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BBC defend decision to invite the BNP to appear on tonight's "Question Time"

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Oct 23, 09, 01:20 #61

Does Poland have anything to worry about as far as the BNP are concerned?

Lets be honest, no of course not, the BNP are never going to get into a position of power to be able to change anything.

Were the BBC right in inviting the BNP onto Questiontime?

Yes of course they were, what ever you say about the BNP, they are a certified political party and therefore should be allowed their say.

Was Nick Griffin bullied/picked on/ganged up on??

Again, yes he was, how was the guy supposed to answer any questions when 15 came from fifteen different directions, that does not even include the amount of times he was stopped from finishing a sentence.

Did Nick Griffin answer the questions he was allowed to??

Yes/No, there were questions that he was able to answer (there were even some things said i agree with, there were also a lot of things he said i disagreed with) and there were also questions he clearly had difficulty in answering.

Did the rest of the panel answer answer the questions asked of them?

Well take Jack Straw for example, he managed to dodge answering at least 3 questions posed to him. The only person who really answered any questions was the Liberal Democrat representative.

I have a lot to say about Immigration, Religion, etc etc but won't go into what i agree with and disagree with as i don't think this is the right thread to do so. All i will say is that i am not a supporter of the BNP, i will not be voting for them and never will do, however i do agree with some of the points Nick Griffin makes.

Thanks

T

RevokeLisbon	Oct 23, 09, 01:29 #62
jonni: Rather jumped on by most scientists Not anymore. jonni: So you're in fact Chinese by origin? Nope, archaeologists will find the truth eventually. Remember, scientists once believed the world was flat.

♂

Edited by: jonni Oct 23, 09, 01:37 #63

RevokeLisbon:

jonni:
Rather jumped on by most scientists
Not anymore.

Actually, the Africa theory is still the accepted view. The multi origin theory has been around a long time but is not widely accepted. The australopithecus remains in China date from 35-45,000 years BP; mitochondrial DNA and fossil evidence indicates that modern humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago.

So your origins are like mine, in Africa. Unless you know differently.

RevokeLisbon:

Nope, archaeologists will find the truth eventually. Remember, scientists once believed the world was flat.

What truth is that?

RevokeLisbon	Oct 23, 09, 01:41 #64
jonni: What truth is that? That we did not originate in Africa. Many, many, many people do not have African DNA. If we all descended from africa, why does it not show in our DNA?

♂

Oct 23, 09, 01:42 #65

tornado2007:

Does Poland have anything to worry about as far as the BNP are concerned?

Lets be honest, no of course not, the BNP are never going to get into a position of power to be able to change anything.

Some are saying that putting the BNP on QT brings them more into the mainstream. The programme I saw in trendy Brighton & Hove might be seen in a different way by those living in the sink estates up north.

tornado2007:

Was Nick Griffin bullied/picked on/ganged up on??

Again, yes he was, how was the guy supposed to answer any questions when 15 came from fifteen different directions, that does not even include the amount of times he was stopped from finishing a sentence.

That was always going to be the way though.

tornado2007:

Did the rest of the panel answer answer the questions asked of them?

Well take Jack Straw for example, he managed to dodge answering at least 3 questions posed to him. The only person who really answered any questions was the Liberal Democrat representative.

Have you ever seen QT before ? The panel always answer the question they hear in their head rather than the one actually asked.

tornado2007:

All i will say is that i am not a supporter of the BNP, i will not be voting for them and never will do, however i do agree with some of the points Nick Griffin makes.

I won't vote for them either, but you're right they raise issues that need to be talked about. However I would rather people like Sayeeda Warsi and that smartly dressed black guy in the audience discussed things like immigration (as they tried to do during a lull in the shouting) rather than anyone like Nick Griffin.

♂

Edited by: jonni Oct 23, 09, 01:42 #66

RevokeLisbon

It does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_sapiens

The China thing that you mention, the Multiregional theory, involves Homo Erectus (your ancestor and mine) leaving Africa, and evolving into Homo Sapiens in either three or four regions. There's no hard evidence though, and in any case it still depends on an African origin (for which there is very hard evidence).

So your ancestors, cousin, are African.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Oct 23, 09, 01:48 #67
I wonder how Thatcher would have fared in that set up. Only when you have been in highly homogeneous countries like Poland and Japan do you see how multicultural Britain is. Thatcher had the gall to talk about people of superb British stock but what does that mean? Britain has staked out a multicultural identity but cannot really claim to have the clarity of identity that Poland and Japan have.

♂

Edited by: tornado2007 Oct 23, 09, 01:52 #68

Mister H:

Some are saying that putting the BNP on QT brings them more into the mainstream.

I totally agree with you on that point, it does bring them into the mainstream, however it is down to the British public to decide if he is worth a place in parliament.

Mister H:

The programme I saw in trendy Brighton & Hove might be seen in a different way by those living in the sink estates up north.

I think this is a common mistake people make, that all the votes the BNP collect are from those who are uneducated or come from a poor background, i think, if i remember rightly a huge list of names released on the internet of some supporters of the BNP. These people were in positions of power and were far from poor and uneducated.

Mister H:

That was always going to be the way though

I don't think it helped the cause of the other parties, they had an oppertunity to try and show him up, gain support for themselves but instead they continually picked on him, butted in when he was speaking, avoided the questions he asked, 5 v 1 schoolboy bully tactics etc etc.........

If you ask me that does not show or represent the intelligence, integrity and manner required to sit in parliament or in Jack Straws case, run the country.

Mister H:

Have you ever seen QT before ? The panel always answer the question they hear in their head rather than the one actually asked.

Yes i have seen Questiontime before, however your point rather reminds me of politicians on the whole, they always avoid answering the questions :) It just struck me as hypocritical that they kept on about him not answering questions when they themselves didn't answer any either :)

Mister H:

smartly dressed black guy

totally agree with you, that is the kind of guy we need to hear from when discussing immigration, as for Sayeeda Warsi...... She hammers Griffin for his views on homosexuals when in her faith/religion being homosexual can lead to the sentence of hanging!!!!! another hypocrite if you ask me.

Seanus:

I wonder how Thatcher would have fared in that set up. Only when you have been in highly homogeneous countries like Poland and Japan do you see how multicultural Britain is. Thatcher had the gall to talk about people of superb British stock but what does that mean? Britain has staked out a multicultural identity but cannot really claim to have the clarity of identity that Poland and Japan have.

Why does it matter about how multicultural we are?? The issues we should be discussing are those of immigration not of race?? am i wrong?? all they did on the QT was go on and on about race to Griffin instead of answering his questions about immigration.

Having a stable/secure immigration policy does not mean throwing everybody with a different coloured skin, culture etc etc its about BRITAIN as a country.

RevokeLisbon	Oct 23, 09, 01:54 #69
jonni: It does. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_sapiens Wikipedia. Thats me convinced.

♂

Edited by: Seanus Oct 23, 09, 01:56 #70

And therein lies the danger of badges and labels, torny. They can't remove themselves from double standards. It's sad when people don't attempt to reconcile the central tenets of their religion with other issues when it requires it. The best policy is to keep religion out of it and then you lower the risk of tripping yourself up. You can't have you cake and eat it (too).

Torny, my point was that Thatcher didn't need to harp on about the gloriousness of the Brits when she only focussed in on a minor part of British culture and society. I wasn't suggesting anything of my own, just saying that I see Britain differently for having been away for some time and that Thatcher was overly selective. I am also not a fan of bringing up race or colour in my own analyses of things. It doesn't serve a constructive purpose.

RevokeLisbon	Oct 23, 09, 01:57 #71
Ethnics are not British.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Oct 23, 09, 01:58 #72
RevokeLisbon: Wikipedia. Thats me convinced. Read up on the subject - there are plenty of good sources. I chose Wikipedia because it's simple enough for you to understand.

♂

Oct 23, 09, 01:59 #73

Seanus:

I actually think religion should be removed from everyday life, therefore a lot of things become a lot less educated, maybe people would judge people on who they are rather than what they represent/believe.

There may be wars in the world even without religion but i promise you there would be a lot less conflict overall!!! Whether that is domestic, national or international.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Edited by: Seanus Oct 23, 09, 02:02 #74
I agree that religion should be played down to a minimum. When you listen to most religious debates, out come the stereotypes and bias/prejudice. It's far more sensible to let people discover their own spirituality which doesn't bring those attendant evils with it. I've edited above.

♂

Edited by: Mister H Oct 23, 09, 02:03 #75

tornado2007:

I totally agree with you on that point, it does bring them into the mainstream, however it is down to the British public to decide if he is worth a place in parliament.

Well let's hope not. UKIP definitely though.

tornado2007:

That maybe the case, but they seem concentrate their efforts in the poorer areas where it's all flags of the cross of St George flapping out of windows next to huge Sky dishes. Sorry for the stereotype.

tornado2007:

The rest of the panel were rather weak I thought, especially Jack Straw. As for the butting in, I guess you have to forgive them for that. It must have got very heated as it isn't often even they as politicians would have had the chance to question Griffin face to face.

tornado2007:

They should have been much better prepared. Immigration was bound to come up and be one of the main subjects. Jack Straw has never struck me as someone that holds up well under such situations. I don't know how come he has lasted so long in politics.

tornado2007:

She did go rather quiet when it came to civil partnerships and so on, but she was prepared to discuss immigration (in my experience most 2nd/3rd generation immigrants talk about it in a much more open and honest way) so full marks to her for trying.

RevokeLisbon:

Ethnics are not British

They are if they were born here.

♂

Oct 23, 09, 02:05 #76

Seanus:

I agree that religion should be played down to a minimum. When you listen to most religious debates, out come the stereotypes and bias/prejudice. It's far more sensible to let people discover their own spirituality which doesn't bring those attendant evils with it.

I just simply believe that people would show their true/real personalities without a religion in their lives, instead of following, they would be leading :) leading themselves

♂

Edited by: jonni Oct 23, 09, 02:05 #77

RevokeLisbon:

Show me these other sources

Here's a few:

Hua Liu, et al. A Geographically Explicit Genetic Model of Worldwide Human-Settlement History. The American Journal of Human Genetics, volume 79 (2006), pages 230–237, quote: Currently available genetic and archaeological evidence is generally interpreted as supportive of a recent single origin of modern humans in East Africa. However, this is where the near consensus on human settlement history ends, and considerable uncertainty clouds any more detailed aspect of human colonization history.

Donald Johanson, "Origins of Modern Humans: Multiregional or Out of Africa?", Action Bioscience.org

Joseph D'Agnese, "Not Out of Africa, Alan Thorne's challenging ideas about human evolution", Discover, Aug 2002

Mitochondrial DNA sequences in ancient Australians: Implications for modern human origins. PNAS 10/30/2000: Gregory J. Adcock, Elizabeth S. Dennis, Simon Easteal, Gavin A. Huttley, Lars S. Jermiin, W. James Peacock, Alan Thorne; url:http://www.pnas.org/content/98/2/537.full.pdf
^
Cooper, A., Rambaut, A., Macaulay, V., Willerslev, E., Hansen, A. & Stringer, C. 2001. Human origins and ancient human DNA. Science 292: 1655-1656

What that's got to do with Griffin's election prospects I don't know. I do know however that you and I are distantly related (heck, you can choose your friends but not your relatives), and we both have our origins in Africa

Off to bed, gotta pick some corn tomorrow.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Oct 23, 09, 02:07 #78
RevokeLisbon: Show me these other sources, n!gger. Africa gave nothing to world other than aids, ebola, spearchucking, tree swinging, mud hut dwelling, cannibalism, ethnic cleansing, goat fcuking, rape of kids for cures of aids and panhandling. Doesn't take long does it...

RevokeLisbon	Oct 23, 09, 02:10 #79
jonni: Doesn't take long does it... Heres a great article for you to ponder on, blud. http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/africa-is-giv ing-nothing-to-anyone--apart-from-aids-1430428.html

♂

Edited by: tornado2007 Oct 23, 09, 02:18 #80

Mister H:

UKIP definitely though.

yep i'm with you there

Mister H:

Its ok, i fly my England flag (which i do not see a problem with) when the world cup is on etc etc, i also have sky television, i'm hoping thats alright too??? lol

On a serious note though, your correct about there areas of concentration, so why all these other supports who do not originate from these estates etc etc?? that means they did not take much convincing, if any to sympathise with the BNP view??

Mister H:

Jack Straw

You know Jack Straw had my respect a few years ago, he was the only one in a struggling government who had the balls to stand up and be counted, as well as to take responsibility for things going wrong/the mistakes that were made. What i saw tonight made him a shadow of the man i believed him to be.

Mister H:

. As for the butting in, I guess you have to forgive them for that. It must have got very heated as it isn't often even they as politicians would have had the chance to question Griffin face to face.

point taken, however are they not supposed to be profiessionals?? are they not supposed to be the cream of the crop, the best Britain has to offer, after all these people are standing to run the country?? Personally i expect more from such candidates than what i got tonight!!!

Mister H:

Jack Straw has never struck me as someone that holds up well under such situations

Actually i don't know about that, wasn't it Jack Straw who said he agreed that in certain situations Muslim women should be made to remove their Burka's if it made somebody feel uncomfortable when they were speaking/holding a conversation with them??

Mister H:

I don't know how come he has lasted so long in politics

Up until tonight i would have had it out with you about Jack Straw but as i said before on tonights showing............. maybe his age is showing :)

Mister H:

They should have been much better prepared. Immigration was bound to come up and be one of the main subjects.

yeah they should have come more prepared than to contiually attack somebody on one subject 'race' and use that as an excuse to dodge questions, makes them as bad if not worse than Griffin if you ask me, what is it they say about lowering your level............

Mister H:

She did go rather quiet when it came to civil partnerships and so on

exactly what i thought :)

Mister H:

but she was prepared to discuss immigration (in my experience most 2nd/3rd generation immigrants talk about it in a much more open and honest way) so full marks to her for trying.

I will give her that, she did, so fair play, politics is like football 'its a game of opinions' :)

Seanus:

I agree. Religion is a form of conditioning and, in certain cases, outright indoctrination. I know I am not popular with Catholics for saying this but inbuilt confession can lead to a situation where you sin too easily, knowing that you can receive penance. Life is so complicated that we need to be aware of all the relevant factors before we can grant repentance.

i've talked a lot about religion on this forum, i think most regulars know about my views, so no real need to repeat them again and again. I personally see there being a more 'multicultural world' if religion was removed from society. I know religion is viewed as part of culture and in some countries is the heart beat of it, however if you take it away religion will soon be replaced by more flexible representations of culture.

♂

Edited by: jonni Oct 23, 09, 02:23 #81

RevokeLisbon:

Tell me how he is wrong, if you can, negro.

Well, Africa gave us the origins of humanity. The slave trade brought great wealth to Europe and the US, the gold and diamonds (not to mention copper, asbestos. and silver) enriched us through the back-breaking and dangerous work of Africans. Oh, and during times of famine in parts of Africa, the continent as a whole was a net exporter of food.

Definitely time for bed.

♂

Oct 23, 09, 02:26 #82

RevokeLisbon:

Tell me how he is wrong, if you can, negro

Can you drop the use of such language please ? You can tell that the moderators have hit the hay.

tornado2007:

Its ok, i fly my England flag (which i do not see a problem with) when the world cup is on etc etc, i also have sky television, i'm hoping thats alright too??? lol

A flag is fine. It's when people have everything down to their deckchairs and mini-fridges in the same colours that I tend to get worried ;-)

tornado2007:

On a serious note though, your correct about there areas of concentration, so why all these other supports who do not originate from these estates etc etc?? that means they did not take much convincing, if any to sympathise with the BNP view??

I am a bit stumped with that one, but will think about it together with your other comments and get back to you tomorrow.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Oct 23, 09, 02:28 #83
Mister H: Can you drop the use of such language please ? You can tell that the moderators have hit the hay. Now I see why he's doing it. Let's hope it'll be gone in the morning, like a bad dream.

RevokeLisbon

Edited by: RevokeLisbon Oct 23, 09, 02:28 #84

jonni:

Well, Africa gave us the origins of humanity.

They didnt even invent the wheel or fire.

jonni:

The slave trade brought great wealth to Europe, the gold and diamonds (not to mention copper, asbestos. and silver) enriched us through the back-breaking and dangerous work of Africans.

My ancestors were slaves. They had white skin.

jonni:

Oh, and during times of famine in parts of Africa, the continent as a whole was a net exporter of food.

My ancestors ate grass whilst food was sent to England by point of a gun. Millions of my people died of state implemented starvation. Whatss your point? Should I be given freebies?

We can send Africa another trillion. It will not help. Fair trade ftw.

♂

Oct 23, 09, 02:31 #85

Mister H:

A flag is fine. It's when people have everything down to their deckchairs and mini-fridges in the same colours that I tend to get worried ;-)

lol, no need to worry about that, just the flag and maybe the shirt if England are playing. After all i do not see the problem in flying your flags country, to some it may represent right wing views, to me it represents England and thats all.

Mister H:

I am a bit stumped with that one, but will think about it together with your other comments and get back to you tomorrow.

ok no problem, speak agian tommorow, thanks for the discussion.

RevokeLisbon
I don't understand what you are trying to proove here?? are you scared of where you and the rest of humanity originates?? if so why??

You know i'm with you when it comes to having a solid/secure immigration policy but they way you try and put your point accross does not help your case.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Edited by: jonni Oct 23, 09, 02:32 #86
RevokeLisbon: They didnt even invent the wheel or fire. So who 'invented' fire? And how can you be so sure of the colour of your ancestors' skin - maybe you have a 90,000 year old polaroid? Definitely off to bed now. Too big a day tomorrow to spend the night in front of a computer arguing with an eejit.

RevokeLisbon

Edited by: RevokeLisbon Oct 23, 09, 02:36 #87

tornado2007:

don't understand what you are trying to proove here?? are you scared of where you and the rest of humanity originates?? if so why??

You know i'm with you when it comes to having a solid/secure immigration policy but they way you try and put your point accross does not help your case.

No, I do not believe we originated in Africa. I believe it is afro propaganda. My main point is this, most races and nations have been treated terribly. But the Africans are the ones who never shut up about it.

jonni:

So who 'invented' fire?

Not Africans.

jonni:

And how can you be so sure of the colour of your ancestors' skin - maybe you have a 90,000 year old polaroid?

From DNA tests, blud. As I said, send me your email address in PM and I will forward on my test results. Set up an email if you do not want me to know who you are.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Edited by: jonni Oct 23, 09, 02:40 #88
RevokeLisbon: From DNA tests, DNA tests don't show our oldest ancestors. Nor do we know their skin colour. We only have partial skeletons. All found in Africa. And the first archaeological traces of food cooked on a fire are in Africa. Nobody knows where humans first started to control it. Out of interest, why did you have a DNA test done? I've thought about it myself.

RevokeLisbon

Oct 23, 09, 02:44 #89

jonni:

Out of interest, why did you have a DNA test done? I've thought about it myself.

Curiosity as an Irish nationalist. I was more than happy with the results. I am of Celt, Basque, and a lil bit of Norman origin. The rest is miniscule. Nice to know you are indigenous to your native land.

If you are interested in doing a DNA test, I would advise you to do your family tree first. Makes things a lot clearer.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,189 Joined: Nov 27, 07 ♂	Oct 23, 09, 02:50 #90
That's what I'm thinking of doing. I suspect most of my recent ancestors are Scottish, Irish and Welsh, but part of my family have lived by Hadrian's Wall for centuries, so something interesting may come up. But the clusters of DNA that show up in tests only go back a couple of thousand years at best. Definitely to bed now.

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