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Polish - Vikings relations


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Lukasz
Edited by: Lukasz  Mar 3, 08, 04:40  #1

Yesterday I have discovered that we had very rich Viking-Polish Realtions.

I just wanted to put all articles in one place ...

http://czytelnia.onet.pl/0,1091032,do_czytania.html (in Polish)

http://www.jomsborg.pl/korzenie_en.html

there were good times

Olav Tryggvason's Saga says like that about Jomsvikings' campaign to Norway: "They had 20 ships from Skania [souther Sweden] and 40 ships from Vendland [Pomerania and Poland]. The king of Vendland was in this time Burisleif" (Boleslaw the Brave of Poland). Saga says Boleslaw was the father-in-law as well Sigvald, the jarl of Jomsvikings, as Sven Forkbeard - the king of Denmark and later conqueror of England - and the most famous of them, Olav Tryggvason, the king of Norway. According to Saga, Olav has spent 3 years in Poland (with his father-in-law, Boleslaw) and had there a lot of friends.



That's how the Jomsvikings legend grew up.
Some of the Danish islands were attacked by Slavic pirates so often, that they have been depopulated at the end; later they have been settled again by Slavs from Pomerania. Danish invasions (with distinctly repressive character), like this from year 1043, shows that Vends (Slavs) were not easy neighbours for the Vikings; at the same time, when Scandinavian Vikings pillaged the West Europe, they own territory was pillaged by Vends.
In the book The Viking Art Of War (Chapter 'The Vikings and their neighbours), Paddy Griffith writes:
"To the south-east of Denmark lay the Wends (Vends) or the Slav tribes, who were in many ways just as effective raiders and traders as the Vikings themselves".
"The Slavs were always under threat of attack from the Vikings as well as the Franks."
"They also gave as good as they got , in military terms, sacking Hedeby in 1000 and harrying Denmark, Gotland , Oland and southern Sweden to such an extent that the Western Baltic was sometimes called Mare Rugianorum after the Slavic pirates of Rugen.
The prevalence of treasure-hoarding in southern Sweden during the 1000s has led modern archeologists to believe that the threat was indeed a very serious one, and the Icelandic sagas themselves often seem to assume that "Vikings" in the purely piratical sense were almost as likely to be Wends (Vends) as Scandinavians."
According to our present knowlage, we can suppose that the team of pirates from Jomsborg was mixed, Slavic - Scandinavian, but after 1000 the Slavic element among the Jomsvikings was in majority.


Olaf Tryggvason's Saga says also, that Olav's father-in-law, Burisleif, has take a part in compaign of emperor Otton agains Danes and took part in battles near Danevirke. In this expedition was with him Olaf, his son-in-law. If it was a true, name "Burisleif " define rather Mieszko (Mieczyslaw) - father of Boleslaw, because he took part in this compaign with Otton. Because Jomsvikingasaga and Olav Tryggvason's Saga were written down in XII/XIII century, true and legend are mixed together. At this time, scandinavian vikings weren't so strong anymore, and the main centre of piracy at Baltic Sea were slavian sea-shores (including Wolin).
All of that, act on an imagination of Icelandic writers.



dna

when we look on R1A distribution ... it can be true that some Slavic tribes (Weneds Pomeranians, Kasuhubians) participated in some Viking "European trips" we all know how Vikings trips looked ... some famous nooble Scotish families are R1A ... So we have more "realtives than we thought ... ;-)

Haplogroup R1a - The R1a lineage is believed to have originated in the Eurasian Steppes north of the Black & Caspian Seas. This lineage is thought to descend from a population of the Kurgan culture, known for the domestication of the horse (circa 3000 B.C.E.). These people were also believed to be the first speakers of the Indo-European language group. This lineage is found in central & western Asia, India, and in Slavic populations of Europe.1 Haplogroup R1a also appears in Scotland, and is the haplogroup of the great Gaelic warrior, Somerled.


R1A


I have some interesting Videos about some "Slavic" - "Vikings" traditions or legends in Poland.



Viking Festival in Wolin (where Polson goes this year)





I am not expert in issue of Slavic - Viking contacts but when we look on information we have, it look much different than I thought it was.

btw it is possible that some of our ancestors joined Vikings in their trips ;) just look on our hooligans ;)


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porta
  Mar 3, 08, 07:23  #2

Of course they had good relations, vikings where trading with a lot of counties in Europa. And Poland was one of the best nations to trade with.
There must be a reason us norwegians are very popular in Poland :)


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Lukasz
  Mar 3, 08, 14:51  #3

this text is interesting:

http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Post/415852

The ties between western slavic tribes, especially Poles and the vikings, especially Danes are well known mostly because of the archeological researches and scandinavian sagas.


Some wariors from the area of modern Poland were even joining the vikings while many vikings served as mercenaries on the court of first polish rulers.
One of the most interesting matters of the Viking-Slavic history is Jomsborg (today Wolin island and city) in Poland.


A slavic settlement where the Danes build a fort became a home of famous Jomsvikings who were most feared wariors renowned for their honour and their courage. They were well known on the whole Baltic area and feared by all the vikings who were coming back home from long journays with their spoils. Altough some historians claim that they were slavic pirates, there are evidences in the scandinavian saga's that scandinavian element was strong if not dominant. Today most of historians agree that Jomsvikings were the mix of Scandinavians and Slavs who formed in Jomsborg famous viking society often called "Jomsviking League". In the 11th century majority of Jomsvikings were Vends/Vinds (scandinavian word for Slavs) - especially after many of Jomsvikings were sluaghtered in unsuccesfull invasion of Norway


The vikings were calling Poles (in the 10th century a strong strong slavic tribe which was conquering surrounding slavic tribes) "Vinds". Altough "Vinds"/"Vends" was the word which was describing all the western Slavs in the area of Baltic Sea.
The territory occupied by the western Slavs was a Vindland. Its ruler, the polish prince Mieszko I of the piast dynasty was known as Burizleif king of the Vindland.


Mieszko I ruler of Poland or in scandinavian version Burizleif king of the Vindland had 3 daughters, one of them married Sven Forkbeard king of Denmark, their famous son was Canute the Great. So, the mother of Canute the Great was the sister of the first polish king Boleslav the Brave, who even gave Canute a contingent of polish wariors for his invasion of England.


ohhh yes they were our ;-)
Thereafter for the chiefs of the Jomsborg vikings was filled and drunk the largest horn to be found, and of the strongest drink...(...)




and here is full saga text:

http://www.stavacademy.co.uk/mimir/trygvason.htm


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Crow
  Mar 3, 08, 15:05  #4

Lukasz wrote:
Lukasz

Thank you


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bratski2
  Mar 3, 08, 15:19  #5

They have a official website now that you can go to.
www.vikings.com

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Polson
  Mar 3, 08, 15:58  #6

Lukasz wrote:
Viking Festival in Wolin (where Polson goes this year)


Hehe ;) Yeah i may go there again this year (as well as Gliwice (Silesia) and Warsaw (my first time to the capital city))
I've been to the Viking Festival of Wolin at least 2-3 times, and always enjoyed it ;)
One of the video you gave Lukasz, shows a battle, and i swear they don't cheat, they really fight, btw i have vids of last year's festival...
And just so you know, there's a Viking metal band from the Faroese called Týr who turned one of their movie clips there, the song is Regin Smiður



Btw, i thought a few times about starting a Polish-Vikings relations thread...good you did Lukasz ;)


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Grzegorz_
  Mar 3, 08, 16:07  #7

Lukasz wrote:
Boleslav the Brave, who even gave Canute a contingent of polish wariors for his invasion of England.


:) :)


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Lukasz
Edited by: Lukasz  Mar 3, 08, 18:58  #8

Grzegorz_ wrote:
:) :)


I see G. you are interested.

So lets present English King with Polish origin who came to England as "Viking"

Canute was a son of the Danish king Sweyn Forkbeard and the Slavic princess, Saum-Aesa, (in accord with the Monk of St Omer's, Encomium Emmae and Thietmar of Merseburg's contemporary Chronicon), daughter to Mieszko I of Poland, and lent the Scandinavian name Gunnhilda by the Danes. Canute, was an heir to a line of Scandinavian rulers central to the unification of Denmark , with origins in the shadowy figure of Harthacnut, founder of the royal house, and the father to Gorm the Old, its official progenitor.


n summer 1015, Canute's fleet set sail for England with a Danish army of 10,000 in 200 longships. Among the allies of Denmark, Boleslaw the Brave, the Duke of Poland, and relative to the Danish royals, lent some token Slav troops, likely to have been a pledge made to Canute and Harald when they "went amongst the Wends" to fetch their mother


It was his empire

sses

and it is our Canute ;)

sas

If you want more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canute_the_Great


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Lukasz
Edited by: Lukasz  Mar 3, 08, 20:10  #9

Bratwurst Boy wrote:
Bratwurst Boy


He was half Pole half Danish and I don't have problem with it :) I see you have ...


According to your Germanic map ... just decide to which DNA group you (Germans) belong : R1A or R1B and later we can discusse LOL ...


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osiol
  Mar 4, 08, 15:18  #10

There have been so many changes in culture, as recorded in the archaeological record throughout European pre-history. Some of these changes will be about cultural borrowing and/or innovation, others will have been movement of population. Vikingness was an innovation in its time!

There have been numerous languages of different groups spoken across Europe since ancient times, some of them unrelated to Indo-European. Slavic is an IE language, meaning that if Slavic has had unbroken continuity since the palaeolothic, so has Germanic, Albanian, Greek, maybe Celtic, in part Italic...


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Ozi Dan
  Mar 6, 08, 03:08  #11

Fascinating Lukasz

Thanks a lot for the information - really enjoyed it


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JuliePotocka
  Mar 6, 08, 08:15  #12

More info, please. Loving it!

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