Polls for Poles in the UK

yes we could considering my father and other family members went over their to clean up the mess between the north and the south. I'm sorry for my ignorance as you call it, i don't just mean IRISH when i say 'those who don't consider themselves British' i mean ALL who say that. I don't really mind why they don't want to be British neither the reasons for it. If they don't want to then hay they don't have to be. So don't throw the 'ignorant' card at me because thats not the reason at all :). Maybe i should read a little more considering my families involvement in the conflict over in Ireland. I like the idea of a combined Ireland where the Irish are Irish. Thats a pipe dream i know.


lol

ok so please expalin what you mean, examples etc, i kind of get where your coming from but i would like to hear a few examples and reasonings please??

I didn't - but I'm not tired - migh be that "Polish Tea" I had earlier....

You have to be clear in what you say then.
Because if you don't say accurately what you mean how can others know what you mean to say. The reader can only read the written words, not unwritten thoughts behind them.

I will, tomorrow.

It's late on your side of the pond, and it's getting late here too, so for now have a good night all.

point taken


yeah i'm cool with that, its late here in England very much so:) i've got one eye on the baseball too

And i've had it too, i'm off to bed.
I'll be back, as the Cyborg said in the movie....

There's a lot of points in post 121, but it'll have to wait for another day.
Dobranoc

I can't believe you're still argueing about this.

It's already been established that Poland and not UK paid for this...

What is your problem with a Polish person, entering their local Polish club and casting their vote, all supervised by Polish people...no Anglo-Saxon was harmed in the process.

But then you say they should use a postal vote...I'm surprised you don't object to them using Her Majesty's Royal Mail boxes, the contents of which are emptied, transported and sorted by Her Majesty's Royal Mail employees...or perhaps you do object them using a Royal Mail postal service...Perhaps the Poles should supply their own post boxes..or better still ballot boxes.

so hang on,

will the apply to british citizens abroad so? Unless you are in britian you cannot vote in a british election unless you are in britian? overturning decades of international community policy and diplomacy? What about the armed services abroad? what about the GB citizens who happen to be working in Dubai or warsaw? By your merits, your saying you wont allow the british government to organise, pay and allow GB citizens overseas (ie in other countries) the ability to vote? Because that is in effect what you are saying about the Polish govt have done in the UK (and in many other places.

newsflash - this kind of thing was going on long before EU btw.
immigration...Tornado, the former british empire is responsible for a very large amount of forced migration you know. before the EU, how many indians, africans were 'taken' to GB and colonies? but its ok, because they had no vote at home so i guess you can disregard this paragraph.

the makeup of the GB population is more varied than white british male and has connections to many countries around the world.

these people are british and should they go abroad are entitled to vote in british elections abroad. the GB govt organises, pays and allows this by the grace of international law - the converse is. they allow other nations to organise, pay and allow other nations to do the same.

there is no cost to the uk tax payer
there is no laws imposed on the gb citizen as a result of such election (as there is none when a GB citizen does the very same abroad)
it is not an EU law, it is an international law, that PREDATES EU.

there is zero impact on the british economey of this act.
save the scene that you see people exercising democracy.

I truely feel from your original post, you objected largely to there being a GB cost to this, now you've conceeded there is not and merely have you 'back up' now

AS i dont think you would want the GB citizens right to vote abraod removed either.

Torn, unfortunately you don't let me change my mind about you. I don't like EU (maybe not totally but in current version this is s*hit no doubt) but this has nothing to do with EU or any political correctness, that's not any "make love not war" kind of stuff, that's simply one of the most basic things. If your government tried to interrupt in any way, you would make yourself an ass of the world and suffer huge loses both politically and economically.

Agreed.. Torny just doesn't like being wrong....it's just become argument for arguments sake :(

i know this my dear, i have already said that :)


lol i like the humour :) but really thats it, what you have just said Polish polish polish, where in the UK no UK interaction at all like a separate colony all together we need to live side by side or nothing at all. I don't think pockets of nationalities is a good idea thats all.


of course i don't mind, there paying for the postage stamp so they deserve to get the service like anybody else does. i just don't think any nationality should have an organised place for voting unless its UK referendums or voting time, thats about the size of it.


why the hell not, and you can vote, postal and through embassy's


thats why we have post, they can send a vote like they can send a letter to their families its not that difficult and my father has done it himself :)


NEWSFLASH: the EU has made this type of thing even worse and will no doubt encourage the right of any national to do most things in a foreign land.


stop trying to make out that i think every British person is 'WHITE' because i don't think that. Your just pointing at the 'race' issue again which as you very well know i have no problem with.


you see that term again, international law, it crops up everywhere. Good for them wow they can vote but i don't see why they can't just post their votes or do it through the British Embassy or what ever embassy of the country they are from.


EU or International law its all the same, its not British, on British land it should be BRITISH law only.


how about the fact i had more than one point and it wasn't just about the money. If you think i'm arguing or debating for no reason then hay thats your opinion.



Point taken mate, it was also well constructed. To be honest if we said 'no' you can't have public ballet boxes instead you have to vote by post or by going to the embassy i don't really think the rest of the world apart from Poland would care. I accept its good for Polish/British relations that we allow you to have these elections here, please for one second don't think i would apply this to the Polish only because i wouldn't it would be to all. It's just a simple principal that the only voting, polling and electing to be done in this country should be our own.


well i htink you'll find that when i'm wrong Daisy i publicly apoligise for being so. If i am ever out of line etc etc i am the first to write on the public boards either 'sorry' or 'i'm wrong' so don't question my integraty please, thank you

Are you kidding me ?

Polish Government employees arrange 20 polling stations around the country, as they see a need for this...... I don't know the details of all polling stations, but I do know my nearest one was held in club for Polish ex servicemen.... No doubt, the club was reimbursed financially for the use of the club and the club committee was happy with the arrangement ...who the hell is this 'We' who 'allowed' this to take place?... what kind of Stalinist regime would try to stop it..and how would they enforce such a ban?

Tornado...

... yawn.

sorry but i want britain out the eu........ps-i love poland



dont know where u got ur stats from if there was a vote tomorrow! then the uk would be out




very afraid!! the asian community have hid behind there own small communities since the day they arrived here and they remain distant toward the local population (well in scotland/glasgow anyway) ps- i love poland



identity!!!! this is the uk not poland, not pakistan, not india, and what makes you such an authority on international law, and even if you are right, why should someone from brussels or anywhere else be allowed to dictate law in the uk? Generations of people from this country worked hard to make it what it is, they paid (as we all do) national insurance on top of tax so we could have the best health service, so we could have the best in education etc etc etc, why now should this country be opened up to anyone from anywhere else on the planet to take advantage of the society that generations of UK nationals paid into and built? .......ps-i love poland

Probably. Because there are too many sheep and not enough thinkers.
The UK would be worse off for it too.


There isn't such thing as 'The Asian Community'.


Great. The country has been waiting for it for 60 years or so.


Ha ha ha!

PS. Poland's alright.

Christ... This has nothing to do with EU, this is about the most basic civilized standards of relations between countries. The polling stations where in Polish owned buildings or in places rented by our government, so how the hell British government could "not allow" that to happen ? Send police and arrest people organizing these elections ?

Back to your question that I promised to answer.
In points:

1939 - GB does not fulfill its military obligation towards Poland
1940 - Poles fight for Britain (the most effective pilots during the Battle of Britain, 5% of RAF, responsible for 12% of kills, fighting only since about 1/2 way through the Battle)
1944 - Little help (if any) during Warsaw Uprising. Polish squadrons not allowed to help either.
1945 - Poland is already given to Stalin while Poles still fight under UK's command (Poles were the 4th largest army in Europe during WW2)
1946 - Victory parade in London, Poles not allowed to participate
2007 - one tornado2007 claims that Poles should not be allowed to vote in their own elections if they reside in the UK, even if Poles pay every last penny of the cost.

The RAF provided the only continuous support during the uprising. I got that from Wikipedia, but I'd read stuff about it elsewhere.


Who cares what he thinks?

This is kinda true. And admittedly, there were technical issues RAF faced, and the danger to RAF pilots was undoubtedly high. But so was it in other areas.
Warsaw was simply not worth the Western effort anymore, as it had already been given away to the USSR.

Churchill faced a great dilemma. On the one hand he had Stalin who wanted Poland, and Roosevelt who didn't give squat about Poland, on the other, there were >100,000 Polish soldiers, still very much needed by the Western Allies. Sure UK had to sent some planes to Warsaw.

While the statistics there are impressive, something else even more vital is missed.

The Battle of Britain was a pivotal battle during WW2. The UK stood alone against Nazi Germany after the fall of France.

Hitler, to enact his plan of the invasion of the UK, needed total air superiority to make sure of the success of a sea and airborne invasion. The RAF had to be destroyed. This was going to plan, as at one point during the Battle of Britain, we had every available pilot in the air. The RAF was on its knees with losses that we couldn't replace quick enough. Then we threw the Polish pilots into the battle... who up until then hadn't been involved in the battle as fighter pilots...which gave the RAF more resources and turned the battle.

You could say, quite easily, that without these additional pilots, we'd have lost the Battle of Britain and the invasion of the UK would have then been a real possibility. So, while the figures alone are impressive, the more important aspect is that by using Polish pilots, we didn't get invaded... and letting Poles vote here, in a Polish election, paid for by Poles/EU is the very least we could do.

There endeth the lesson!!!

Churchill in particular wanted to send weapons/supplies to the Polish fighters.The soviet red army was just outside Warsaw and informed Britain and USA that any of their planes flying over would be shot down.

You mean hadn't been involved in BOB. They were veterans of the German invasion on Poland campaign.



You forgot about our intelligence and the home army in occupied Poland. But either way, Churchill did as much as he could during the Warsaw Rising. I believe that he really felt some kind of affection towards polish people, during the WWII as well as before it, during the Polish-Bolshevik war in 1919-1921. It's just that the circumstances were tough. That of course doesn't mean that he didn't play his part in deceiving the Polish Government in London during the WWII. Still he had responsibilities regarding his own people, and he did everything to fulfill them, which wasn’t always very moral regarding Poles, or other allies from the Central and Eastern Europe.



I see that nobody mentions that because of RAF, polish pilots were allowed to participate in this parade. It's just that those pilots said that either "all" Polish soldiers will participate or none. We know how that ended. But respect for RAF officials nonetheless.

Which intelligence? Not sure if you're Polish or British.


That was my point
Only after protests by some British pilots and the general population appeared in British newspapers
Don't you see that those Polish RAF pilots did the right thing by demanding that ALL Poles who fought should be honored?

no i'm not joking, who is going to kick up just because we don't let you vote using one specific methods when others are open to you


Britain :)


sorry donkey maybe its not a good idea to swallow those things that look like polo's there actually sleeping pills :)



mate i would love to be out, thanks for your support, i also like Poland :)


well thank you so much for your help 60 years ago. I think you'll find that the UK as part of the EU has already given Poland enough, none of the countries ow each other anything.

Who needs sleeping pills when you're off on one?
Polo's what?

Citizens of other EU countries can't vote in Westminster parliamentary elections, but they can register to vote at local government, devolved legislature (ie. Scottish parliament, Welsh assembly) and in European Parliament elections.

How do you like that, eh, Torny?

We'd be making a big mistake...
...not that it really affects us in any way whatsoever if they do or don't... God only knows why Tornado is against it...


don't you think it sounds a bit petty? Why close off that option? What harm does it bring you? Personally? As a 'nation' ?

you know donkeys, horses they love those mints with the hole :)


obviously a lot of people as they seem to reply or react in what way it dosen't concern me but hay there is a positive and negative to everything.


i think your trying to pull a fast one, lol


why??


you h ave to start somewhere, its like hte butterfly effect, first you let foreign nationals vote on their elections, then what next can happen on UK ground that has nothing at all to do with the UK??? it always starts of with small things.

Look it up. Ever filled out a voter registration card?

Polo's horses?


Too many reasons for you to fathom.


Then they let you vote on their soil in yours perhaps.