who become Muslims deflected from being Serbs (and ! Christian Serbs didn`t considered them as Serbs). They were considered as traitors during Ottoman occupation. That way rest of (majority of) Serbian population (national being) was preserved from Turkish cultural and religious influence. Just some of Muslim Serbs, still considered themselves as Serbs. Today, they are aware that they originate from Christian Serbs forcible islamized. From whole Balkans of Serbian origin, we can say that about 5-6% of Serbs was Islamized during Ottoman Turkish occupation. Muslim Serbs, same as Orthodox and Catholic Serbs avoided to geneticaly mix with Turks.

After, Turkish occupation Christian Serbs offered brotherly hand to Muslim Serbs and Serbian state (kingdom, before Yugoslavia was created) invested a lot of to re-establish their national Serbian being without pushing them back into Christianity. Also, some islamized Serbs before Islamization, were of bogomile religion (Christian sekte).

But, i understand what`s your point celinski. With Albanians is different.

They are Muslims in great majority and they were key Turkish player during Ottoman occupation. Some 10-15% of Albanians preserved Christianity, same as Catholic, some as Orthodox. What is most important, Albanians were constitute as nation as Muslims.


no, i am on the north, in Voivodina, Novi Sad

Zoran Vujović was the first victim as a result from the chain reaction of Kosovo.

America should have been impartial to both sides of the negotiation process, so that a true peace accord could have eventually been reached. Imagine yourself in the position of an Albanian negotiatior, when you hear the president of the US, the only superpower in the world, coming out and saying "if the negotiations fail, Kosovo Albanians get independence" why would you even be willing to compromise and make any concessions to the other party? Instead all they had to do was wait and run out the clock, they even refused to negotiate about Kosovo's status saying they will only discuss with Serbia relations as 2 different countries. The fact is U.S. and Britain broke international law by unilaterally recognising Kosovo as an independent state and this was done in an insulting and humilliating way for Serbia. The people are outraged and nothing good can come of this.

The Serbs are really getting the shaft over this Kosovo situation...but, again, the reasons are oil/minerals, heroin & 'geo-strategic' position...I think that in general, Europeans & Americans have been fed ******** on this issue...yes, the Serbs are/were guilty of crimes in Bosnia, but it takes at least two to tango, and the Croats slaughtered
thousands of Serbs there...in Kosovo, it would seem to me that 'Serb atrocities' were a self-defense reaction...the Albanians are run by 'mafia' elements...this whole affair is being run by Euro/Zionist elites...the average American doesn't know who or what an Albanan is.

Lotsa Germans once in Vojvodina...or so I've heard...now where are they all I wonder....

When the Germans broke into the soviet embassy in Berlin in 1941,they were speechless about what they discovered.The Soviets had mashine guns and pistols connected to doors,so they would be activated if sb opened them.They even had a bath full of toxic substances where even bones could be dissolved.In this way the Germans explained some peculiar disappearances of agents in Berlin during the thirties.
Spies had watched people getting into embassy and never getting out.

You can`t compare Germans and Serbs.

Germans are of Serbian origin (refering on well known Northern Serbs) and not the opposite. ;)


you mean, Eastern German Slavs who were bruthaly germanized and then relocated to further spread virus of germanization. Then, they were stooped

just one more Slavic tragedy

A dangerous disease.

Anyway recognition of Kosovo was a knife cut on Serbia and a slap in face for the rest of Balkans.

At the dawn of World War II Hitler offered Yugoslavia a neutrality pact. Serbian and Croatian ministers went to Berlin and signed it. On their return, British intelligence organized a group of Serbian protesters in Belgrade who chanted "better war then a pact", "better grave then a slave" and deposed the King who escaped to London. The next day in 1941 Hitler bombed Belgrade as a result of not upholding the signed deal.

Serbia organised the first anti-fascist resistance on mainland Europe through General Draza Mihailovic, leader of the royalist Chetnik movement who took orders from the King in London. At the beginning he was supported by Winston Churchill who later on in the war switched his support to Tito the communist dictator who was half-Croat, half-Slovenian with a strong Yugoslav orientation, leader of the Partisan movement. After freeing the country from the Nazi's, Tito considered "Volksdeutchers" German colonists in Vojvodina and Italians in Dalmatia and Istria as anti-Yugoslav elements - a 5th colony. This is why he had them expelled and deported. Tito ordered the execution of his opponent Draza Mihailovic and many Serbian Chetnik monarchists as well as Croatian Ustasa who were of pro-fascist orientation. There are many crimes the communists did that we are only finding about today like in Poland the Katyn massacre also for us there is the Bleiburg and Krizni Put.

Umm...Germans are of Serbian origin and then germanized Serbs???

Whoa...where can I buy some of that logic? :)

Yes, dangerous indeed.



Please expand on this, Crow?

Ja ja...how predictable.

Nobody gave a toss then about the fate of 12 Million german civilians because it was so short after the war.

And the Serbs have not much sympathy internationally either
hence nobody gives a toss about how they feel about Kosovo.

As I said...build a center or what not...you will not get anything back!

True, but different cirumstances, were they not?

It's very comparable:

War
ethnic tensions
Germany lost more than 1/4 of her territory
ethnic cleansing
New countries /new borders

Germany moved on....

PS: One of the big points in Hitlers campaign 1933 was to get land back which was stolen by the allied victors in the Treaty of Versailles. As new countries like Czechoslovakia were founded and Millions of Germans put between hostile majorities...very comparable!

Hitler had many fans betweens these people...

Yes,but nobody punished Germany when Sudetia and Austria(with german populations) were integrated.It was punished when it expanded to Poland,France,Norway,Balkans,Russia etc.Serbia fought for regions populated by Serbs.

Have any of us really moved on, or do we all morn for a past?

Most have moved on Celinski....the world is NOT like on forum boards! :)

Serbia today is in the same position as Germany after the treaty of Versailles, I said that an imposed solution didn't work then neither will it work now. Serbia today is a breeding ground for right wing extremists, who have said that the time stops on 17.02.2008 and the new dawn will not come until Kosovo is restored. The democrats who are in power will find it very difficult to control the situation and not to be overthrown by the radicals. Especially in the unjust way the whole Kosovo situation was handled in violation of international law by America and a few European countries.

So now it is degraded?

You would be surprised on how close it is...

Yes this is true but look at the new memorials showing up. Today for the first time in history, the full truth is coming to light. Well, not full, as Russia still will not release all info. In the end history of Poland shall show the numbers of Roman/Greek Catholic's that fell victims and were never counted.

Forum boards are a step in understanding our roots. In 1946 a big shield was placed over Poland and the outside could not see in. Today to speak to a nation and say, Stalin was far worse than Hitler to me is altering many peoples view of history they were taught.

Then I can tell you the outcome of that development right away:

Serbia will lose even more land and people and in the end be the pariah of Europe!

You better let it go now....

Crow I told you previously when you state such a claim, you have to elaborate it.

When the Serbs settled in Europe they established a state called "White Serbia" which is a territory in between present day Poland and Germany. From there, the half who stayed are called Sorbs, the other half Serbs moved to the Balkans and established 3 kingdoms Bosnia, Zeta(Montenegro) and Raska( present day Serbia).

The German emperor had a policy of forced germanization of all Slavs who lived in Eastern Germany. For example, the city of Liepzig was originally founded by the Sorbs.

Austria-Hungary outlawed in Vojvodina the Serbs from having last names ending with VIĆ or IĆ.

Luk, Luk brate moj what you talking about? Do you realy believe in that BS about Serbs (about Serbian crimes) that BBC, CNN, DEUTSCHE WELLE, ITN, etc false media spread about us. Because those BS you talking like that?!

Serbs always choosed only Mother Slavia, even when both- Russians and Poles failed. We never faild and from hostile non-Slavs we were punished and they still punishing us. Our hopes, our tears, our blood goes only for Slavdom.


...more on connections between Serbs and Western Slavs.

Read about Serbian role on the Polish path to independance. Proof that Catholic Poles could relied on Serbs over pure Slavic connections, no matter that majority of Serbs are Orthodox Slavs. Proof that Serbs were able to criticize Russians when Russia failed.

When sons of Poland needed them, Racowie (medieval designation for Serbs) were there - from Grunwald to Kosciusko uprising. And in the same time we considered Russians as brothers, relaxing tensions in Slavic world. Serbs- crusificed because of loyalty to Mother Slavia.

Ilija Garasanin's "Nacertanije" - A REASSESSEMENT
by Institute for Balkan Studies, Serbian Academy of Arts and Sciences, Belgrade
http://www.rastko.org.yu/istorija/batakovic/batakovic-nacertanije_eng. html

I feel that they have no choice and you are right. It just seems there should be more ways to assure Serb's that there can be a better way to handle the transition.

Now that's a far cry from "Germans are of Serbian origin!" :)

Don't you all know Adam and Eve were actually Serbian? Geez.

Worse would be mass expulsions of the Serbs in Kosovo who stay loyal to Serbia and won't give the new country their allegiance.
(5th columns anybody?)

Worse would be no neutral peace keepers in the country protecting the new minority.

Right now there is no better way to handle that...

The snake was albanian.

And there you go. Can't get more megalomaniacal than that.