BBC defend decision to invite the BNP to appear on tonight's "Question Time"

RevokeLisbon	Oct 23, 09, 02:54 #91
jonni: But the clusters of DNA that show up in tests only go back a couple of thousand years at best. Err err. Good luck anyway.

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,354 Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂	Oct 23, 09, 03:04 #92
Mister H: BNP What does it stand for? Cause if I am guessing correct thoose guys should really read about what words mean...

♂

Oct 23, 09, 03:31 #93

Mister H:

I don't think he would have won many over either. He looked very shifty and uncomfortable and couldn't seem to stop his hands from shaking - he was either nervous or badly needed a drink !

To be fair to him i think he did a pretty good job considering there must have been about 100 hostile people in the room. I wonder how well you would handle such pressure.

tornado2007:

Does Poland have anything to worry about as far as the BNP are concerned?

Lets be honest, no of course not, the BNP are never going to get into a position of power to be able to change anything.

I would say that poland as a whole has nothing to fear from the BNP but i would say polish people should be, at the end of the day even if they don't get into power they are just as much a pressure group towards the other parties which can bring about change.

jonni:

So your origins are like mine, in Africa. Unless you know differently.

What a really dim statement, all cats are related but you see different breeds and left alone they will avoid mixing. We left where ever we came from and became a different race of humans which is just as well documented.

RevokeLisbon:

Welfare day tomorrow, coon?

haha pack it in you b*stard i've got a misses and kids upstairs trying to sleep :D

As for question time i think it was crap, nick never got much of a chance to answer the questions that were put to him and yes he may have tried to avoid a few but all politicians do this and thats a fact. To be honest i wouldn't feel guilty if i voted for the BNP, i agree with alot that they say but at the same time i disagree with alot but thats politics and you should always vote for the party that ticks the most boxes.

♂

Edited by: Mister H Oct 23, 09, 11:16 #94

tornado2007:

lol, no need to worry about that, just the flag and maybe the shirt if England are playing. After all i do not see the problem in flying your flags country, to some it may represent right wing views, to me it represents England and thats all.

I don't see the problem either and I'm very pleased that the Union Jack is now seen flying outside buildings and in TV adverts adverts and so on. For years, such things have been seen as a symbol of the BNP and we need to take them back !

You also asked about why educated people vote BNP and that is a tough one.

I think it has to come down to upbringing and education and having a very narrow circle of friends. If someone has grown up in a very well-off family and the only black person they knew was the African woman who cleaned the kitchen floor then I think that may end up with a pretty strange view of life.

Mr Grunwald:

What does it stand for?
Cause if I am guessing correct thoose guys should really read about what words mean...

BNP stands for British National Party, not sure what point you are trying to make.

BritishEmpire:

To be fair to him i think he did a pretty good job considering there must have been about 100 hostile people in the room. I wonder how well you would handle such pressure.

Griffin is a leader of a party and has been been the BNP leader for years, so should be able to stand up to such pressure.

He must have been prepared for the sorts of questions that would have come up, he's had weeks to get ready. He's just never had to face those people that are always in his firing line.

It just shows that being force to face his critics without his pet thugs at his side, he's nothing. He was a rabbit caught in headlights.

♂

Oct 23, 09, 12:29 #95

I'm not a nazi or a racist but I do agree with quite a few of Nick Griffins points of view. Britain is too overcrowded and something does need to be done but the main thing the BNP seem to believe in is keeping British culture and values and also preserving Britain as a predominantly Christian country.

It seems that we are far to lenient to people from other cultures in that we have lost the freedom of speech due to political correctness.

Theres nothing wrong with people coming to the UK if they have something to contribute, Case in point is the sheer number of Poles who go to the UK to work as opposed to scrounge off our failing health and benefits system or try to stop us celebrating St georges day or Christmas etc.

I'm sure if a similar sort of thing happened in any other european country there would have been massive backlash.

♂

Edited by: Mister H Oct 23, 09, 12:44 #96

dnz:

#141
I'm not a nazi or a racist but I do agree with quite a few of Nick Griffins points of view. Britain is too overcrowded and something does need to be done but the main thing the BNP seem to believe in is keeping British culture and values and also preserving Britain as a predominantly Christian country

I agree with you, but while the BNP maybe correct in pointing out some of what is wrong, they are not the answer.

dnz:

It seems that we are far to lenient to people from other cultures in that we have lost the freedom of speech due to political correctness.

Theres nothing wrong with people coming to the UK if they have something to contribute, Case in point is the sheer number of Poles who go to the UK to work as opposed to scrounge off our failing health and benefits system or try to stop us celebrating St georges day or Christmas etc.

Immigration was discussed last night to a certain degree and it wasn't just white people saying that there should be a cap on numbers or that there should be better control.

I agree that there is too much political correctness, but often it is trendy white people that come up with all the nonsense. Saying that people can't celebrate this or that is a nonsense with no basis.

markcooperThreads: 6 Posts: 113 Joined: Apr 27, 09 ♂	Oct 23, 09, 13:02 #97
Mister H: trendy white people that come up with all the nonsense. Saying that people can't celebrate this or that is a nonsense with no basis Trendy white people................yes like trendy white people doing the demonstrating outside BBC Studio's last night. They can all wake up this morning in leafy suburbia and give themselves a jolly good pat.

OsiedleRuda

Oct 23, 09, 13:12 #98

Mister H:

Griffin is a leader of a party and has been been the BNP leader for years, so should be able to stand up to such pressure.

True. However, Jack Straw has been a politician for much longer, there was virtually no pressure on him, and I don't think he fared any better than Nick Griffin to be honest!

Anyway, my verdict.

I can't see the BNP getting many more votes because of NG's appearance on this show (but their existing support will no doubt be celebrating) but I think that this is yet another nail in New Labour's coffin. It's rather ironic, but it took a black man to point out that Labour simply isn't listening on immigration, yet Straw still tried to evade the issue, and couldn't even be honest when challenged! I think that Griffin made an excellent point about how no-one would dare go to another country and tell their native people that they aren't indigenous, but I don't think he argued his case very well otherwise.

The hypocrisy of the audience was also evident - Baroness Warsi and Nick Griffin expressed almost identical opinions on homosexuality, but the silence in response to the former's opinion was even louder than the critical response to the latter. No doubt a little pre-transmission editing was felt necessary at this point. Still, at least there was no (ahem) "power cut" this time, unlike the last time the BNP were on the BBC :)

Furthermore, it is so obvious that the audience were selected to ensure that they do not represent the BNP's views. As expected, the audience comprised of the usual middle-class London types, with a strong emphasis on visible minorities, and virtually no working-class representation heard or seen. I am certain that if this programme were recorded at the BBC's Leeds, Birmingham or Manchester studios, and appropriately represented local demographics and views, the result would have been very different indeed.

What's more, why was the format of the programme changed? Except the question regarding the Gately article (which is a week out of date in itself) there was no discussion of the day's issues, just attacks on the BNP. This was one big mistake by the BBC in my opinion. It would have been interesting to hear Griffin debate other important issues (e.g. how to deal with the postal strike, or the war in Afghanistan, or even local issues like the long-running Leeds refuse collection dispute), but the BBC chose to devote almost the entire programme to the BNP's policy on immigration.

So, I suppose at least one good thing has come out of this: at least Labour have proved once and for all that they are the hopeless shower most of us think they are; but at the same time, the BNP shouldn't get too excited, because they have shown Griffin to be the useless politician we always though he was.

OsiedleRuda	Oct 23, 09, 13:32 #99
RevokeLisbon: But the Africans are the ones who never shut up about it. You forgot the Jews and us Poles, we never shut up about it either ;)

BarneyThreads: 14 Posts: 1,469 Joined: May 26, 08 ♂	Oct 23, 09, 14:15 #100
OsiedleRuda: You forgot the Jews and us Poles, we never shut up about it either And The Irish, obviously the most persecuted people on earth bar none;) I thought Dimbleby lost control of the debate from an early point. Bonnie Greer made perhaps the best points of the night and Chris Huhne gave the best political performance. All in all it wasnt a particularly satisfying edition.

♂

Edited by: Mister H Oct 23, 09, 15:30 #101

markcooper:

Trendy white people................yes like trendy white people doing the demonstrating outside BBC Studio's last night. They can all wake up this morning in leafy suburbia and give themselves a jolly good pat.

Yes, those sorts of people exactly. They made things worse yesterday, not better.

OsiedleRuda:

True. However, Jack Straw has been a politician for much longer, there was virtually no pressure on him, and I don't think he fared any better than Nick Griffin to be honest!

Jack Straw was rather embarrassing last night and Labour should have put someone up much tougher, but considering the entire Labour front bench are pretty much hated by everyone, their options were limited to say the least.

OsiedleRuda:

I can't see the BNP getting many more votes because of NG's appearance on this show (but their existing support will no doubt be celebrating) but I think that this is yet another nail in New Labour's coffin. It's rather ironic, but it took a black man to point out that Labour simply isn't listening on immigration, yet Straw still tried to evade the issue, and couldn't even be honest when challenged!

And it took a black lady to point out to Mr Straw that the term "afro-caribbean" made her cringe (she preferred african-caribbean) which just goes to show that people like Jack Straw are so busy telling everyone else what to think and what to say, that often they don't have a clue themselves.

OsiedleRuda:

Furthermore, it is so obvious that the audience were selected to ensure that they do not represent the BNP's views. As expected, the audience comprised of the usual middle-class London types, with a strong emphasis on visible minorities, and virtually no working-class representation heard or seen.

I don't think that any audience would have pleased everybody and to be honest I think it reasonable that if the BNP want to kick people out of the country, it's only fair that they get they were the majority of the audience. I saw plenty of white people and plenty of white people made comments.

It must have hurt like hell for Griffin to have all those non-white faces staring at him and not a single thing he could do about it. He must have been aching to insult them.

As for the format, the questions are set by the audience and most of the questions were bound to be about the BNP and Griffin's policies on race and immigration. If the guy at the front wants to kick you and your kids out of the country, even though you were born here, you're not going to be interested in questions on his take on credit crunch are you ?

southern:

Simply allow the Poles and EU citizens and throw pakis and Afros out.

That's a disgusting thing to say.

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Oct 23, 09, 15:36 #102

Mister H:

It just shows that being force to face his critics without his pet thugs at his side, he's nothing. He was a rabbit caught in headlights.

............

It must have hurt like hell for Griffin to have all those non-white faces staring at him and not a single thing he could do about it. He must have been aching to insult them.

I really doubt that!

I yesterday watched the german news about this bruhaha in the BBC and I really, really, really don't think Griffin was horrified by the many non-english Brits having a go at him....I don't think he expected something else from them nor does their opinion counts for him.
I mean...helloooo...that are the ones he wants to back their bags! It's not about discussion or clearing things up anymore...there is nothing left to say.

The 30 minutes in the spotlight with all the discussions going on before are much more valuable to him and his party!

♂

Edited by: BritishEmpire Oct 23, 09, 15:58 #103

Mister H:

Griffin is a leader of a party and has been been the BNP leader for years, so should be able to stand up to such pressure.

Well thats not true i'am afraid, any politician has a breaking point. Look at gordon brown, ted heath, jack straw e.t.c they all have been shown at various points to buckle under pressure and to be honest it doesn't surprise me as they are only human. At the end of the day the audience was very hostile, i mean come on that asian guy needed a slap when he called nick griffin "dick griffin", what an ar$ehole.

OsiedleRuda:

with a strong emphasis on visible minorities

I must say its rare to see jewish people in numbers but i must have seen four or five on the show

southern:

Simply allow the Poles and EU citizens and throw pakis and Afros out.

Or even better why just not control all immigrants.

♂

Edited by: time means Oct 23, 09, 16:24 #104

Mister H:

I thought that the audience was pretty mixed actually

Lmao yeah right, it was the biggest set up ever. It actually lived up to its name last night as in one question.

The idiot rent a mob outside when interviewed came up with the same old crap "this is how Hitler started" ffs i know the country is in a **** state but to compare it to post war versaille treaty Germany is a joke.

The goverment must have loved it no mention of the postal strike,bank bonuses,crime,mps expenses,unemployment..... the list could go on

♂

Edited by: Mister H Oct 23, 09, 16:41 #105

Bratwurst Boy:

I yesterday watched the german news about this bruhaha in the BBC and I really, really, really don't think Griffin was horrified by the many non-english Brits having a go at him....I don't think he expected something else from them nor does their opinion counts for him.
I mean...helloooo...that are the ones he wants to back their bags! It's not about discussion or clearing things up anymore...there is nothing left to say.

Most of them weren't non-English, they were British and made a point of saying so, they just happened not to be white.

Anyway Griffin is b1tching that about it being a "lynch mob" and may even complain to the BBC saying he was unfairly treated. What a girl !

I also think that Griffin was a bit rattled by the audience in that normally he has his security team surrounding him and he only visits areas where he knows he will be 'welcome'. If you were black or asian and you saw him in public, would you want to go and talk to him ?

He didn't have his usual entourage with him and he crumbled.

BritishEmpire:

Well thats not true i'am afraid, any politician has a breaking point. Look at gordon brown, ted heath, jack straw e.t.c they all have been shown at various points to buckle under pressure and to be honest it doesn't surprise me as they are only human. At the end of the day the audience was very hostile, i mean come on that asian guy needed a slap when he called nick griffin "dick griffin", what an ar$ehole

But Griffin has never (or certainly rarely) been on such TV programmes. He's a one-trick pony that can only shout his hatred to skinhead members in backstreet pubs. Take him out of that sceanrio and put him somewhere where he's on his own and he can't cope.

time means:

Lmao yeah right, it was the biggest set up ever. It actually lived up to its name last night as in one question.

The idiot rent a mob outside when interviewed came up with the same old crap "this is how Hitler started" ffs i know the country is in a **** state but to compare it to post war versaille treaty Germany is a joke.

The goverment must have loved it no mention of the postal strike,bank bonuses,crime,mps expenses,unemployment..... the list could go on

Yes they should have asked a few more questions, but this was his first time on such a thing and most ordinary folk had never had the chance to challenge him. There were probably people there that had waited years for the opportunity to ask him why they have such a problem with them.

♂

Oct 23, 09, 17:02 #106

Mister H:

a "lynch mob" and may even complain to the BBC saying he was unfairly treated.

And he would be fully justified because that's what it was.

Mister H:

he only visits areas where he knows he will be 'welcome'. If you were black or asian

That would be white areas, so much for multi cult cohesion eh.

Mister H:

to skinhead members in backstreet pubs

Which tabloid did you pull that from, what a cliche. Did you see some of the placards outside the BBC, stop the war and socilaist worker (commies) for two the usual rent a mob labour employs.

♂

Oct 23, 09, 18:05 #107

time means:

And he would be fully justified because that's what it was.

Why was it a lynch mob ?

Would you have preferred him not to have been questioned about any of the race/immigration topics then ?

time means:

That would be white areas, so much for multi cult cohesion eh.

I know and that was my point. Last night Griffin had to stand up for himself away his comfort zone and without his support network.

time means:

Which tabloid did you pull that from, what a cliche

What proportion of the BNP membership would you say were not the typical cliché of skinheads with their knuckles scraping the floor ?

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Oct 23, 09, 18:10 #108

Mister H:

Most of them weren't non-English, they were British and made a point of saying so, they just happened not to be white.

Well...they were non-english ethnic british citizens, right? In short, non-english Brits!

Mister H:

Last night Griffin had to stand up for himself away his comfort zone and without his support network.

Bring a black pro-immigration politician to a BNP pub and we will see how he will hold up.
What a joke!
That whole bruhaha wasn't about a serious discussion at all, get real man!
The BNP is like the german NPD just one of many symptoms...but most angry people will NOT vote for either the BNP or NPD but rather refrain from voting at all, totally desillusioned with the political system at all...THESE guys are not the enemy!

♂

Oct 23, 09, 18:21 #109

Mister H:

Why was it a lynch mob ?

Because it was a total set up from the off, the hand picked audience, rent a mob outside, have you ever seen a question time before where only one issue is covered.

Mister H:

Last night Griffin had to stand up for himself

I would like to see any politician come through such a grilling.

Mister H:

That would be white areas, so much for multi cult cohesion

The whole point of multi cult cohesion is that there are no such areas.

Mister H:

What proportion of the BNP membership would you say were not the typical cliché of skinheads with their knuckles scraping the floor ?

I haven't a clue, but i would say quite a lot. Skinheads lol come on what decade are you living in.

RevokeLisbon	Oct 23, 09, 18:43 #110
Mister H: Most of them weren't non-English, they were British and made a point of saying so, they just happened not to be white. British my eye. They are African or Arabic. If I moved to Japan, had kids, would they be Japanese? Of course not. Jesus was born in a stable, didnt mean he was a horse!

♂

Oct 23, 09, 18:52 #111

Bratwurst Boy:

Well...they were non-english ethnic british citizens, right? In short, non-english Brits!

No, British. I'm white british, they were british asian, black british etc.

Bratwurst Boy:

Bring a black pro-immigration politician to a BNP pub and we will see how he will hold up.
What a joke!
That whole bruhaha wasn't about a serious discussion at all, get real man!

It was never going to be perfect. Everyone watched the same programme, but there are so many different versions of what was "seen" and no one is totally happy.

Bratwurst Boy:

The BNP is like the german NPD just one of many symptoms...but most angry people will NOT vote for either the BNP or NPD but rather refrain from voting at all, totally desillusioned with the political system at all...THESE guys are not the enemy!

Who is the enemy then ?

time means:

I would like to see any politician come through such a grilling.

Griffin showed that he is not the big tough guy he likes to think he is when he is not with his minders plus he has a complicated past - all that KKK, holocaust denial stuff etc. The BNP should dump him and try and find someone with a cleaner image if they are serious about getting anywhere.

time means:

The whole point of multi cult cohesion is that there are no such areas.

I totally accept that there are parts of the country (some white and some not) that most people would not want to visit. Griffin does have a point when he talks about the failures of multi-cultural societies etc. The difference between someone like him and someone like me is that I want to see things get better for everyone, he just wants those he doesn't like to leave for good.

♂

Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Oct 23, 09, 18:57 #112

Mister H:

No, British. I'm white british, they were british asian, black british etc.

Yes...british, as I said, but not english. Do you have some problems with reading?

Mister H:

Griffin does have a point when he talks about the failures of multi-cultural societies etc.

Well...then let's talk about that okay?

Problem is that people who WANT to talk about that and offer solutions getting the BNP/Griffin treatment from the media as seen yesterday...

♂

Oct 23, 09, 19:02 #113

Mister H:

with his minders plus

Given the idiots outside wouldn't you want minders.

Mister H:

complicated past -

As did the panel, expense fraud for one thing. Something average joe on the street would go down for.

Mister H:

The difference between someone like him and someone like me is that I want to see things get better for everyone

Have you read their manifesto or just what the papers have written?

He made a very good point prior to going on the bbc regarding prisoners having tv for free while wounded squaddies in hospital have to pay (bed side tv). Like i said it suited the goverment to keep it to one question rather than raising other topics.

♂

Oct 23, 09, 19:08 #114

Bratwurst Boy:

Yes...british, as I said, but not english. Do you have some problems with reading?

Why aren't they English ? Some of the accents last night could have cut glass.

If you are born in England, then that makes you both English and British (in my opinion). Personally I don't harp on about being English really and just see myself as British.

I'm assuming that people from Poland living here, having children that will be born and raised here will want to be "considered English" ?

Bratwurst Boy:

Well...then let's talk about that okay?

Problem is that people who WANT to talk about that and offer solutions getting the BNP/Griffin treatment...

I'm happy to talk about it, I just hate it when it decends into a slanging match with some posts making blatant racist comments.

RevokeLisbon:

British my eye. They are African or Arabic. If I moved to Japan, had kids, would they be Japanese? Of course not. Jesus was born in a stable, didnt mean he was a horse!

Being born in a hospital doesn't make people doctors either.

For me it is very simple. If you are born in a country and you are raised there and that is pretty much the only country that you know, then that is your nationality regardless of where your parents came from.

♂

Oct 23, 09, 19:20 #115

Sorry, I see what is happening in the world and, like RL here on the forum, want to stem the tide. I am Scottish first and foremost and 'British' only by official label. I have some English friends and, unlike many of my fellow countrypeople, don't take an instant dislike as that's irrational. Unlike WB, I don't want a one-world government with the complete dissolution of national sovereignty. Devolution was resisted for so long and is only tolerated as long as supranational institutions exist with supremacy over their decisions. I can have a healthy respect for many of my fellow Europeans too without the imposition of rules for a union which serves the elite and has diluted democracy.

♂

Oct 23, 09, 19:30 #116

time means:

Given the idiots outside wouldn't you want minders.

Probably yes, but Griffin never goes anywhere without at least one pet thug.

time means:

Have you read their manifesto or just what the papers have written?

He made a very good point prior to going on the bbc regarding prisoners having tv for free while wounded squaddies in hospital have to pay (bed side tv). Like i said it suited the goverment to keep it to one question rather than raising other topics.

I've had a brief look at their website and read some of their key policies. I'm well aware of their plans.

Griffin did make some points that needed further discussion, as did everyone else. The only way of fully solving the outstanding issues is for him to go on again and on similar programmes. Uncomfortable but necessary I feel.

Seanus:

Sorry, I see what is happening in the world and, like RL here on the forum, want to stem the tide. I am Scottish first and foremost and 'British' only by official label. I have some English friends and, unlike many of my fellow countrypeople, don't take an instant dislike as that's irrational. Unlike WB, I don't want a one-world government with the complete dissolution of national sovereignty. Devolution was resisted for so long and is only tolerated as long as supranational institutions exist with supremacy over their decisions. I can have a healthy respect for many of my fellow Europeans too without the imposition of rules for a union which serves the elite and has diluted democracy.

Ahhh, "British by only official label" whereas I see myself as more British than English. Complicated business.

I agree with your post and the desire to "stem the tide". I think that most rational people would agree with you.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Oct 23, 09, 19:30 #117
Mister H: If you are born in England, then that makes you both English and British (in my opinion). What about what Rev said? If your son/daughter would be born in Japan, would that make him/here japanese??? Of course not, no sane man would say so. He/she would be a citizen of Japan, for sure, but never become of japanese heritage/ethnicity. What is your problem????

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,309 Joined: Apr 21, 08 ♂	Edited by: time means Oct 23, 09, 19:34 #118
Mister H: Griffin never goes anywhere without at least one pet thug. Come on mr h how do you know he is a thug? Because he fits a stereotype look perhaps, aren't the bnps policies based on certain stereotypes also?

♂

Oct 23, 09, 19:37 #119

Bratwurst Boy:

What about what Rev said? If your son/daughter would be born in Japan, would that make him/here japanese??? Of course not, no sane man would say so. He/she would be a citizen of Japan, for sure, but never become of japanese heritage/ethnicity.

So if the child grew up in Japan, Japanese was their first language, had Japanese friends and so on, what would they be ?

If they had their own children there, what would that make them ? How many generations would it take for them to be Japanese enough for you ?

Bratwurst Boy:

What is your problem????

I don't have one that I know of, maybe you would like to enlighten me ?

♂

Oct 23, 09, 19:55 #120

I occupy that position as it creates a greater sense of identity, Mister H. However, there is so much common culture in Britain that I could quite happily dub myself as British. I remember having a discussion in Izumo with my Brummy friend and his Welsh partner. It got into some interesting tangents and she was determined to see herself as Welsh due to the unique history and traditions that they have. Her resistance to being labelled British was stronger than mine as she wanted to shrug off the England&Wales tag. However, when out drinking and under the influence, she was more than happy to tell Japanese people that she was British.

The moral from that story is, beware of labels. When drunk, we may be thinking about a positive thing from our collective British culture and that's enough to become part of that by declaring it. Some go the other way and attempt to define themselves by region. In Scotland, we have many people who don't like teuchters (countryside people) but they are still Scots.

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