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The Celts in Poland.


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SeanBMThreads: 41
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 Dec 15, 08, 16:53    #1
I found this very interesting for serendipitous reasons.
[b][/b]Celtic site found in Poland
It is in Polish but basically it talks about 17 Celtic houses from 280 - 277 B.C.
Found in Niepolomice, Poland.
Apparently they had glass too.
Here is a photo of the site and a bracelet






PolsonThreads: 15
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 Dec 15, 08, 17:03    #2
It's said that the Celts who settled on the Western coasts of Europe, originally came from these areas of Central Europe :)
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Edited by: SeanBM  Dec 15, 08, 17:36    #3
Polson:

It's said that the Celts who settled on the Western coasts of Europe, originally came from these areas of Central Europe :)

Great,
I am not so good at Polish.
I did not know they had been here.
Celts (Wiki)
The light green colour are the "maximal Celtic expansion, by the third century BC"


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 Dec 19, 08, 16:38    #4
Interesting map. There are similarities in roots between the Irish and Turkish languages and in the old story telling song styles (Sean Nós in Irish) of both cultures.

Looks like the Celts were generally aiming for America even back then :)
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Edited by: SeanBM  Jan 2, 09, 12:01    #5
Shawn_H found this article in English.

Archaeologists unearth 3rd to 2nd century BC Celtic village in Poland
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Edited by: SeanBM  Feb 15, 09, 16:02    #6
Further information on the celtic settlement from the Krakow Post.
Krakow Post (click here)

"some of them went through the Moravian lands (now part of the Czech Republic) to Malopolska in the 3rd century BC, before any Slavic tribe got here."

Ha ha ha ha, so I have come home at last and historically speaking all the Slavs are just guests ha ha ha (joke of course;)
osiolThreads: 59
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 Feb 15, 09, 16:32    #7
I don't believe they were the same Celts. Modern day Celts descend from the people who have lived there since people first migrated to Britain and Ireland after the last ice-age. Culture moves faster and further than people.
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Edited by: SeanBM  Feb 15, 09, 16:38    #8
That is a fair enough point and I wonder how closely related we are?.

"The Celts were originally a Germanic people" from Here
Which I have never heard before and think it is wrong, to a large degree.
Not to say these peoples did not mix, of course but the Germanic people have/had a different language and culture to the Celts.

Celts (Wiki)
osiolThreads: 59
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 Feb 15, 09, 16:50    #9
I think if you look at what spread Celtic culture, you might find that it was small numbers of warrior people who roamed around Europe taking over places, where the sedentary population remained pretty much the same. Remember that Celtic, Germanic, Slavic, Italic, etc. languages all descend from the same group. Some of the differences may be accounted for by this language being adopted by different groups who already spoke different (unrelated?) languages.
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 Feb 16, 09, 10:39    #10
osiol:
Celtic, Germanic, Slavic, Italic, etc. languages all descend from the same group.

Fair point, how far back was that?.

Languages
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Edited by: SeanBM  Jun 10, 09, 15:48    #11
Ok, so this thread is talking about Celts in Poland.
I am going to go slightly off topic and talk about the people and about one building in particular, in Ireland before the Celts arrived.

Newgrange was built about 3200 BC. Over 5000 years ago.
rsdtbgdrstgv

This is a plan and cross section of the interior of Newgrange.
It is cruciform in shape but of course this was over 3000 years before Christ.
rthdx
egsfvrsaerbg

This is the entrance, behind the huge stone.
Notice the purpose built hole above the door, called the roofbox.
http://www.lynotttours.com/images/newgrange.jpg

On the morning of the Winter Solstice, the rising sun beams through the roofbox and floods the passage with light. Illuminating right to the very end chamber.
fbgssdfb

To be continued....
BarneyThreads: 14
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 Jun 10, 09, 16:25    #12
osiol:
Culture moves faster and further than people.

Very true.

From the Urnfield and Bellbeaker peoples of the east to the Megalithic erectors along the Western European littoral, successful cultures have expanded through cultural dominance. Renfrew et al pointed out in their work on Neolithic Britain, coupled with Kirk's work on the behavioural environment, that it took the surplus of 50 farmers to feed one non farmer. Now think how many man hours it took to build Newgrange.

What became known as Celtic culture from the Hallstatt period through to the full blown La Tene culture and beyond radiated like ripples in a pond. Today’s Celtic fringe was a latter day Celtic backwater.

There are two interesting things in the map above firstly the Basque land is not highlighted and secondly the "Island" in Anatolia. In this latter region there are many carvings depicting high Celtic art. This came about through the use of Celtic mercenaries who latter settled. We all know of these people from St Paul's letter to the Galatians
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Edited by: SeanBM  Jun 10, 09, 17:51    #13


The entrance stone.
dfzdf
dzfbvzdf
zdfbzdf
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 Jun 11, 09, 14:40    #14
About Newgrange, National Geographic (click here)

The ceiling of Newgrange is corbelled roof, jokingly referred to the driest roof in Ireland ;)
cileing of Newgrange

At the end of the passage there are three chambers.
These chambers contain basins, with burnt remains of five (?) humans, along with pieces of jewellery.
basin
So it is presumed that this is a burial chamber of sorts.

---------------------------------------------------------------

This is the stone at the back of the building, again showing Spirals, Lozenges or Zig-Zag formations.

Back stone, foundation stone

Again this "Zig-Zag" motif is found on the entrance stone and repeated along the passage and again inside the chamber.

OK, so here is the "new" part of our understanding.
This is an interesting theory but remember it is only a theory, for now anyway.

I have heard that the resonant frequency of the inside of the man made passage was constructed in such a way that the reverberations produce some unusual and interesting effects.
The resonant frequency is 110hz, the frequency of the male baritone, the second lowest singing voice (chanting).
And when the inside of the passage is filled with smoke or mist, the resonant frequency reverberates turning the smoke into the Zig-Zag formation!.

"Archaeologists have suggested that chanting, singing and drumming at these sites would have produced reverberating echoes that might have been interpreted as voices of spirits or gods; they may also have induced physiological and psychological changes in people, adding to their potency as sites of spiritual importance.

These acoustic discoveries may also shed light on some of the visual motifs etched into the walls of many ancient sites. Experiments in a replica of the Newgrange passage, at Princeton University, showed that if a site was smoky or misty, standing sound waves would become visible as they vibrated particles in the air. Could this visualising effect account for the zigzag and concentric ring markings on the chamber walls? "

From The Guardian (click here)

Also some more information can be found Here and Also from here and From here.

Just imagine over 5000 years ago these people built this monument for their dead, with materials from all over the country.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Newgrange is not alone, it is just one piece of a much bigger puzzle.
There are other passage graves in this area, such as Knowth
Knowth Knowth basin
and Dowth
dowth Dowth entance
[url=http://www.knowth.com/fourknocks.htm]
Fourknocks[/url]
Fourknocks Four Knocks

Built at the same period these make a much larger complex.

"It is clear from the orientation of the passage-mounds that the whole complex was devoted to accurate measuring of both the lunar and solar cycles simultaneously."

Newgrange complex

Celestial significance?.
A giant warrior in the Landscape (click here)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a keen interest in this topic and have studied quite a bit and I am trying to get across the most interesting parts, to create an interest.
It stirs the imagination to wonder why, how and about that period of history.
I personally believe that a lot of knowledge has been lost and here we have a trace, a glimpse in to the past.
I would have loved to have known what Nikola Tesla and his study of frequency could have brought to this.

There used to be a huge backlog of ticket holders to see Newgrange from the inside on the winter solstice, so now the tickets are given by lottery.
Admission to the chamber of Newgrange for the Winter Solstice sunrise is by lottery. Application forms are available at the reception desk in the Brú na Bóinne Visitor Centre. County meath, IrelandFrom here

All I ask is that do not touch the stone, it has lasted for over 5000 years, it would be great if it could last another 5000 years.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Also worth mentioning are all the Dolmens (Portal tomb ) Most date from the early Neolithic period (4000 to 3000 BC) Dolmen

Court tomb, Court tombThere are over 350 known court-tombs in the whole of Ireland.

and Wedge tomb. Wedge tomb

Of course similar constructions can be found in other parts of Europe and indeed the world but my focus is on Ireland.
Which is rich in prehistoric myths and legends about these enigmatic people and structures.
For an example these were referred to as fairy mounds.
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Jun 11, 09, 21:56    #15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYC2RXylWl8, Newgrange by Clannad.

This has video images of what Seanny has shown above. Any true Celt should feel pride when listening to and watching this.

God Bless Clannad!!
SeanBMThreads: 41
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 Jun 11, 09, 22:10    #16
Seanus:
Any true Celt should feel pride when listening to and watching this.

Just to make sure we are on the same page, the people who built Newgrange were way before the Celts.
The Celts are traditionally thought to have colonised Ireland in a series of waves between the 8th and 1st centuries BC, that is 2300 years after the building of Newgrange.
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Jun 11, 09, 22:14    #17
I know that but you know how land and territory works ;) ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5orfCHMmM8, this is unmistakably Celtic. Theme from Harry's Game done only 2 years ago. Imtheochaidh soir is siar, A dtáinig ariamh an ghealach is an ghrian
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Edited by: Moderator  Jun 14, 09, 14:30    #18
Very interesting information SeanBM. As you already know, I had the pleasure of a brief visit to the Dublin area of Ireland. Four days and much to explore. I wanted to go to Newgrange, but only made it to Dowth. Here are a few pictures from my trip:

Broken links removed

Wish I could have seen Newgrange, too....but I only stopped in Ireland a few days to visit friends that live in Dublin and were orginally from Gdańsk. Then it was on to Poland.
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Edited by: Softsong  Jun 14, 09, 14:50    #19
Well...I've made a mess above. I must have picked the wrong link at photobucket and when I went to edit, took too long as I was denied access. I should probably just post a link to the slide show. :-/

And if this works, you'll see Slane Hill, Dublin, and some shots of Poland, too.

http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e87/Softsong/October%202008%20Trip/? albumview=slideshow
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Edited by: Torq  Jun 20, 09, 17:17    #20
Barney:
Newgrange was built about 3200 BC. Over 5000 years ago.

Newgrange is an amazing place. I had an opportunity to visit it when I was living
in Ireland and was really impressed by the precision and sophistication of the
structures there.

It made me realize how little we still know about human history.
SeanBMThreads: 41
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 Jun 20, 09, 18:12    #21
Back on topic, here is a link to Wikipedia about Celts in Poland (click here)
The first Celtic people arrived in Poland, coming from Bohemia and Moravia, around or after 400 BC

At first two groups established themselves on fertile grounds in Silesia: One on the left bank of the Oder River south of Wrocław, in the area that included Mount Ślęża, and one around the Głubczyce highlands; both stayed in their respective regions during the 400-120 BC period. Burial and other significant Celtic sites in Głubczyce County were investigated in Kietrz and nearby Nowa Cerekiew.


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 Jun 20, 09, 20:09    #22
We're all related.
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Jun 20, 09, 20:25    #23
Głubczyce is not so far from here. It is on the way to the Czech Republic from Gliwice.

Wow, Seanny, you have really traced our Celtic ancestry far back.
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 Jun 20, 09, 22:49    #24
Celt made considerate impact in the territories which belong to Poland, I believe much greater that material evidence show.
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 Jun 20, 09, 22:57    #25
Are you referring to a spiritual contribution, Ironside? We certainly crafted the Poznań mentality ;)
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 Jun 21, 09, 00:07    #26
Seanus:
Are you referring to a spiritual contribution, Ironside? We certainly crafted the Poznań mentality ;)

I'm referring to Celts their culture which I believe made great impact on Polish culture and is generally underestimate but I don't have any evidence to back it up!))))
And maybe Celtic traits in Polish culture are the contributions of Scottish immigrants???)))
Whats wrong with Poznan ?I'm from Poznan!
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Jun 21, 09, 00:10    #27
Well, the Scots have been around in Poland mainly from around 1576. Our history goes back far. We appreciated your contribution in WWII.

Poznanians have a rep for being stingy, you couldn't have got that from us ;) ;)
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 Jun 21, 09, 00:58    #28
Seanus:
Poznanians have a rep for being stingy, you couldn't have got that from us ;) ;)

Sure being sensible with your money it is not what I would suspect Scots of))))

I wonder if Celtic traits in Polish culture originated from Celtic background centuries ago or from Scottish immigrants?
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 Jun 21, 09, 01:09    #29
It could be a combination of both :)
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 Jun 21, 09, 02:34    #30
Seanus:
It could be a combination of both :)

Do you reckon?

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