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The Celts in Poland.


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JowitaThreads: -
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 Oct 21, 09, 11:05    #61
Below are some links I have found - there may be more of it,,

Irish Mission in Poland

As for the Irish Christianity in Poland, long time ago Alfons Parczewski published a book:
Poczatki chrystianizmu w Polsce a misja irlandzka, 1902 (Preliminaries of the Christianity in Poland, and the Irish mission). The book has been digitized and is available for free:
http://www.wbc.poznan.pl/publication/107604

In the more recent times the subject was taken by Jerzy Strzelczyk, as you probably know.


There is a webpage in Polish about the parish Tropie in Lesser Poland.

See the history section:
http://www.tropie.tarnow.opoka.org.pl/historia.htm
..where the author tries to argue that the Irish missionaries were responsible for establishing the local church, ca. 828! He believes the alleged Irish mission had came from Nitra, Slovakia) Polish only.




Archeology


The book cited below is undoubtedly academic, but in English:

Celts on the margin : studies in European cultural interaction 7th century BC - 1st century AD dedicated to Zenon Woźniak, Krakow 2005
should contain bibliography of the subject...


Sometimes Archeologia Zywa (a popular magazine about archeology) publishes articles and notes about Celtic excavations in Poland (in Polish...) There is a search option.
http://www.archeologia.com.pl/


I have found a site of the Warsaw Univeristy project Ekspedycja Celtycka
http://www.ekspedycjaceltycka.uw.edu.pl/index.php

IronsideThreads: 59
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 Oct 28, 09, 03:15    #62
Jowita:
Below

Thanks !
stevewThreads: 3
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 Oct 28, 09, 04:31    #63
I'm pretty sure that the Górals share an ancestry with the Gaels.

The Polish Highlanders seem a rather Celtic lot. The way they speak etc.

When I was in Zakopane, the accent of the Góral people reminded me a lot of Scots.

And the pronunciation... Gael, Goidel, Góral with its long o and trilled r.
SeanusThreads: 22
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 Oct 28, 09, 11:18    #64
The difference being that they are much more temperamental than us. Scottish Highlanders are less raw and more easy to access.

There could be a relationship here, though, as hospitality is very much in the blood of both.
JowitaThreads: -
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Edited by: Jowita  Oct 30, 09, 13:53    #65
Well. there was an amateur linguist dr Feliks Michalowski (an emigree medic, had a G.P. practice in France, 19th century.) He published some articles and brochures about alleged affinities between Poles and Celts. Argued, for instance that the word Gaidheal had something in common with the Polish word gaduła ;) (gaduła: in Polish, a talkative guy) Sadly, as you Gaels know, the middle d is not pronounced here...

I am afraid, but the theories of the old doc are regarded as rather fantasy now. However, I would be happy, if anyone will proove at least that the talkative Gorale had genetically anything in common with the Gaels... (As for now, I am afraid that the only Gaelic Goral should be Colin Farrell's new son... ;)
SeanBMThreads: 41
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 Oct 30, 09, 14:03    #66
Jowita:
some links I have found - there may be more of it,,

Excellent, thank you for that, I will have a look when I get the chance.

Jowita:
affinities between Poles and Celts.

You might enjoy contributing to Were Celts Slavs or not? Are Celts included in Polish ancestry? :)
JowitaThreads: -
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Edited by: Jowita  Nov 2, 09, 10:35    #67
Thanks for the suggestion! I need to go first through all they have produced already;)
And it seems at the moment they are more preoccupied with ancient Slavs, especially Sorbs, than Celts.. Personally, I can't believe that Celts were Slavs ;) My specialty is rather the 19th century than the ancient times.
IronsideThreads: 59
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 Nov 2, 09, 23:47    #68
Jowita:
I can't believe that Celts were Slavs ;

ethnically there is not such a thing as Celts:P
Technically there is only Celtic culture spread widely in the northern part of Europe.

So, ethically speaking - who knows.
And culturally thinking - its quite possible!

I-S( ha!didn't said it earlier as he is a good sport, sometimes anyway)
JowitaThreads: -
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 Nov 4, 09, 10:15    #69
Ironside ethnically there is not such a thing as Celts:P
Technically there is only Celtic culture spread widely in the northern part of Europe.


Can you explain what did you mean by 'ethnically'? Did you mean genetics/blood that will be always tricky issue, because all Europeans are mixed?
There are DNA laboratories offering people tracing their ancestors backwards even to ancient Mongolia. I am not sure if they can assume how close the population of Poland is to the population of Scotland, for instance... Genes of the 17th century Scottish sales reps and Irish mercenaries in Poland could alter the image in favour of Celts...

I suspect that many people would disagree with the statement that there are no Celts as such ;) For me (am not an anthropologist) ethnos is about culture, too. The idea of Celts, for instance can be understood in different ways. Even the old legendary chronicles of Ireland say that the Irish are mixture. But what makes them Celts is for me their (native) language, and culture that has something in common with other Celts. But I am aware that many various theories of Celticity exist...
IronsideThreads: 59
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 Nov 4, 09, 22:27    #70
Jowita:
Can you explain what did you mean by 'ethnically'?

I mean that there was no tribe or ethnic entity related by blood.
Celts were bunch of different ethnic and tribal
entities related by culture - common gods, story's, similar languages etc
tcooper913Threads: 4
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 Dec 16, 09, 22:15    #71
Thanks SeanB!! Very interesting. I read this some time ago, and had been searching for it to read again. Most of my ancestors were Scots-Irish (US term), or better known as Ulster Scots with a little English/Irish mixed in.
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Edited by: SeanBM  Mar 5, 10, 18:18    #72
I am going to put forward an idea I have had since I moved to Krakow first from Sligo (West coast of Ireland).
That the mounds in Krakow are in fact Celtic Cairns built before the Slavs arrived in the Bronze age (1800–1600 BC).
Sligo's landscape is dominated by a cairn "Knocknarea" (large hill with a stone structure on the top) It looks kind of like a breast with a nipple. There are many more in the area but I would just like to give you an example.

Knocknarea with a Carrowmore tomb in the foreground:
cairn



Medb's cairn at the summit of Knocknarea:
cairn





And here in Krakow there are two older ''Kopiec'' that I think may be left from the Celts and it appears I am not the only one:

The age and the original purpose of the mound remain a mystery. Excavations conducted in mid-1930s revealed that the mound consists of a solid wooden core covered with soil and turf. Some artifacts dating from between the 8th and 10th centuries were found inside, but no human remains were discovered. According to another hypothesis the mound is of Celtic origin and dates from the 2nd-1st century BCE.[2]

Wiki


The pair of man-made barrows some fifty feet high (16.7 m and 14.6 m respectively) upon natural elevations 5,5 miles apart were easily seen from afar. And together with two natural Krakow hills they constitute a gigantic astronomical calendar. From the westernmost Sikornik mountain one can observe the sunrise exactly over the Wawel Hill on the spring equinox as well as on the autumnal one, and over the Mound of Krak on November 1, i.e. the Celtic New Year’s Day. While watched from the Mound of Krak, the sun rises over the Mound of Wanda on the eve of the second biggest feast of Celts, May 1.

Krakow Mounds



The Krakus Mound contains, according to legend, a tomb of Krak, the ancient ruler of Cracow. In reality it was more likely to have been used as a religious site of the Celts.

Krakow 4 U


There is also a theory linking the rise to mounds (Krakusa and Wanda) With the presence of Celtic in this area. The Celtic culture of mounds served an important function of a cult, just might be in this case. It was observed that azimuth connecting the two mounds is consistent with the azimuth of sunrise on 1 May. Similar compliance was found in the case of two mounds in the vicinity Przemysl, Except that they shall appoint 1 November. In the Celtic calendar, these dates were important festival associated with the division year in two halves. If this is not a coincidence could testify about the role of the mound as an astronomical observatory, or even the type of calendar.

Wiki in Polish


Today these cairns still dominate the landscape.
SeanBMThreads: 41
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 May 16, 10, 12:51    #73
Galicja
Galicia, Galacia or Halychyna (Polish: Galicja, Ukrainian: Галичина (Halychyna), German: Galizien; Russian: Галичина (Galichina), Yiddish: גאליציע (Galitsie), Czech: Halič) is a historical region in Eastern Europe, currently divided between Poland and Ukraine,

Galicia (there is also another one in Poland), Galitia (Turkey), Gaul (France), and Gailes (the Irish Celts). All appear to have a similar root in a common language reinforcing the once dominance of the Celtic people across Europe’s boundaries.

Some History of the Celts in Europe and Galicia

Here's a map:
dsfgsdfgsf

Which fits the Celtic territory:
dfsgvdgdfv

The region has a turbulent history. In Roman times the region was populated by various tribes of Celto-Germanic admixture, including Celtic-based tribes – like the Galice or "Gaulics" and Bolihinii or "Volhynians" – the Lugians and Cotini of Celtic, Vandals and Goths of Germanic origins (the Przeworsk and Púchov cultures). Beginning with the Wandering of the nations, the great migration coincident with the fall of the Roman Empire, the area was invaded by various groups of nomadic people, starting with late-100 AD Scythians, Sarmatians (including Alans, Croats and Serbs) (4th-5th century), Huns (5th century), Avars (6th-8th century), Slavs (with Slavized Croats and Serbs, 6th-9th century),

I included the part about Serbs for you Crow ;)

Galicia (Eastern Europe) Wiki


This is just a theory, I have no really proof and there seems to be very little information on it.
Perhaps someone can refute it or add more.
duanvindos  Jun 29, 11, 00:08    #74
Ancient Imperial Rome attacked southern Poland and annexed it to their colony of Pannonia. The chronicles of this activity mention that they had found Celts living there. Details are sketchy, but it is good that modern archaeology and anthropology are tearing down untruthful barriers between the various nationalities of Europe. Nobody is 100% inbred and isolated, nobody invented their technology in isolation from all other technical substrata. Things come and go in waves, then come around again, in one or another form.

Current work on the Pre-Iron Age inhabitants of Poland, and Europe in general, also is interesting. I had the privilege of knowing about the Tarim basin mummies decades ago, thanks to $5 bills and packs of Marlboros. Odd that they were dressed in wollen twills with patterns so like those found on pickeld Celts from the central European salt mines! Also very strange is the statistical rate of occurrence of culturally vital cognates, syntactic usages, and nearly identical root words between both known Tocharian dialects adn Old Irish. Also strange is the similarity between what the small population of Sogdians (nearest living relatives of the Tocharians) speak and Old Irish/proto-Celtic. Very strange also are the silken items found in old Celtic tumuli and chariot graves in the various Halstatt zones...and the shoes look so much like those on the Celtic man in the Hochdorf tumulus...and white jade beads in some graves, Khotanese jade. Wish someone will think to do genotypes on the cannabis found in these graves and compare it to that found in ancient Khotan/Sogdiana/Gandharva. Could open up a bit of discussion about where we all came from, how much people travelled on the silk road, and shed light on back-migrations, too.

The evidence is strong that the ancient Celts were very much influenced by the Sarmatian and Skythian cultures, and by others similar to them. The evidence is also fairly clear that these contributed a lot to the formation of the Slavic Peoples. Even if there was little relation until fairly recent times when Irish swords for hire found a living in the Polish Army, it shows there were powerful connections, een if we don't give lonely wandering 7th and 8th century Irish friars credit for liking winsome Polish women ;) and remember, celibacy among Catholic clergy at that time was optional.
Des EssientesThreads: 11
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 Jun 29, 11, 00:28    #75
duanvindos:
Ancient Imperial Rome attacked southern Poland and annexed it to their colony of Pannonia.

Pannonia's territory was further South than Southern Poland consisting of areas that are in today's Hungary, Austria, the Balkans and Slovakia. Celts probably did live in what is today's Poland in ancient times but Imperial Rome never held sway there.
duanvindos:
cannabis found in these graves

duanvindos:
Sarmatian and Skythian cultures

See the fourth book of Herodotus for an affirmation of the Saka's love of marijuana.
BarneyThreads: 16
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 Jun 29, 11, 01:29    #76
duanvindos:
The evidence is strong that the ancient Celts were very much influenced by the Sarmatian and Skythian cultures, and by others similar to them.

No need to crow about it.
dofdanThreads: -
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 Aug 17, 11, 02:06    #77
Thousands of persons of polish ancestry have had their DNA analyzed through FTDNA. A small group of males from Poland centered near the Kielce area are showing Rb1 yDNA with an L47+ SNP. This is Celtic/German DNA. The age off the DNA shows that the latest common ancestor with celts/germans/scots etc was approx 1900 years ago. This eliminates the Scottish peddler theory for this group. The largest group of L47+ is presently Wales, Ireland, England and Scotland. As another point of interest the parent group of L47 is L48. This is also from the same celtic/german line but approx. 200 years older. Copernicus was tested as L48+. I don't know if L47 was tested. His father was from the Galacian area near the Check border.

It would be appreciated if anyone has any other information/ideas about why our group of old L47+ is from that area.

Dofdan


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