To all Brits! The immigration issue.

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Mar 24, 11, 19:14 #91

PennBoy:

later waves (most) do demeaning labor jobs that Brits largely don't want themselves, and are treated like sh1t.

That's not quite as true as the media and hard-done-by Poles would like you to think. In my work in Scotland, about 45-50% of the staff are Polish. Yes, a lot of them work cleaning out lodges and a few work in the customer service side. Now that sounds like it's a case of "get the Polish in to clean and do stuff we don't want to", but a lot of the Polish staff requested lodge work because it is much more hours than we get in the Hotel. Then they have brought over cousins and friends to work there too, many who can't speak English and so there isn't a chance for them to work on front line customer service.

In saying that, there are a number of Polish people who prefer to work in the Hotel, they learned English (in the Free English classes provided by work open to anyone) and were offered the jobs.

Now this is one example, but I met a large number of Polish people in Glasgow working in a load of different industries at church on Sundays and in the Polish supermarkets. Chatting with them (the immigrants you talk of doing the jobs we don't want to do), you wouldn't realise they had such a horrible life. A lot of them sat and complained about work the same as anyone complains about work (eg. "it's a shame it's sunday, really can't be bothered waking up for work tomorrow", etc.) but we were sitting in an up-market cafe and they were also talking about buying cars, laptops, iPads, etc. That, to me, doesn't sound like people doing demeaning work, getting treated like 2nd class citizens and hating their new country. Biggest complaint I heard from most people (during winter) was, "Why does your bloody country shut down when there is only half a centimetre of snow??".

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Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Mar 24, 11, 19:16 #92

PennBoy:

Same thing for Poles in the UK.

its not the same at all, Poles have flocked to the UK in search of money and a better life and most have found it. Back in the day circa 2004 a Pole working a menial job was earning around 6 times more than in Poland. The average weekly wage would have been about £200 times that x 6 which was the exchange rate then you have 1200 PLN per week so over 4800 PLN / month. Many of the Poles that stayed would be easily taking home £350 / week after a couple of years.

Ive known Poles that built houses for themselves in Poland from UK income, whats the same about that?

Cardno85:

but we were sitting in an up-market cafe and they were also talking about buying cars, laptops, iPads, etc.

Exactly during my time in Poland (5 years) ive noticed that around 1 in 20 UK registered cars are actually driven by Poles, you see more and more around public holidays, Christmas and Easter mainly, these cars have been getting better and better over the years.

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Mar 24, 11, 19:37 #93

PennBoy:

do demeaning labor jobs that Brits largely don't want themselves, and are treated like sh1t.

Not really true Penn Boy, theres all kinds of people doing all kinds of different jobs, running their own businesses, studying or whatever. Of course if you prefer, do deal in tired cliches and generalisationns about a country you've (probably) not visited, carry on , I daresay that's easier for you than fact and truth.

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Edited by: Havok Mar 24, 11, 19:40 #94

This may sound a little extreme but I believe I understand what Penn was trying to say earlier.

Great Brittan supposed to proceed in mind of making the EU work for Europeans so here are my questions for you - British citizens.

Are you uniting Europe, or are you allowing second and first generation British who are non-Europeans to invite the rest of their families and friends over? Obviously the horse’s back is too small for all of you to sit on it so how are you going to address it?

Who should be in front of the dole line, a first generation Pakistani with a British citizenship or European just living in The Kingdom of Great Britain?

Why everyone else gets this feeling that some Europeans, especially from Poland, are treaded like a third-class citizens in your Kingdom?

See, in the US there are 10 million of people calming to have Polish heritage. I don't hear anything about us being a problem here so... What’s so different about your country?

Obviously you really didn't think through the whole EU concept. I believe your plan to unite Europe may be in a serious jeopardy.

Edit:

I'm so glad i don't have to live there.

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Edited by: rozumiemnic Mar 24, 11, 19:46 #95

Havok:

Who should be in front of the dole line, a first generation Pakistani with a British citizenship or European just living in The Kingdom of Great Britain?

well...the British passport holder...but in general they work hard and have no need of dole...:)
Incidentally it's the United Kingdom OR Great Britain, as you like.
I am really glad you don't live here too..:)
Non of my European friends who live here feel like they are treated like "shit"..possibly that's just your perception.
In fact many of them have spoken of appreciating the different opportunities and lifestyle they can enjoy in GB.

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Edited by: Havok Mar 24, 11, 19:49 #96

rozumiemnic:

Incidentally it's the United Kingdom OR Great Britain, as you like.

i prefer Kingdom of Great Britain, because you guys are backwards and don't have a clue WTF you're doing back there.

rozumiemnic:

Non of my European friends who live here feel like they are treated like "shit"..possibly that's just your perception.
In fact many of them have spoken of appreciating the different opportunities and lifestyle they can enjoy in GB.

Sweet, so what is this thread about?

rozumiemnicThreads: 4 Posts: 1,021 Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀	Mar 24, 11, 19:52 #97
Havok: because you guys are backwards and don't have a clue WTF you're doing back there. Such ignorant comments merely serve to make you sound "backwards", I thought there was some kind of discussion going on,,,,not just chippy insults.

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Mar 24, 11, 19:52 #98

Havok:

Great Brittan supposed to proceed in mind of making the EU work for Europeans so here are my questions for you - British citizens.

Ask the politicians. One of the reasons Labour lost in the last election is because they wouldn't acknowledge the problem of mass immigration and if the LibCon coalition continue to ignore it, they'll go the same way. People have had enough of party politics here http://www.channel4.com/news/barnsley-by-election-labour-wins-lib-dems -sixth The fact that Labour won in Barnsley, doesn't mean they've gone up in popularity, Barnsley's the sort of place, if they stuck a Labour rosette on a dog's turd, Labour would still get most of the votes.

Havok:

See, in the US there are 10 million of people calming to have Polish heritage. I don't hear anything about us being a problem here so... What’s so different about your country?

Havok:

Obviously the horse’s back is too small for all of you to sit on

You've answered that one yourself, we're a small island and we're overcrowded

HavokThreads: 14 Posts: 1,508 Joined: Mar 12, 10 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Havok Mar 24, 11, 19:55 #99
rozumiemnic: kind of discussion going on Yes i apologize :). we're discussing why Polish are being treated like sh!t in GB. Please tell me why. Let's discuss. Daisy: You've answered that one yourself, we're a small island and we're overcrowded I see you follow me now, so how are you going to address it. Where should be the priority Pakistanis or Europeans? I know it’s a though one.

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Edited by: rozumiemnic Mar 24, 11, 19:57 #100

Havok:

Sweet, so what is this thread about?

derrr. read the title ..it's about the immigration issue in GB.
I dont know havok, actually we are all being treated like ****, long term residents and immigrants alike.
There is no priority in the dole queue, everyone gets it, pakistani or pole.
If Polish don't like it here, they go home. Theres God only knows how many flights and buses a day, simples.

HavokThreads: 14 Posts: 1,508 Joined: Mar 12, 10 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Havok Mar 24, 11, 20:03 #101
rozumiemnic: actually we are all being treated like ****, You guys gotta set your priorities straight, it's going to be better for all of ya. rozumiemnic: derrr You sound just like my retarded friend but I love her to death. She makes that sound a lot too rozumiemnic: read the title ..it's about the immigration issue in GB. Did you read what I wrote?

rozumiemnicThreads: 4 Posts: 1,021 Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀	Mar 24, 11, 20:06 #102
Havok Havok: rozumiemnic: derrr You sound just like my retarded friend but I love her to death. ahhhh thanks havok sweetie...xxxx

HavokThreads: 14 Posts: 1,508 Joined: Mar 12, 10 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Moderator Mar 24, 11, 20:08 #103
rozumiemnic: ahhhh thanks havok sweetie...xxxx yw :) the topic, please. the topic. thank you.

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Edited by: PennBoy Mar 24, 11, 20:13 #104

Wroclaw Boy:

Ive known Poles that built houses for themselves in Poland from UK income, whats the same about that?

I do also i have friends who work in the UK and Ireland, the ones who are planning to go back to Poland, who live with a bunch of people, save every pound and rarely go out have money put away. A few of them did already build a nice house for themselves back home. But I also have a friend in London she lives there permanently with her husband and daughter. Both work, live in a quite decent neighborhood, yet most of her earnings go just to pay for the rent.

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Edited by: rozumiemnic Mar 24, 11, 20:17 #105

PennBoy:

But I also have a friend in London she lives there permanently with her husband and daughter. Both work, live in a quite decent neighborhood, yet most of her earnings go just to pay for the rent.

Well that is just how living in London is.... for everyone .....if people don't like it or can't manage, they leave. That's their choice...to live somewhere or not. But there's a hell of alot of things they miss...

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Mar 24, 11, 20:26 #106

Havok:

I see you follow me now, so how are you going to address it

Daisy:

Ask the politicians. One of the reasons Labour lost in the last election is because they wouldn't acknowledge the problem of mass immigration and if the LibCon coalition continue to ignore it, they'll go the same way. People have had enough of party politics here

Havok:

Where should be the priority Pakistanis or Europeans? I know it’s a though one.

Why should one have priority over another? Too much immigration for a small island to cope with, is too much immigration, the country of origin doesn't make a lot of difference

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Mar 24, 11, 20:32 #107

PennBoy:

But I also have a friend in London she lives there permanently with her husband and daughter. Both work, live in a quite decent neighborhood, yet most of her earnings go just to pay for the rent.

Well London is the most expensive city in the UK to live in. I don't think that being Polish has any effect on how much of her earnings go on rent. I had friends working in London who went on 2 holidays abroad, plus trips home to Poland (infact his brother is still there doing that). They knew in order to live that lifestyle they needed to stay a wee bit out of the city and commute to work. It depends what you want, if you want to buy a house in Poland and then move back there to live and work then you need to live as cheap as possible to save as much. If you want a good lifestyle with all sorts of gadgets, a car and a nice social life then you need to be a bit out of the city to save on rent. But if you are raising a family there you will want a safe, comfortable neighbourhood. That's gonna cost you more. I wouldn't say that was unique to the UK.

At the end of the day, if Polish people are so very unhappy here then it's not hard for them to go home. Flights are cheap and regular. I think the fact that so many are not going home speaks volumes...no?

Havok:

i prefer Kingdom of Great Britain, because you guys are backwards and don't have a clue WTF you're doing back there.

So I prefer the Terrible Hopping State Of Poland...or not. Just because you like something doesn't mean you can call it what you want. The country is called The United Kingdoms of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Great Britain is the island, the Kindoms are Wales, England and Scotland, with Northern Ireland on the Irish Isle.

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Mar 24, 11, 20:53 #108

Wroclaw Boy:

Youre a Pole living in the UK right, perhaps you could tell me if youve experienced any negativity at all.

Yes, I am a Pole. No, we don't normally eat swans. Yes, we have bathrooms. No, we don't live in igloos. :)
I've experienced a lot of negativity. And a lot of positivity.

Wroclaw Boy:

thats the way the world is

Wroclaw Boy:

Are you married? if so to a Brit?

Yes. and no - to a Pole

Wroclaw Boy:

My main issue at the moment is that I am going home again soon to live and i would hate that my Polish wife be the victim of any racial abuse

Can't believe you said that :) You've been spreading around all the harmful stereotypes about Poles, but you wouldn't like your wife to be a victim of the stereotypes?

AdamKadmon:

but are well aware that all the evil is bound to take their sleep away, every single day, till the very last moment of their life

Somehow, I don't feel sorry for them

PennBoy:

Only the first wave of people with guaranteed job placement got the jobs they went to school for, later waves (most) do demeaning labor jobs that Brits largely don't want themselves, and are treated like sh1t.

Exactly. There are Polish/Lithuanian/Hungarian etc teachers and engineers doing unskilled jobs in the UK, so it's somewhat understandable that many of their British co-workers, who can barely read and write in their own language, feel threatened by them. But that shouldn't and cannot justify the whole propaganda of hate against Eastern Europeans

HavokThreads: 14 Posts: 1,508 Joined: Mar 12, 10 MEMBER ♂	Mar 24, 11, 20:54 #109
Daisy: Why should one have priority over another? Too much immigration for a small island to cope with, is too much immigration, the country of origin doesn't make a lot of difference Already than, take care, just keep on paying dole to everyone and shut up about Polish.

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Mar 24, 11, 20:58 #110

Havok:

Already than, take care, just keep on paying dole to everyone and shut up about Polish.

I never mentioned Polish, I said that if immigration is too much and out of control, it makes no difference where those people come from, too many people fro the country to cope with is too many, end of. Immigration needs controlling, those controls should be put on all immigrants, regardless of their country of origin

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Edited by: Havok Mar 24, 11, 20:59 #111

Cardno85:

So I prefer the Terrible Hopping State Of Poland...or not. Just because you like something doesn't mean you can call it what you want. The country is called The United Kingdoms of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Great Britain is the island, the Kindoms are Wales, England and Scotland, with Northern Ireland on the Irish Isle.

Ok whatever dude, God save the queen and all your focking kindoms

Edit, oh i don't care what you call Poland

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Mar 24, 11, 21:00 #112

Havok:

Already than, take care, just keep on paying dole to everyone and shut up about Polish.

I never mentioned Polish, I said that if immigration is too much and out of control, it makes no difference where those people come from, too many people fro the country to cope with is too many, end of. Immigration needs controlling, those controls should be put on all immigrants, regardless of their country of origin

HavokThreads: 14 Posts: 1,508 Joined: Mar 12, 10 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Havok Mar 24, 11, 21:03 #113
Daisy: no difference where those people come from It does if you're trying to unite Europe.... or are on the quest to "unite" whole world again? edit: You can't fit everyone on your island, silly

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Mar 24, 11, 21:03 #114

chichimera:

There are Polish/Lithuanian/Hungarian etc teachers and engineers doing unskilled jobs in the UK

This is true, but often not because they had no other option. My friend Paweł worked in a chip shop (with me) in Scotland even though he was a junior accountant in Poland. I asked him why he didn't want to do the same here and it was simple: a)he was earning more than at home and enough to save up to open his own restaurant which was what he wanted to do all along and b)in order to get a job here he would need to pay to get equivalent british qualifications, and he didn't want to.

I had another friend who decided to get those equvalents in Scottish law and she is now one of the top lawyers for Polish people in Scotland.

Closer to home, my mum was a midwife for her whole nursing career in Scotland, Dubai and Singapore, but due to working abroad for more than 5 years she needed to re-qualify. She didn't have the time to do that so worked as a Staff Nurse. It's not just Poles who have to take jobs that they are over-qualified for.

DaisyThreads: 16 Posts: 2,172 Joined: Apr 28, 07 ♀	Mar 24, 11, 21:14 #115
Havok: It does if you're trying to unite Europe Who's doing that? Havok: You can't fit everyone on your island, silly You can't fit the whole of Europe on it either, silly.

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Mar 24, 11, 21:18 #116

chichimera:

There are Polish/Lithuanian/Hungarian etc teachers and engineers doing unskilled jobs in the UK,

There's nothing connected to citizenship or nationality that would stop them from getting the same jobs in the UK - if the qualifications and skills are there it's a level playing field. The fact that those sort of jobs are a little harder to get is nobody's fault. After all - one can't expect British people to resign from their jobs just because the EU has enlarged.

chichimera:

the whole propaganda of hate against Eastern Europeans

There isn't any. Show me another country who has responded so well to the influx of over a million people from the same place during a short period. In Poland there would be riots.

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Mar 24, 11, 21:30 #117

Cardno85:

but often not because they had no other option

Cardno85:

It's not just Poles who have to take jobs that they are over-qualified for.

100% right. This is what I've been trying to point out - that we all have a story, everyone is different and trying to oversimplify the issue of immigration by stating: 'The Polish theives have abandoned their igloos and come over here to steal the jobs and destroy Britain' is harmful and untrue

HavokThreads: 14 Posts: 1,508 Joined: Mar 12, 10 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: Havok Mar 24, 11, 21:38 #118
Daisy: Who's doing that? Pardon my ignorance but GB supposed to be one of the EU leaders last time I’ve checked. Unless recently, you guys got demoted to a third world country, you know , kinda like, hmm Pakistan. Daisy: You can't fit the whole of Europe on it either, silly. Let the British stay, dump non-Europeans overboard and i'm sure you'll find some room.

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Mar 24, 11, 21:43 #119

chichimera:

'The Polish theives have abandoned their igloos and come over here to steal the jobs and destroy Britain' is harmful and untrue

Do you read the Daily Mail? I don't know anyone who thinks this way. What's your story? Were you a victim of xenophobia while in the UK? I am not living in a happy little dream world where there is no complaints about Polish people. But the people who go on about "they stole our jobs" and all that are a minority who would think like that wether there was a huge influx of Polish people or not.

You've got to keep in mind also, I am working in a place where the majority of our staff are Polish. None of them get any abuse even in this little village...because the locals realise there isn't enough people to fill the jobs they need to keep the company in business and, in turn, keep them in work. It's hard to find other people because a lot of Scottish people aren't willing to travel into rural Argyll (which is a shame, it's a beautiful area).

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Edited by: Daisy Mar 24, 11, 21:43 #120

Havok:

Pardon my ignorance but GB supposed to be one of the EU leaders last time I’ve checked.

you're joking, not funny, but a joke. why do you think the politicians won't allow us to have a referendum? Because they know they would get the result they don't want. A lot of Politicians want to make names for themselves in the EU, plus lots of money, they all want to jump on the Euro gravy train, that's when they haven't got their heads up America's arse. Legends in their own lunchtimes the bloody lot of them

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