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BBC defend decision to invite the BNP to appear on tonight's "Question Time"


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Mister HThreads: 11
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 Oct 27, 09, 00:52    #181
Seanus:
Just wait until a general election is near. All the polls conducted will be amassed to ascertain public opinion and they'll roll with that sentiment. Very tedious how that works :(

He is very similar to William Hague (is that his name?). Charismatic but lacking polish and roundedness.

Wlliam Hague is a former Tory leader (before Ian Duncan Smith I think), they've had a lot of leaders over the years of opposition (who remembers Michael Howard ?!) and DC is the best that they have come up with.

Seanus:
I still maintain that John Smith would have been one of the best leaders that Britain had ever seen. RIP!

To think that If John Smith had not passed away so soon, he might well have been PM instead of Tony Blair and maybe we would not know what "New Labour" is !

Seanus:
The BNP, while radical, have a position too and I feel it to be folly and hypocritical that a party that has chalked up some voice in Europe should be kicked to the kerb/curb. Fine, criticism where criticism is due but let democracy takes its logical course.

They probably will ignore the BNP until it's too late. They won't get that far, but they might just manage to get an MP somewhere in the country.

SeanusThreads: 22
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 Oct 27, 09, 00:56    #182
Hague and Ian Smith, exactly. Charismatic in a way but air blowers for the most part. Howard has etched his notoriety in the annals of history with Paxman :) 16 times the same answer.

I'll stick with Old Labour improved through modernisation and progressive development :)

Exaggerated hysteria serves no end, I agree. If they get a seat, all power to them. As long as it wasn't through coercive voting like in Afghanistan and Iran, or so we are led to believe. Western meddling again :(
Mister HThreads: 11
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 Oct 27, 09, 01:06    #183
Seanus:
Hague and Ian Smith, exactly. Charismatic in a way but air blowers for the most part. Howard has etched his notoriety in the annals of history with Paxman :) 16 times the same answer.

Funnily enough I saw Ian Duncan Smith on Question Time a few months back and he spoke more sense in one hour as an ex-leader of the Tories then he ever did as a Tory party leader. Funny the freedom you get when you're asked to comment about a job you no longer do.

Seanus:
Exaggerated hysteria serves no end, I agree. If they get a seat, all power to them.

It's the shot in the arm the country needs, although I would much rather it came from UKIP than the BNP.
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Oct 27, 09, 01:11    #184
A bit like teaching under less pressure but still expected to be aware of key aspects.

In politics, like in other walks of life, it's set and setting (a Learyism). You turn it on when you need to.

We all have preferences but if the BNP is meant to be, it is meant to be. I'd rather not have them to, right enough.
BritishEmpireThreads: -
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Edited by: BritishEmpire  Oct 27, 09, 16:25    #185
Mister H:
By "live and let live" all I mean is that there is nothing wrong in respecting someone else's religion or culture, as long as it is not at the expense of my own.

Thats a bit contradictory though, the only way it can not come at your expense is to ensure that people assimilate and for that to happen the numbers entering the country must be controlled and a multicultural society cannot be allowed to exise. lebanon springs to mind.
Mister H:
I watched QT with a fairly open mind, in that I couldn't imagine Griffin converting me into a supporter, but I still wanted to hear what he had to say.

An open mind my foot, i think i proved once before when we had a discussion on immigration that even with the evidence heaped against you that you still chose to keep the same old views. Anyway haven't you heard QT was a setup.
Mister H:
Of course there will always be hard line people that will vote for the BNP regardless of anything. What I mean is that those that are wavering or voted for the BNP for the first time at the Euros, they are the people that the main parties are not listening too, they vote BNP out of desperation as much as anything else.

Thats not fair really is it, not fair on the BNP or the people that voted for them. Its well documented how much the BNP spent on campaigning for the Euro elections and how much they met with people face to face to discuss daily issues so i think that the majority of people that voted did so because they agree with the BNP.
Thats something that we just have to accept.
Mister HThreads: 11
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Edited by: Mister H  Oct 27, 09, 23:36    #186
Seanus:
We all have preferences but if the BNP is meant to be, it is meant to be. I'd rather not have them to, right enough.

I hope that their success is enough to rock the boat without leading to riots in the street.

BritishEmpire:
Thats a bit contradictory though, the only way it can not come at your expense is to ensure that people assimilate and for that to happen the numbers entering the country must be controlled and a multicultural society cannot be allowed to exise. lebanon springs to mind.

I've always spoken in favour of managed immigration with strict rules and even stricter consequences if those rules are broken.

BritishEmpire:
An open mind my foot, i think i proved once before when we had a discussion on immigration that even with the evidence heaped against you that you still chose to keep the same old views. Anyway haven't you heard QT was a setup.

Just what are those views exactly ?

BritishEmpire:
Thats not fair really is it, not fair on the BNP or the people that voted for them.

What's not fair ?

People that vote BNP have to be comfortable with their agenda. However it is dressed up, it is a fundamentally racist one.

People can't vote BNP and then get the ass ache when people think them racists.

BritishEmpire:
Its well documented how much the BNP spent on campaigning for the Euro elections and how much they met with people face to face to discuss daily issues so i think that the majority of people that voted did so because they agree with the BNP.
Thats something that we just have to accept.

Are they open about it enough to tell their boss or put a poster in their front room window ? I doubt it.
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Oct 27, 09, 23:45    #187
At one level, I like the BNP's policy of thwarting the process of fuller integration. Like yourself, Mister H, I like controlled immigration but they are seeking to make everything more controllable by them. I mean the globalists.
Mister HThreads: 11
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Joined: Jan 4, 08
Edited by: Mister H  Oct 28, 09, 00:46    #188
Seanus:
At one level, I like the BNP's policy of thwarting the process of fuller integration.

I just think that they would get much further if they dropped some of the extremist stuff and became more like UKIP, or maybe even joined forces with them.

It will be very interesting to see how they do in the General Election.

The cynical part of me thinks that if they are in danger of doing well and getting a few MPs, Gordon will have the ballot boxes rigged to stop that from happening !!
SeanusThreads: 22
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Joined: Dec 25, 07
 Oct 28, 09, 00:52    #189
A coalition may be the best strategy as the BNP looks like it can be more flexible than it was. Gordon Brown will have to stop taking the golden brown if he is to stand a chance.
BritishEmpireThreads: -
Posts: 195
Joined: Apr 26, 09
 Oct 28, 09, 01:47    #190
Mister H:
I've always spoken in favour of managed immigration with strict rules and even stricter consequences if those rules are broken.

I might have missed that but its nice to hear.
Mister H:
Just what are those views exactly ?

A couple of times you seem to be defensive towards polish people, lets be honest here. We all no that poles will be one of the groups that might be restricted.
Mister H:
What's not fair ?

People that vote BNP have to be comfortable with their agenda. However it is dressed up, it is a fundamentally racist one.

People can't vote BNP and then get the ass ache when people think them racists.

O.k lets look at the actual word, according to the oxford dictionary racism is the belief that there are characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to each race. F**k iam racist then and so are more than half this forum.
Mister H:
Are they open about it enough to tell their boss or put a poster in their front room window ? I doubt it.

I don't think that being racist is a problem if we use the correct understanding of it as i have wrote above, if we use the labour or "lefty" version of it then it all of a sudden becomes about hate and only hate. People have the right to dislike people because they are different or because they don't like their culture and nobody should have to feel ashamed about that. Anyway there is nothing that can really happen at your work place if you admit to voting for the BNP if you have your head screwed on, after all its a political party.
IronsideThreads: 56
Posts: 6,196
Joined: Feb 26, 09
 Oct 28, 09, 03:10    #191
BritishEmpire:
And the BNP have to do little to incite any hatred towards polish people as most do a good job of attracting hatred towards themselves.

such as ......?

BritishEmpire:
poles will be one of the groups that might be restricted.

How?
BritishEmpireThreads: -
Posts: 195
Joined: Apr 26, 09
 Oct 28, 09, 03:55    #192
Ironside:
such as ......?

There is always one that wants to play hardball, We will start with something easy for you like their behaviour which is normally a good starting point.
Ironside:
How?

I think a better question would be how wouldn't they be, poles are probably the largest immigrant population in the uk so if the uk was to look at kerbing immigration then why on gods earth would poles not be restricted.
SeanusThreads: 22
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Joined: Dec 25, 07
 Oct 28, 09, 11:24    #193
I think he meant, in what way? You open the floodgates at your peril as you know that it's very hard to reverse the flow. Influx through rights, expulsion through what, admission of being wrong?
IronsideThreads: 56
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 Oct 28, 09, 13:04    #194
BritishEmpire:
I think a better question would be how wouldn't they be

Restricted - in what way?
BritishEmpire:
poles are probably the largest immigrant population in the uk

3rd largest I think.

BritishEmpire:
There is always one that wants to play hardball,

I'm asking questions - do you have problem with that ?
BritishEmpire:
like their behaviour which is normally a good starting point.

Could be more specific? I mean, could you give me some examples of behavior which attracts hatred?
(Spiting on the street and speaking foreign language???)
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,160
Joined: Dec 25, 07
 Oct 28, 09, 13:06    #195
He probably meant quotas but too little, too late.

They can't be any more loutish than Brits out on the randan. They also have a right to their privacy after work. It all depends if socialising is expected as part of a team.
ShelleySThreads: 18
Posts: 3,647
Joined: Jun 26, 07
 Oct 28, 09, 14:20    #196
Seanus:
They can't be any more loutish than Brits out on the randan.

I dont think he was talking about a small miniorty who work in Poland or the idiots that go for the cheap beer.

Ironside:
3rd largest I think.

In such a short time thats quite a mean feat :D

By the way its not just the BNP that want to restrict immigration of those from the new member states UKip also want this.
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Oct 28, 09, 14:23    #197
Neither do I, Shell :)
IronsideThreads: 56
Posts: 6,196
Joined: Feb 26, 09
 Oct 28, 09, 14:27    #198
ShelleyS:
By the way its not just the BNP that want to restrict immigration of those from the new member states UKip also want this.

You mean restriction = no more immigrants ?
Is that realistic? I mean according to the EU law - Seanus ?
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,160
Joined: Dec 25, 07
 Oct 28, 09, 14:40    #199
Restriction means cutting back, Ironside, not outright prohibition and expulsion.

The Dutch, as a founding member of the EU, have a quota system in place so why can't Britain?
IronsideThreads: 56
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 Oct 28, 09, 14:50    #200
Seanus:
have a quota system in place so why can't Britain?

Well, ask your government!

You saying that according to EU law Britain can introduce quota for immigrants from EU country's?!
Is that all?
From the above discussion I gathered there is a lot more on the plate?
Like kick all foreigners out or something.
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Oct 28, 09, 15:07    #201
Kicking all foreigners out would never be allowed. It's so implausible. The government don't care as long as they are earning big bucks for themselves.
frdThreads: 8
Posts: 1,956
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 Oct 28, 09, 15:10    #202
Seanus:
Kicking all foreigners

Beside how would differentiate who to kick and who not to kick, some "foreigners" have lived in UK for ages..
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Oct 28, 09, 15:14    #203
Therein lies the problem! Selectivism is a danger and would give rise to spurious decisions. It is ensconced in EU legislation (a Directive) that as long as an immigrant can constructively apply their trade, they have a right to live and work abroad. This was after extensive deliberation.

The powers that be want this scenario so expect no reversals/rescinding.
IronsideThreads: 56
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 Oct 28, 09, 15:22    #204
Seanus:
Kicking all foreigners out would never be allowed.

Isn't what BNP is about ?

Seanus:
EU legislation

What about non-EU immigrants ?

frd:
Beside how would differentiate who to kick and who not to kick

kick out those who wasn't born in the country or without citizenship or who lived there for a period shorter then 20, 10 or 5 years.?
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Oct 28, 09, 15:27    #205
I don't think the new BNP would do that, no. EU law is a collective and concerted drive that will not be reversed. Griffin would be assassinated if he tried that.

I am not an expert on what the legislation says there.
Mister HThreads: 11
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Edited by: Mister H  Oct 29, 09, 00:00    #206
BritishEmpire:
I might have missed that but its nice to hear.

I think you must have done. I don't have an issue with immigration if it is properly managed (which it is not at the moment) and I think that the UK should be able to cap numbers.

BritishEmpire:
A couple of times you seem to be defensive towards polish people, lets be honest here. We all no that poles will be one of the groups that might be restricted.

I wouldn't say I was defensive as such, but I don't have a go at the them for the sake of it. EU immigration should be just like non-EU immigration and movement should be controlled.

BritishEmpire:
I don't think that being racist is a problem if we use the correct understanding of it as i have wrote above, if we use the labour or "lefty" version of it then it all of a sudden becomes about hate and only hate

I would say that the percentage of racists that come into that category, where it is not all about hatred, would be pretty small.

BritishEmpire:
People have the right to dislike people because they are different or because they don't like their culture and nobody should have to feel ashamed about that.

Yes they have that right, but that's deciding to dislike someone without knowing anywhere near enough about them.

BritishEmpire:
Anyway there is nothing that can really happen at your work place if you admit to voting for the BNP if you have your head screwed on, after all its a political party.

It would probably would depend on the company.

If I worked with someone that admitted to being in the BNP, it would make me view them differently and they would make me feel uncomfortable.

Seanus:
I don't think the new BNP would do that, no. EU law is a collective and concerted drive that will not be reversed. Griffin would be assassinated if he tried that.

Will the New BNP be has popular as New Labour once was ? ;-)
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Oct 29, 09, 00:04    #207
I don't think they'll ever get that chance. Baby Blair pulled the wool over people's eyes better than that hopelessly inexperienced pilot flew the plane into the Pentagon, a maneuver which even the best pilots would have needed 10 attempts to pull off.

I just couldn't imagine Griffin in QT. He'd drastically undermine the credibility of British politics.
Mister HThreads: 11
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Joined: Jan 4, 08
 Oct 29, 09, 00:33    #208
Seanus:
Kicking all foreigners out would never be allowed. It's so implausible. The government don't care as long as they are earning big bucks for themselves.

Kicking out all foreigners isn't practical, although they should certainly get rid of those that exist on benefits and don't contribute to society.

frd:
Beside how would differentiate who to kick and who not to kick, some "foreigners" have lived in UK for ages..

If they love it here that much then they should apply for British citizenship, which is what is happening those that have "indefinite leave to remain".

Seanus:
It is ensconced in EU legislation (a Directive) that as long as an immigrant can constructively apply their trade, they have a right to live and work abroad.

Then what happens to those claiming the dole ?

I've never heard of anyone being made to go back home (by law) because they can't find a job.
SeanusThreads: 22
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Edited by: Seanus  Oct 29, 09, 00:39    #209
I was trained to read EU legislation correctly and they should be doing that already. The latest Directive expressly states that they should only be here if they are contributing or are taking active steps to contribute to British society.

I think there has to be some flexibility, Mister H. Having been in the position of job seeker before, it's not that easy. It depends on the region you choose to relocate to. I'd love to live in my home city to be near my parents again. However, there aren't so many vacancies with people who possess my skills. I'd have to land on my feet but I'm not a cat and neither are many Poles.

Although not PC, I am liberal enough to grant Poles a chance. Heck, some Brits have made a life off of sponging from the state so we need to be understanding. Monitoring will show if they are sponging or not.
Mister HThreads: 11
Posts: 845
Joined: Jan 4, 08
 Oct 29, 09, 01:03    #210
Seanus:
I was trained to read EU legislation correctly and they should be doing that already. The latest Directive expressly states that they should only be here if they are contributing or are taking active steps to contribute to British society.

That is definitely a new one on me. I have no idea who or what department is meant to monitor something like that.

Seanus:
I think there has to be some flexibility, Mister H. Having been in the position of job seeker before, it's not that easy.

I agree and I think all but the very lucky know how it feels to have been looking for work at some stage.

All I've heard about the dole side of things is that the Polish and similar have to be able to prove that they live in the UK permanently and have 12 months continuous NI contributions.

Seanus:
Although not PC, I am liberal enough to grant Poles a chance. Heck, some Brits have made a life off of sponging from the state so we need to be understanding. Monitoring will show if they are sponging or not.

I'm all for giving people a fair chance too. I'm not sure if the system is tough enough to determine the scroungers from the genuine.


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