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What are Polish-Serbian relations like?


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Sasha
Edited by: Sasha  Sep 28, 08, 03:33  #901

Dekameron:

if you cant take a hint by the tone in their media, foreign diplomacy and internal attitude to their russian citizens then i have no questions



Foreign diplomacy is a politician stuff. I'm ok with that... at present it's kinda fashion to dislike Russia dancing to the american tune. As for internal attitude I disagree... I've never felt like that even though I don't speak Lithuanian. Some people were not very friendly... but I doubt they would be my friends, even if I spoke it and were Lithuanian by my mind.

Dekameron:

Not at all, given that Russia occupied Lithuania for quite a while and we all know just how the russian occupation looks like there's reasons enough to hate


With that approach you don't leave any chance for our future relationships. Probably it's better to say you don't leave a room for yourself in our future relationships. I'm sure both in Russia and in Poland there're people who're ready to change that poor state of affairs, to make a first step meeting each other halfway.

Dekameron:

Russians follow their foreign policy without question which in my book makes them barbaric, in any civil country a former KGB agent would never become president.


You merely don't want to understand Russians. Could you pls name me at least one European country that's experienced as many revolutions in the past century as Russia has? Does that mean we've had "no question" to our government? Russians overthrew communism dreaming about democracy, they got it and you know I can't blame Russians for getting rid of eltsyn's lame democracy and I strongly believe that put-med era will come to an end soon too... and then we'll probably have a really nice candidat to vote for. Step by step we're getting better.

Lukasz:

Tadic is supported by majority...


Firstly 3% gap with Nikolic is not an overwhelming majority, secondly the overwhelming majority of those who voted for him are ethnical minorities (you know who I mean), thirdly judging by the moods in Serbian society figures are fabricated.

Lukasz:

Poles like Russians


Pleasant to hear but... I don't feel it. Or if you call that "poles like" then I may say "Russians adore Poles". Do you need any quotation of your "love" or you may see it yourself?

UPD: P.S. Dekameron... one more thing... you're fond of talks about Russian "liberation" of Poland that we've terrorized you along the history. I think you should see it from the other point of view... that's a history, everything's happened, at some ages we were saved by miracle from your occupation. Who knows what would be if you occupied us? Probably we would exchange our roles... barbaric, savage psheks who don't know how to flush the toilet and poor russkies with a constant Russian victimhood and strong hatred towards poles (but with a good beer I guess). Thank history (or Russians)... they saved you of being an empire like Swedens thank us for their defeat in 1242.

 
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Dekameron
  Sep 28, 08, 03:50  #902

Sasha:

Pleasant to hear but... I don't feel it. Or if you call that "poles like" then I may say "Russians adore Poles". Do you need any quotation of your "love" or you may see it yourself?

He's right though, most Poles like Russians.
Sasha:

You merely don't want to understand Russians

Oh i understand Russians, i've got plenty of russian friends, i've traveled through Russia not to mention i'm a former student of international affairs so there's basis to what i say.

Russians are friendly and warm but at the same time have a twisted sense of pride, there's no real intellectual elite in Russia since its been murdered or supressed in the last century, the entire russian populace is heavily indoctrinated with false history and outright propaganda which creates a nation with dangerous pride and agressive brutal outward policy.

Russia had potential to overshadow all powers as the proudest country, currently you are a country with history of abuse, murder and backwardness and quite frankly the current russian national awareness is directly descended from that history.
Sasha:

Could you pls name me at least one European country that's experienced as many revolutions in the past century as Russia has?

You had one major revolution in which you exchanged one tyrant for another tyrant, destroyed major part of your cultural and intellectual heritage but basically little changed.
Sasha:

Does that mean we've had "no question" to our government?

Look how it turned out.
Sasha:

overthrew communism dreaming about democracy

And today they're an authocratic state ruled by secret services interlinked with mafia and mlitaristic circles which murder imprison or suppress all significant opposition.
Sasha:

Step by step we're getting better.

Yes but these are very small steps and people like Putin or Miedviediev can put you back on the bad track with one move.

Dont get me wrong i recognize Russia as great and powerfull just not very responsible with its power, quite frankly i believe that before Russia shoulders its true potential as a stable and proud country we're going to have another european conflict with Russia being the new 3rd Reich.

 
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Lukasz
Edited by: Lukasz  Sep 28, 08, 05:31  #903

Sasha:

Pleasant to hear but... I don't feel it. Or if you call that "poles like" then I may say "Russians adore Poles". Do you need any quotation of your "love" or you may see it yourself?



Poles like one Russian or two Russians, when we talk about Russia it looks much different.
Russian litertaure and culture is very popular in Poland.

There is magazine about Poland in Russia

НOВАЯ ПOЛЬША - Last time KGB Putin try to close it and I think he will be successful but now you can buy it.

 
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Crow
  Sep 30, 08, 14:59  #904

People really need to keep their eye on them, on those Albanians:

Second Man Charged Over Park Rape

http://www.harrowobserver.co.uk/west-london-news/local-harrow-news/200 8/09/25/second-man-charged-over-park-rape-116451-21902047/
Sep 25 2008 By Ian Proctor

Jeton Jashari, an 18-year-old Kosovan from Toorack Road, Wealdstone, appeared at Harrow Magistrates' Court this morning (Thursday) to answer charges of rape and theft of a mobile phone. He was remanded back in custody, having been arrested yesterday at home.


If there is justice in Poland, Tusk should be arrested and persecuted for took part in creation of Greater Albania- criminal narco-NATO state. Tusk should be jailed as Slavic traitor and great vermin. Put him in jail with some of his Albanian friends so that he can expiriance wild monstrous sex.

 
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southern
  Sep 30, 08, 15:23  #905

Crow:

with some of his Albanian friends so that he can expiriance wild monstrous sex.


Albanian terror.

 
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Anna Kowalik
  Nov 23, 08, 10:17  #906

I am halfpolish and halfserbian I wonder what serbia thinks of poland and poland thinks of serbia ?

 
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Filios1
  Nov 23, 08, 10:29  #907

Anna Kowalik:

Anna Kowalik


Please ask Crow. He will give you a VERY detailed response.

 
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Dersu Uzala
Edited by: Dersu Uzala  Nov 28, 08, 23:39  #908

Anna Kowalik:

...I wonder...


Interesting question Anna. First off, wonderful combination of Pan-Slavic heritage.

I'm not quite sure about the present day mutual feelings so I can only offer a glimpse of the past. Back in the early seventies, in times when Serbia was an integral part of Yugoslavia, I had a privilege to venture to Poland on several occasions. Oddly enough, our Yugoslavian (I'm a Serb born in Belgrade in the sixties) elementary schools had wonderful summer and winter vacation programs, and almost every child in school could afford it. Children of white-collar families more so than their blue-collar compatriots. Between ages 9-11 I went skiing in Poland with my school 3 times. Żywiec & Zakopane. Needless to say, I loved it. Venturing to a foreign country does have it's charms for a nine year old boy. Unfortunately, at the time Poland did not do so well and Yugoslavia did. This in turn created a bit of 'superiority complex' with some of our kids and professors. We fully knew the extent of Polish dependency and abuse by Russian rule. Some of us felt sorry for Polish circumstances, some other were thinking 'serves you right for not standing up to mighty Soviets'. Yugoslavia did stand up to mighty Soviets but only with western help. Not to mention that it's much easier to prevent Russian excursion to Yugoslavia half a Europe away, than it was for Poland to defend from a neighboring SSSR. Still, many felt that it was your own undoing and the fact that Poles are Catholic Slavic brothers did not help your cause with Orthodox Slavic brothers. Serbs, throughout history, had quite a few collision courses with their closest brothers from Croatia and Bosnia, once these peoples converted to Catholicism and/or Islam. It's the elephant memory syndrome, Serbs hardly forget. I don't think they ever forgive, unfortunately. We see Orthodoxy as everyone's divine right, and we can't fathom how other nations can't see it. Other nations of course see other religions as their divine right.

Going back to story, Poland was beautiful. People, places, everything. We didn't care much for the food, but now I know better. Things were really scarce back then in Poland. It was a very difficult survival for Poles, yet they seemed to go about it with dignity that I still remember to this day. I remember studying Polish history afterward and I just couldn't fathom what had happened. Here was one of the most glorious nations in Europe, Slavic of all things, with historically great relationship with western world, Germans notwithstanding. We did read Taras Bulba in elementary school as part of mandatory literary curriculum but that book hardly championed Polish point of view. It's really about Kozaks from river Don and their part in Russo-Polish wars back in the, what, 16-17th century.

So I bought numerous Polish knight figurines (God, I remeber falling in love with Polish Hussars perked on their horses with them wings attached on the back, you Poles know what I'm talking about). It still graces my childhood bedroom which I abandoned ages ago. Personally, I was never too excited by the whole Solidarność movement and Lech Wałęsa, but what did I know. Or care. I was hoping Poland would take it's righteous place in European scheme of things. I mean, there are almost 40 million Poles in Poland alone and about a quarter more living abroad. Of which I know a few and have the privilege of being called a friend.

I remember vividly the day we went on excursion (a day break from skiing) to Oświęcim. I've never heard of the name, but we've all been taught about German concentration camps as well as our own (there were concentration camps in Yugoslavia during Nazi occupation, unfortunately the worst were actually ran by a certain Croatian military formations, our own brothers in blood). We went through the town and marched into this field with gated area, somewhere in woods. I read "Arbeit macht frei" and it suddenly dawned on me. I've seen this gate many times in pictures and on TV. I knew Auschwitz is somewhere in south of Poland. They played us documentaries that Allied soldiers got their hands on after camp 'liberation'. Hideous German footage as well. A foreigner such as myself could never feel more Polish than that day. We understood that most victims were Jewish, but they were Polish first and foremost regardless of religion. It was Poland that kindly let them settle in vast numbers in their own country, they shared the same faith for centuries and Poles eventually suffered for it grievously, alongside Jews. No wonder Israel pays special tribute to Poles alone in Yad Vashem.

We visited Krakow and Warszaw on separate occasions. I preferred Krakow. Especially that old Market Square. I went to a monumental church but forgot it's name. It's sort of Krakow's legendary (dare I say Gothic style) cathedral. There were sarcophagi of ancient Polish knights and I used to sit there and reminisce about the glory of these people. I mean, having a sarcophagus/tomb in the midst of a glorious cathedral, that says something about persona. Granted, I wasn't overly religious person, I was more impressed with the deeds these noble knights performed the way I had perceived them (when you're nine or ten you think they salvaged a damsel in distress from the dragon, you really don't think it's an homage to a knight for, say, slaying Muslims...I always found religious wars 'not-so-kosher'; there's always an ulterior motive). Oddly, and I can't explain it to this day, I found Catholic churches speaking to me more than Orthodox. The way they are built and lit. Make no mistake, I am Orthodox Serb and will remain so for eternity. It does humble one's soul nevertheless. We Serbs like to think the Known World owes us, as it were. Or at least, the Western World. They (westerners) live in relative peace due to our suffering at the gates of Islamic enemy war machine. When you grow up you realize it's a 'great unknown'. Things are not always what they seem to be.

I think you will realize by now, Anna, that I feel akin to Polish people. Perhaps my Serbian brothers are unaware of Polish greatness, we're but a child nation waiting to be awaken after many, many centuries of sleep, as if having our finger pricked by a spindle like in that old story of 'Sleeping Beauty'. We have not fully awaken yet, and we're far from beautiful. I have a similar feeling about Polska and Polacy. You have only started to wake after centuries of oblivion.

As my adopted American brothers say: "Godspeed".


"Those who don't know, and they don't know that they do not know, they are stupid, stay away from them."
"Those who don't know, and they know that they do not know, they are children, teach them."
"Those who know, and they don't know that they know, they are asleep, awake them."
"Those who know, and they know that they know, they are wise, follow them."

~ ancient proverb

 
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Prince
Edited by: Prince  Dec 1, 08, 17:37  #909

I am against Serbia in EU. They are going to support much different ideas than we support.

 
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Crow
  Dec 2, 08, 09:37  #910

Prince:

I am against Serbia in EU.

thank you

 
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lesser
  Dec 2, 08, 15:24  #911

We don't need Serbia in the EU, what we really need is Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Indonesia. China and India would be welcome as well.

 
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Sasha
  Dec 2, 08, 15:25  #912

lesser:

We don't need Serbia in the EU, what we really need is Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Indonesia. China and India would be welcome as well.


Russia?! :) I'm just asking...

 
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lesser
  Dec 2, 08, 15:28  #913

From Russia we only want Tatarstan and Chechnya. The rest is too Russian and we don't like Russians! :)

 
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Sasha
  Dec 2, 08, 15:36  #914

lesser:

The rest is too Russian and we don't like Russians! :)


;( *taking offence and sobbing go to buy flowers for Lubimaja (read "Poland")*

 
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lesser
  Dec 2, 08, 15:48  #915

Well, if Russia become "true democracy" (LOL) even us psheks could not stop you from joining. However something else could stop you, more such people like Sarkozy in the EU and we will have a communist regime quickly. Some criteria for candidate members might change.

PS: Everything above is true only if I rightfully think that democracy and communism are two different systems and not one and the same. :) I just expect some posters will claim soon that people's democracy is just different model of 'true democracy'. :)

 
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Seanus ♦ GOLD MEMBER
  Dec 2, 08, 15:50  #916

Sarkozy is just a maker of toothless agreements and convener of fruitless meetings that line the pockets of worthless bureaucrats.

 
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Bratwurst Boy
  Dec 2, 08, 16:07  #917

I don't think Sarkozy will survive the next french elections...Carla Bruni or not....he grates on peoples nerves!

 
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Sasha
  Dec 2, 08, 16:08  #918

lesser:

Well, if Russia become "true democracy" (LOL) even us psheks could not stop you from joining.


Righty... On the other hand if you (psheks doesn't sound good) had a "true democracy", you wouldn't prevent us from joining at least by methods that are currently used (all that of course if we hypothetically imagine Russia wants to join EU).

 
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Prince
Edited by: Prince  Dec 2, 08, 16:13  #919

Sasha:

Righty... On the other hand if you (psheks doesn't sound good) had a "true democracy", you wouldn't prevent us from joining at least by methods that are currently used (all that of course if we hypothetically imagine Russia wants to join EU).


getQuotation('Sasha');


Talk to Bratwursts (germans) if they want Russians in EU :))))



France is memeber of military structures in NATO. Sarkozy has interesting competition with Merkel in EU (leadership) ... :)

 
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Bratwurst Boy
  Dec 2, 08, 16:31  #920

Prince:

Talk to Bratwursts (germans) if they want Russians in EU :))))


Before Turkey anytime! :)

 
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Prince
Edited by: Prince  Dec 2, 08, 16:36  #921

Bratwurst Boy:

Before Turkey anytime! :)


:)

 
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lesser
  Dec 2, 08, 16:39  #922

Sasha, We are not democratic and we will hardly ever become, neither the EU. This is just a slogan to make people feel better. So if Russian establishment would really be so stupid and wanted to join, everything would depend from shady talks in Brussels.

 
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Sasha
  Dec 2, 08, 17:09  #923

lesser:

Sasha, We are not democratic and we will hardly ever become, neither the EU. This is just a slogan to make people feel better


I never get tired to hear sober points... especially the last sentence. Nice, lesser. Don't know why Prince can't comprehend that yet.

 
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lesser
Edited by: lesser  Yesterday, 16:11  #924

Prince:

France is memeber of military structures in NATO.


I missed this statement yesterday. Wrong, France withdrew from military structures in 1966.

Prince:

Sarkozy has interesting competition with Merkel in EU (leadership) ... :)


They are as much important like Bush in the US.

Sasha:

Don't know why Prince can't comprehend that yet.


What could we expect from PO voter? :))

 
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Prince
Edited by: Prince  Yesterday, 16:18  #925

lesser:

I missed this statement yesterday. Wrong, France withdrawn from military structures in 1966.


http://wyborcza.pl/1,76842,5086575.html

Do struktur wojskowych NATO wraca za to po 42 latach Francja.


 
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lesser
Edited by: lesser  Yesterday, 16:41  #926

If you read this article then you know that currently France is outside of military structure. Perhaps they will join soon but this is not the case yet.

 
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