What are Polish-Serbian relations like?

:)

thank you man, for link and for nice words

i welcome you in this thread with this song of Sindidun`s children...
Orthodox Celts - Star Of The County Down



Surrender life to Slavia, soul to Christ, and honor to nobody!

Let`s make this discussion interesting

I would now give you few quotations/statements in connection with Serbs, given from some German and some Polish politicians/sources during Civil War in former Yugoslavia. Later, I would give you Net source. Just, trust me for now

So, were/are Serbs that evil that they united German and Polish politicians to condemn them or German politicians/sources just played one of their usual historic role (spreading anti-Serbian war propaganda) and some Polish politicians just chooses to obey to German politicians?

Let`s investigate, shell we?

Here it goes. One German politician said...

KLAUS KINKEL: "The Serbs should be brought to their knees!" (a statement given on May 27th 1992.) "Yes, heroism! We have already succeeded in rendering Yugoslavia obedient: on April 7th 1941in a blitzkrieg against Yugoslavia we have destroyed apart of Belgrade in an undertake named "The Court Punishes". In light of that tradition we see the participation in AWACS flights over Bosnia and in NATO mission... The People´s Society knows how important peace is for Germany. We have proved this twice in this century. Heroism is today, as 50 years ago, a virtue of our soldiers. We are here again!" (Military review "Bundesvehr 2000.",1994)

Now, one politician of Polish origin...

"The war was waged for the territories and conquests as well as for the settling a couple of centuries old scores. Serbian hegemony and the international cowardice without a precedent were in question. A man shudders at the mere thought of the proportions of all this." (GEOGE ZARUTSKY, an expert for Central Europe in "Freedom House", Washington Post)

one more, German/Austrian...

"The bandit bosses as Aidid in Somalia and Milosevic in Serbia, have the same ideology and act in the same way. If the West loses in former Yugoslavia that will be a victory over, not only the totalitarian government in Belgrade, but over all bandits in the world. (OTTO VON HABSBOURG, in a Spanish journal ABC, May 1994.)

Now, Polish source...

"The Serbs only understand the language of force." (ZYCIE WARSZAWY, a Polish paper, February 1994.)

Then, German, again...

"Besides, The Bosnian Serbs have always been and always will be just a gang of bandits and killers." (JOCHAN FRITZ, the manager of The International Press Institute and the owner of the DIE PRESSE from Vienna)

Polish...

"Ethnical cleansing is not the consequence of war but its reason d´étre." (TADEUS MAZOVIECKY)

German...

Germany share with you the joy of the military success and pays you the compliments in this war. I must say that even the analysts who know more then myself, could not have foreseen such a swift and glorious action." (Dr.ENDER, German ambassador in Zagreb, on Croatian radio during his visit to Knin, August 1995.)

Polish, again...

"We cannot assist in the transportation of bodies. We will not assist people in their bizarre rituals." (KRIS JANOWSKI, spokesman for the UNHCR, commenting Bosnia Serbs leaving Sarajevo and bearing the coffins of their loved ones in winter 1996.)

German...

"The horse farm in Lipik, where widely known Lipitzaner horses have been grown, is now out of its white horses...When the Serbs overtook the place they brought them out of the stables and killed them one by one..." (GAUDENC BAUMAN, in TAGBLADT)

Polish source...

In one of his essays, David Reef wrote that Serbs kill Bosniaks as some sort of subhuman. They will not give up their attempts to commit genocide because they haven't been punished for this genocide or for the numerous genocides before this one... (TADESUSZ MAZOWIECKI, interview to the Muslim newspaper)

German...

STEFAN SCHWARZ, CDU DEPUTY IN BUNDESTAG: "Experiments on humans are being conducted again, like in the Third Reich under Mengele. Serb doctors implanted dog embryos in Bosnian women." (In "Die Tagesthemen", janauary 1993.)

Polish...

TADEUSZ MAZOWIECKI: "The ethnic cleansing was not a result of the war, but rather its goal. In many areas the Serbian goal had already been accomplished: by killings, beatings, rape, demolition of homes and threats. The Moslems and the Croats who remained in Serb-controlled territory, lived in fear." (On "Voice of AMERICA", 14th November 1994.)

Then, German...

HERTA MULLER: "A ghastly nationalistic self-image has been created, like the map of Greater Serbia which Milosevic kept in his drawer for some time now, and which has covered graveyards for three years. Milosevic and Karadzic, two faces that frighten us afresh every day we see them, two mass murderers, who merely thanks to their position as warlords have managed to acquire "prestige" with a population whose reason has been eclipsed, which applies to itself the definition of a race in order to be able to feel like a nation". (In Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, 24 april 1994.)


NOTE: There is some sum up of negative statements about Serbs given in Polish media. Fortunately, majority of Polish media, politicians and sources were rather neutral (by Serbian perception) on situation in case with Civil War in former Yugoslavia, some even suggested that Serbs could be right.

Poles

please don`t take part in this...


NATO TO FORM KOSOVO ARMY

Published on February 09, 2008
http://www.armtown.com/news/en/pan/20080209/24813/

---

In case with previous post [in case with comments of some Polish and German politicians/sources]...

A SMALL ANTHOLOGY OF RACISM AND CHAUVINISM AT THE END OF MILLENIUM (from a book in preparation, publisher JUGOISTOK)

03/11/2000, by Zoran Petrovic
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38ca890f59f9.htm

Are this band Serbs? Why are they singing an Irish song? Im genuinely confused!

hehe, you aren't alone..

URL
here is the explanation;)

Thank you Miranda : )

Hello Crow - Seeing as you posted some Irish music I feel I should give you something back which you might be interested in. I came across this BBC documentary about US and British politics recently. It charts the rise of populism in the west in general under the guise of the so-called "free market", based on the teachings of Sigmund Freud, and more particularly, his nephew, who invented the industry of public relations in the US. This is Part 4.

At one point (42mins) the documentary reveals how American foreign policy during the 90s was being formulated. The interviewee refers to bombing of Bosnia by the US but I presume he means Serbia. Maybe you have heard this before, maybe not.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1122532358497501036

This documentary gives a good insight into the mindset of modern western consumer society. If you really want to understand why this so-called "free-market" society is in decline you or anybody else who is interested should watch this video, especially Part 3 which is attached here.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6111922724894802811

I don't know what it has to do with Polish-Serbian relations but I tend to doubt that you watched whole part 3. They praised Reagan's politics, he was very liberal minded guy. But this is off-topic...

I just followed the link that Crow posted on the Spanish Civil War thread. The discussion had turned to the issue of the war in the former Yugoslavia. The link I have provided above at (Part 4 - 42 mins) gives an insight into how foreign policy was being formulated in the USA during the 90s and refers specifically to the decision taken to bomb what is described in the video as Bosnia. Part 3 is relevant to part 4 as it outlines how the so called "free-market" has manipulated people in the west into acting in a certain way, based on psycho-analytical methods pioneered by Freud. This form of manipulation of people by the those involved at the top end of the so called "free-market" culminated in a form of democracy which resulted in decisions such as the bombing of the former Yugoslavia being based on little more than vague research into the "feelings" of housewives in middle America.

It is therefore relevant to the previous discussion which had developed with regard to the war in the former Yugoslavia, but I agree, has little to do with Polish-Serb relations. Perhaps the mods could find a relevant home for it. Perhaps also they or Crow could close the link to this thread from the Spanish Civil war discussion.

Scandal!

Ehhh, i wanted to eat my PC when sow this on the Net. First what was on my mind is ``good that Serbian media didn`t gave publicity to this sad event``... but it would stay remembered as dark day when official Poland sent troops to invade Serbian territory, in order to satisfy her obligations in NATO. Like that it isn`t enough that NATO bombarded Serbian civilians and occupied Serbian Kosovo (no matter that Polish role on Kosovo can be described as positive from the aspect of local Serbs).

No, Racowie didn't`t deserve this from Poland. NATO can`t be that worth


Provocative raid into Serbia leads to clash between US troops and civilians

By Chris Marsden
7 April 2000
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/apr2000/koso-a07.shtml



One more idiotic news. Didn`t heard for that in Serbian public media (Albanian source- they are of course happy to confirm that Poles srew Serbs)...

Polish provocation in Belgrade

Tuesday, 27 November 2007
http://www.newkosovareport.com/20071127228/Culture-and-Sports/Polish-p rovocation-in-Belgrade.html



Hey people, Slavdom is in deeper sh** then i thought

lol,love it,see,when the whole world hates you,you must be doing somthing wrong :) Just wondering,in a world wide pole who would be tops for hate,USA or Serbia...hhmmm?

yes, i believe that you are happy. Britain holding Poland for `horns`.

and, Russian elite can be `happy` too see how Russian hegemonic politics greatly failed among Western Slavs and how, among else, because of stupid Russian mistakes official Poland falling into treachery of Slavdom.

They weren't as stupid as you think Crow. They were cold, and calculated..

Gavrilo Princip !!!! Where are you ???!!!

he was tortured in jail and then he died. At least he died on Slavic ground in Czeska in Terezin jail

This poem Gavrilo wrote, with spoon, on the wall of jail, before he dies

"Sporo se vreme vuce, [time goes slowly]
Sve je danas k'o i juce [today is same, as was yesterday]
I sutra se isto sprema. [tomorrow would be the same, too]
Al' pravo je rekao pre [but, truth was said...]
Zerajic soko sivi [...by Zarajic, grey falcon]
Ko zeli da umre [who wants to die]
On neka zivi, [let he live]
A ko zeli da zivi [but who want to live]
On neka mre"! [let he died!]

- Princip to the prison governor while being moved to another prison...

"There is no need to carry me to another prison. My life is already ebbing away. I suggest that you nail me to a cross and burn me alive. My flaming body will be a torch to light my Serbian people and all Slavs on their path to freedom."

See this
Gavrilo Princip
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip

Fate of the Gavrilo Princip museums



Isn`t it example how winners punished Serbs who didn`t obey? Isn`t it? Seams that German players in the region won

Poles,

Balkan Serbs need your help now. This is serious and much above all religius differences among Slavs, you should know that.

Slavic borders are endangered by hostile foreigners. That`s the very essence of Kosovo issue, as always.

Here is what Poles can do:

- organize public protests against destruction of Serbian state, in Poland and everywhere where Poles live. Demand respect of Internationaly established order and treties between coutries, garanted by EU.

- urge, via Polish connections in Catholic Church . Prevent that Vatican support separation of Kosovo

- in short... do whatevery you can to support Serbs- your Racowie

God bless Poland! Godd bless Serbia! Protect Slavs, Christ- our Lord!


Remind yourself Poles! In the honest name of Sobieski, don`t turn your heads from us! Look who hurry to be first to recognize separation of Kosovo...

"Turkey will recognize Kosovo within 48 hrs"

16 February 2008 | 12:46 | Source: B92, Beta
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/world-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=02&dd=16&na v_id=47748

Let's allow Serbia recognize Kurdistan then.
What different could be expected from Turkey?In fact Albanias never wanted to separate from Ottoman Empire.They voted to stay within Turkey after WW1 but Italy pressed them to be independant.(It had its plans for the region).
Kosovo became independant of Ottoman Empire due to serbian fighters not due to albanian ottoman cooperators.

The Ukraine and Belarus need our support but do not forget Georgia.



The meeting, coupled with vocal warnings in Russia's Parliament that
it would react strongly to a declaration of independence by Kosovo,
threatened to push the Kremlin and the West into a fresh and
potentially volatile standoff over the status of separatist
territories in Georgia.




http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/world/europe/16breakaway.html?

My God, what would Poland decide?! I hope that Polish diplomacy see German trap...

Rumors about change of Poland's stand on Kosovo unconfirmed

11:16, February 16, 2008
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/90853/6355214.html

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i agree. Too long Serbs and Russians reatreated. I think that we now must retaliate

As a response on agressive Turkish act, Serbia and Russia should recognize Kurdistan as an independent state and demand that the Turks halt its occupation.

I am absolutely sure that Bulgaria would follow and support us.

---

Germany, on the edge of triumph...

U.S. and Germany Would Recognize Kosovo

http://geography.about.com/b/2008/01/20/us-and-germany-would-recognize -kosovo.htm


NOTE- Croatia would recognize Kosovo, instead to stay out of obviously conflict situation

Croatia, Macedonia, BiH divergent on Kosovo policy

16:16, February 15, 2008
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/90853/6355069.html

---

EU does not have united position on Kosovo...

EU and Kosovo recognition: Individual decisions

16 February 2008 | 11:49 -> 16:48 | Source: B92
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=02&dd=16 &nav_id=47745


Japan not to recognize Kosovo

February 15, 2008 7:16 AM
http://www.serbianna.com/news/2008/01352.shtml

Kosovo is a part of Serbia. Only UN security council can change the borders and Russians won't let that happen.

What makes it a part of Serbia Greg?

When 90 percent Poles would be ruled by 10 percent Germans for centuries would you also admit it's naturally german country and the Germans would of course have every right also further to rule over the Poles?
Don't you see how bigot all that is? Especially as Poles so love to talk about freedom and independence???
I thought ESPECIALLY the Poles could understand the Kossovans (or whatever they are called).
Or is it because they are muslims? I'm surely not a friend of muzzies but this shouldn't be
a religious or ethnic case as in "we christian slavs against reason and common sense!"

Oh and isn't it interesting that in THIS case Poles are friends with Russia again? Why do you think you need that Anti-missile shield when you are so chum with each other...

PS: Russia or the UN will do nothing! The independence will be declared tomorrow and the US and the EU will recognize them, the rest is already history...

Good points there, Bratwurst. I have to say I agree. This would surely be hypocritical to criticize the new state of Kossovo. However, perhaps some of the underlying issues are what leaves many people with bad tastes in their mouthes. You cannot really compare Poland with Kossovo, as Poland was a nation of their own for so many years, and when they were divided up between Austria, Germany and Russia, they still had that taste of democracy. They wanted everything that was taken away from them. Kossovo is like a fruit fly, they came from nowhere.

It is good Russia and Poland finally agree on something.

P.S Ja, Rußland und Polen in diesem situatiom ist hilflos

All nation states were a "fruit fly" (great image here btw.) :) at one point in their history.
For Germany it was as late as 1871. That shouldn't be a reason....

I can fully understand the geopolitical reasons of Russia of wanting to have control over what they percieve as their "backyard" but I don't get the Poles....
Russia would be against Polands independence as they are now against Kossovo..but you agree with them!

Na ja...kann mir ja eigentlich alles egal sein!

haha, ahh ja, I wish all Germans were always as "disinterested" as you!

Tusk has some kind of agenda with the Russians. He is trying to impress them by siding with them on this issue. He is attempting to bend over backwards for Germany, Russia AND the U.S, which is not possible. It is true that Russia would be against Polands independence, hehe, and they were, but I guess what is done, is done, and now they are pretending to be friends.

Believe me, they are! (At least in this Kossovo question). :)

Will the "official" Poland recognize the new state?

Yes, this is true :)

I just read this, where it states that Poland may join Germany, Italy, and France as countries who instantly recognize Kossovo as a state, which I now don't understand. Other countries like Greece and the Netherlands will delay their announcment.
I don't know how reliable this source is:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3376887.ece

We will see what will happen so or so...

Just a moment, please


First of all, Albanians were populated on Kosovo during Turkish occupation of Southern Balkan Serbian regions. Then, Turks used Albanians as tool against Serbs (many Serbs were killed or expeled from Kosovo).

Then, Serbs liberated Kosovo from Turks and let Albanians to stay. To underline, ethnic balance between Kosovo- Metohija Serbs and Albanians before WWII existed. During WWII, Kosovo was under Italian occupation and Itallians also used Albanians against Serbs (many Serbs were masacred or expled from Kosovo by Alb.). After, WWII just some Serbs were able to return on Kosovo during communist dictature (for `peace in house` reasons).

Still, ethnic balance existed even after WWII but then, due to much batter life conditions in Yugoslavia/Serbia then in Albania, many Albanians from Albania escaped from Albania and settled on Kosovo- illegaly. Ethnic balance finnaly crashed in the favour of Albanians but, still great number of Serbs lived on Kosovo-Metohija.

In 1980 Albanian first time rebelled, in order to separate form Yugoslavia. Clashed with federal police and army...

Then, when Yugoslav Civil War started they in great masses were voluteeers who faight side by side with Arabic and Bosnian Mujaheedines and Croatian ustashe. They rebelled again on Kosovo and situation escalates in period 1997-1999 when NATO openly intervened on the behalf of Albanians, atacked us. Many Serbs were killed by NATO during bombardment, killed due to attacks of Albanians/mujaheedines. Then after, many Serbs were massacred and ethnicaly cleanced by Albanians after Yugoslav army and Serbian police reatreated (according to threties with NATO!), from Kosovo-Metohija. NATO didn`t protect them. In the same time, in front of NATO and with NATO logistics many Alabanians- citizens of Albania were populated on Kosovo-Metohija (same as Arabic mujaheedines were populated in Bosnia). Ethnic balance was finaly absolutely destroyed on Kosovo-Metohija in favour of Albanians.


So, Bratworst- German boy, seams to me that situation in case with Kosovo population, isn`t black and white. It`s obvious that ethnic balance between Serbs nad Albanians was finaly destroyed due to NATO militarely intervention. No need to further comment. Conclusion is obvious


i elaborated problem. Read above


we shell see!

i see free Kurdistan, free Lusatia, free Serb Republic in Bosnia, etc, etc, etc.... plus Kosovo would stay Serbia

Germany would learn not to push Slavs. You made mistake (as usualy in your violant history), first destroying Yugoslavia and now you want to deal with Serbia. You would pay and it is clear and it is simple as that.

Turks did everywhere the same.They used Albanians as crush force.When they wanted to suppress any revolution by balkan nations which suffered from the backward medieval brutal turkish rule,which stopped progress in Balkans for 400 years,the Albanians were there to help.Since they were considered to be the best,most obedient soldiers of ottoman empire,they were given huge regions in exchange,one of them Kosovo.They appeared in many regions of Balkan in this time,always as turkish force to help the turkish settlers and governors.
The region was serbian before being occupied by Ottomans.



Exactly.In Balkan wars 1912-1913 when Serbia,Greece and Bulgaria liberated the Balkans from Turks definetely.Balkan wars a very important event in balkan history which the West still hates.
Kosovo became de facto province of Serbia.The Albanians fought with turkish army against Serbia.They wanted to remain united with Turkey in Ottoman Empire and Albania was formed due to pressure from Italy in 1913 while there were greek and serbian troops.Even as late as 1919 the Albanians voted to become part of Turkey but USA and Italy prevented that.



Yes,and Albanians supported the axis with their hearts.They expelled hundreds of thousands of Serbs from Kosovo.They were never punished for that due to result of WW2 and Komintern decisions.
If there were not Hodza and albanian partizan movement,the Albanians in Kosovo would face the fate of ustashi who enjoyed a great time in Austria and Slovenia by serbian partizans.