Documentary on foreign and local workers in a town in England.

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Edited by: SeanBM Mar 15, 10, 14:01 #1

It is a kind of social experiment.

To test if the town needs so many foreign workers, immigrant employees are temporarily removed from their jobs, and the work given to the local unemployed. Now the town's British workers have a chance to prove they can do it.

BBC

The Day the Immigrants Left, Part-1/6

I found this in a Daily Mail article and I am amazed at what they said about it

In the film, presented by Evan Davis, some of the featured locals from Wisbech, Cambridgeshire, complained they were routinely turned down for factory work as they were English, an assertion denied by one boss of a potato-packing factory who said: ‘Where British workers are, I don’t know, but they’re not applying for jobs.’

But when two of the participants, jobless Paul North and Terry Garner, did apply for jobs after a successful stint on the shop floor, they were told ‘no suitable vacancies were available’.

Daily Mail Scroll down.

The real reason I personally find this interesting is because I was a foreign immigrant and worked in Wisbeach in 1996. I took a few years off to travel between school and University and I worked in a few factories in Wisbech that summer to travel.

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Mar 15, 10, 14:14 #2

Although I find this show interesting, I think that it was set-up.
They claim that from hundreds of applicants they find the "most promising". But these people were bunch of loony losers underclass. I don't believe they represent an average British job-seeker.
I guarantee that in the average Polish town, you can find such a people as well. (If you look hard enough to find them)
Or this story when a guy on his first day work as a waiter has found himself as the only waiter in the whole restaurant. Staged - I'd say.
But funny.

ArienThreads: 6 Posts: 1,604 Joined: Oct 20, 08 ♂	Mar 15, 10, 14:21 #3
SeanBM: ''no suitable vacancies were available''. I feel sorry for these guys, because I know what it's like when you want to work in your own country, and you have to hear this a few hundred times. :(

enkiduThreads: 18 Posts: 978 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Mar 15, 10, 14:28 #4
Arien: I feel sorry for these guys, because I know what it's like when you want to work in your own country, and you have to hear this a few hundred times. Yeah, but you know - performance of these guys were as far from "successful" as it can be. More like an very successful disaster.

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Edited by: Arien Mar 15, 10, 14:38 #5

enkidu:

Staged - I'd say.

You don't know what you're talking about. The woman you've seen is crying because it's staged? Go wash your mouth please. I understand that you guys want jobs over there, but so do they. I've heard that the Polish refuse British and Irish workers quite often, so you have no right to call these people loony. Take that last guy for example. 26 years old, barely had any work in the last five years, says he wants to work and give it his all regardless of what job he has to do, but he doesn't seem to stand a chance anywhere. I'm basically in the same position.

enkidu:

But funny.

There's nothing funny about being made redundant, and it's not their fault either. You sound like someone's who should feel lucky he's never been in that position, but ofcourse it doesn't mean you're any better. Or smarter.

;)

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Mar 15, 10, 14:38 #6

enkidu:

Although I find this show interesting, I think that it was set-up.
They claim that from hundreds of applicants they find the "most promising". But these people were bunch of loony losers underclass. I don't believe they represent an average British job-seeker.

I totally agree!! i watched this and there is much more deserving people in england who could have done the job better than the people picked or the show...everything seemed to be a set up.

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Edited by: SeanBM Mar 15, 10, 14:44 #7

enkidu:

Although I find this show interesting, I think that it was set-up.
They claim that from hundreds of applicants they find the "most promising". But these people were bunch of loony losers underclass. I don't believe they represent an average British job-seeker.

I was amazed back in 1996 what a complete hole Wisbech was.
I got off the bus and there were a gang of kids, aged between 10 and 12 punching an old man in the face, I intervened.
But this was just typical of this town. In other words I certainly do not believe it was staged.

I would like to say now, that I had worked in another town in England the previous year, again to travel. And it was a delightful place, with genuine people. Unfortunately a few of the Brits that I worked with hated Irish and I had a struggle with them but apart from that it was a completely different experience. But there was less work there.

Arien:

I feel sorry for these guys, because I know what it's like when you want to work in your own country, and you have to hear this a few hundred times.

Watch the documentary, the Daily Mail are manipulating it, that is what I found amazing about it, the amazing conclusion they drew but I will say no more, each to their own conclusion.

enkidu:

More like an very successful disaster.

Two out of the three turned up half an hour late on the first day, the other one did not turn up at all! I don't think either of them could count at all.
The lack of education seemed to be the first big problem these local people face.
They only had to work two days, not much if you ask me.

Arien:

Take that last guy for example. 26 years old, barely had any work in the last five years, says he wants to work and give it his all regardless of what job he has to do, but he doesn't seem to stand a chance anywhere.

Did you watch the whole thing? It is in six parts.

ArienThreads: 6 Posts: 1,604 Joined: Oct 20, 08 ♂	Edited by: Arien Mar 15, 10, 14:48 #8
samnslon: I totally agree!! i watched this and there is much more deserving people in england who could have done the job better than the people picked or the show True. SeanBM: Did you watch the whole thing? It is in six parts. I know what you guys mean. No, I didn't. (Sorry!) I'm now watching the rest. I'll reply again later.. :)

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Mar 15, 10, 14:50 #9

Arien:

You don't know what you're talking about.

Arien come down, please. You misunderstood me.
What I meant is that this show was staged with the hidden agenda to show British job-seekers as a lazy, worthless scum.
I really don't understand why the BBC did it?

For instance:

Arien:

ake that last guy for example. 26 years old, barely had any work in the last five years, says he wants to work and give it his all regardless of what job he has to do, but he doesn't seem to stand a chance anywhere.

As I remember (we talking about this Emo - guy ?) he actually told that he doesn't feel much pressure to find a job. And he wont accept any job just because he is unemployed. He is waiting for something special.
I am sure that he was provoked to say this by the BBC team.

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Mar 15, 10, 15:00 #10

enkidu:

Arien come down, please. You misunderstood me.

I did.

enkidu:

What I meant is that this show was staged with the hidden agenda to show British job-seekers as a lazy, worthless scum.

You're right, but I obiously didn't gather that much from the first part.

enkidu:

I really don't understand why the BBC did it?

Probably so they can justify selling out their own, and betraying their own working class for a few lousy pounds. You're right, watching this makes me sick. Let that Evan Davis bring his camera, and put me against any of those guys..

:)

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Edited by: SeanBM Mar 15, 10, 15:04 #11

enkidu:

What I meant is that this show was staged with the hidden agenda to show British job-seekers as a lazy, worthless scum.
I really don't understand why the BBC did it?

I don't think that was the case, I do not think they picked people who would fail.
I do think that they picked the right town to fail but there are many factories in this area.
I got the job in London through an agency and was employed there the next day.
The same thing happened to me the year before in Ross-on-Wye (a different part of England) and it was a completely different experience (apart from some co-workers hating Irish).

Again I have to say the first and foremost problem the locals face is lack of education.

I would like to put education in to a global context and why i believe it is so important.
1% of people have a college education :

1 would have a college education

100 people a world portrait, I don't know how true this is but I am sure someone will point out the error of my ways if it isn't right.

Arien:

I'm now watching the rest. I'll reply again later..

That would be great, then we can discuss it better.

enkiduThreads: 18 Posts: 978 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Mar 15, 10, 15:10 #12
Arien: You're right, watching this makes me sick. It makes me sick as well. And I am Polish... Sad times, really.

convexThreads: 47 Posts: 7,189 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	Mar 15, 10, 15:11 #13
SeanBM: 100 people a world portrait, I don't know how true this is but I am sure someone will point out the error of my ways if it isn't right. Numbers look a bit off, but it's a neat concept.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,647 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Edited by: SeanBM Mar 15, 10, 15:14 #14
convex: Numbers look a bit off, but it's a neat concept. I was looking for more info on education in the world but it kept coming up with America. I just think that education is the way forward for America and Europe. It is what most people in the world do not have and we do. Here is an article by the BBC on the program Are jobless Brits scared by hard work?

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Mar 15, 10, 15:22 #15

SeanBM:

I was looking for more info on education in the world but it kept coming up with America.
I just think that education is the way forward for America and Europe.
It is what most people in the world do not have and we do.

It's the only way forward, working smarter and not harder. A global workforce isn't that complicated of a concept. If the work can be done somewhere else more efficiently, it will. We in the west have access to the best education systems in the world, some of the easiest access to capital in the world... no excuses.

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Mar 15, 10, 15:34 #16

SeanBM:

It is what most people in the world do not have and we do.

We have got an European-Style education. We think this is the only that matter. We don't consider other forms of education as a valid ones.

Of course - this works in both ways. I am sure that there are a lot of people on the World (lets say in the madras or convents schools) that consider our system of education as worthless an our graduates as an uneducated ignorants.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,647 Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂	Edited by: SeanBM Mar 15, 10, 15:36 #17
enkidu: We don't consider other forms of education as a valid ones. What are you talking about? enkidu: I am sure that there are a lot of people on the World (lets say in the madras or convents schools) that consider our system of education as worthless an our graduates as an uneducated ignorants. Again, what are you talking about? I do not understand you, please clarify.

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Edited by: Arien Mar 15, 10, 15:43 #18

enkidu:

It makes me sick as well. And I am Polish... Sad times, really.

I'm Dutch, and I would feel sick if Polish workers were depicted like this aswell. (Just so you know!)

SeanBM:

I just think that education is the way forward for America and Europe.

Sure, and how do you think guys like me can finance their study when they earn less than minimum wage?

convex:

We in the west have access to the best education systems in the world, some of the easiest access to capital in the world... no excuses.

I'm intelligent enough for an education, so how do you envision getting people like me to educate themselves? All this talk about responsibility and the will to work for it is fine with me, but please do explain to me how I'm supposed to pay for my education if I won't get any work because I'm supposedly too lazy. (Because a few people have ''proven'' this.)

SeanBM:

That would be great, then we can discuss it better.

What's your point Sean? I will simply tell you I've worked a lot harder than any of those foreigners I've seen in the video. (I've cut three tons of carrots once, and I can assure you that carrots are much and much tougher to cut.) Working shifts of twelve hours? How about working shifts of eighteen hours? (I've done that aswell, for less than minimum wage!) I know a lot of Dutch guys who'd be there an hour before work starts, just to familiarize themselves with the workplace and their tasks. (I'm ex-military, so don't tell me I don't have discipline.)

Education? I'm all ears, but everywhere I go I get none the wiser, and I certainly can't finance a study all by myself when I'm earning less than minimum wage sometimes! So yes, advice would be more than welcome!

:)

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Mar 15, 10, 15:46 #19

SeanBM:

Again, what are you talking about?
I do not understand you, please clarify.

I think in this statistics:
"82 would be able to read and write; 18 would not

1 would have a college education
1 would own a computer "

"Education" means "western-style education" only. It is not the only one that existed.
It like the Chinese would make the statistics which shows that majority of the world population don't use any cutlery, because the only valid utensils are these Chinese sticks.

ArienThreads: 6 Posts: 1,604 Joined: Oct 20, 08 ♂	Mar 15, 10, 15:49 #20
Watching videos like these really, really make me sick to my stomach. But please do tell. Enlighten me. (Apparantly I'm too stupid.) :)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 15, 10, 15:51 #21
I'm on part 3/6 now. I have time to finish all 6 parts before I leave for work. It makes you glad to have a job sometimes. Britain has enjoyed the benefits of immigration for some time so now it's time to take some of the drawbacks.

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Edited by: SeanBM Mar 15, 10, 15:54 #22

Arien:

Sure, and how do you think guys like me can finance their study when they earn less than minimum wage?

I have no idea what courses and education systems your Dutch government provide.
In Ireland I see no reason why anyone should not have had training at least, as the government will pay for your education and you get grants, not much money but enough.
And the older you get the easier it is.
I know quite a few people who have done and are doing this, they also find part time imployment if possible. I myself worked nights in McDonalds the first year of college and cleaned taxis for the other years and jobs were probably equally as scarce in Ireland at that time as they are now.

Arien:

What's your point Sean?

My point is that you started to answer this thread without knowing what you are talking about because you had not seen the whole documentary.

Arien:

I've worked a lot harder than any of those foreigners I've seen in the video. (I've cut three tons of carrots once, and I can assure you that carrots are much and much tougher to cut.) Working shifts of twelve hours? How about working shifts of eighteen hours?

As I have said I have worked in this town and other factories in England and other countries, if you want to measure who is the harder worker?

Arien:

I've done that aswell, for less than minimum wage!

I have reported one company for their illegal practices.

Arien:

I know a lot of Dutch guys who'd be there an hour before work starts, just to familiarize themselves with the workplace and their tasks. (I'm ex-military, so don't tell me I don't have discipline.)

Where did I say you didn't have disapline? where did I say anything about you?
You are taking this as if i am personally attacking you, I am not.

Arien:

Education? I'm all ears, but everywhere I go I get none the wiser, and I certainly can't finance a study all by myself when I'm earning less than minimum wage sometimes! So yes, advice would be more than welcome!

Read above, has the Dutch government no education or training programs for people exactly in your situation?

enkidu:

"Education" means "western-style education" only. It is not the only one that existed.

So show me another valid form of education, please.

Arien:

Watching videos like these really, really make me sick to my stomach. But please do tell. Enlighten me. (Apparantly I'm too stupid.)

Again taking this personally.
You are anything but stupid, we all know this.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Mar 15, 10, 16:05 #23
Wisbech, I remember my friend being back there in the late 90's. He was saying that there was an Indian place but it wouldn't have had all the foreigners. The job scene in the UK was pretty grim before 2004 anyhow. Some of the jobs on offer were a joke.

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Edited by: convex Mar 15, 10, 16:06 #24

Arien:

I'm intelligent enough for an education, so how do you envision getting people like me to educate themselves? All this talk about responsibility and the will to work for it is fine with me, but please do explain to me how I'm supposed to pay for my education if I won't get any work because I'm supposedly too lazy. (Because a few people have ''proven'' this.)

In the US, Germany, and Poland there are student loans available in addition to grants. If you want to go to school, there is no excuse not too.

Get rid of the idea that if you work hard, you'll make it. Start reminding people to work smart in order to make it.

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Mar 15, 10, 16:20 #25

SeanBM:

Again taking this personally.

Nevermind Sean. I'll admit I'm frustrated, because I'm talking to a wall most of the time, and maybe you can imagine I keep hearing it all the time? I'm just sick of these oneliners like: Be more competitive. It's your own responsibility. The ones who want to work will get it. (Etc!)

In the meanwhile, we're not getting anywhere, are we? In addition, videos like these are meant to portray unskilled people as worthless. (I'm sorry if I take that personally!) It's simple, if you keep pushing people aside because they're unskilled or made redundant, and you don't offer them any decent alternatives, then how are we supposed to improve our situation? How are we supposed to contribute?

SeanBM:

I have no idea what courses and education systems your Dutch government provide.

Well, you can tell me about Ireland or England? (Or Belgium for all I care!) I'm a citizen of the EU, so I might aswell work and study in England, Ireland or Belgium, since I'm perfectly legal to do so, and I don't think it's a complete mystery that I'm able to communicate. You don't have to answer all of my questions, and ofcourse I should also do some research for myself, but I would definitely welcome any helpful suggestions.

I'm supposed to pay for my own education in Holland, which I simply can't afford. So maybe I'll have to look elsewhere? I refuse to sit here any longer, I refuse to waste away like this, and I refuse to watch all kinds of people in Europe who simply decide about my fate for me.

SeanBM:

I have reported one company for their illegal practices.

I wish more people would. For what it's worth, you have my thanks, because it seems that too many people don't care anymore.

:)

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Edited by: aphrodisiac Mar 15, 10, 16:21 #26

SeanBM:

I know quite a few people who have done and are doing this, they also find part time imployment if possible.

I just finished my studies and it was the hardest thing to do: financially and in any other way to be honest. However, many of my friends and relatives were convinced that it was a piece of cake. In difficult times the only think that kept me going was the fact that I considered myself lucky to have such an opportunity, because millions of people around the world don't.
Arien, I would look into education opportunities across EU if I were you. Also, there are Erasmus EU funds, but I don't now the details, so YOU need to do the digging if you want it bad enough:). Good luck:)

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Mar 15, 10, 16:22 #27

And to clarify more on what I am talking about when I say education.
At least one of the two guys in the potato factory could not count.
He said he studied math with his 12 year old daughter at home.
In the job they didn't pack 12 bags to a crate instead they put 10.
When he was talking to the Portuguese guy he talked about 80 million British people going to Portugal where there are 30 million and what the Portuguese guy thought about that.
This the most fundamental education any employer would expect is basic math.

Seanus:

The job scene in the UK was pretty grim before 2004 anyhow. Some of the jobs on offer were a joke.

I have worked in various parts of England many times, I never had a problem finding work.

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Mar 15, 10, 16:25 #28

SeanBM:

enkidu:
"Education" means "western-style education" only. It is not the only one that existed.

So show me another valid form of education, please.

First from the top:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dars-e_Nizamiyyah

But we don't need to look so far away. Polish graduate from a 5-year Technikum is not considered a graduate in the UK, simply because this kind of education doesn't fit into the Anglo-American education system.
In the whole former Eastern-Block there are a lot of peoples who did spent considerable amount of years learning, who are not considered as "graduates" simply because their schools names were too exotic for the western likes. :)

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Edited by: Arien Mar 15, 10, 16:28 #29

convex:

In the US, Germany, and Poland there are student loans available in addition to grants. If you want to go to school, there is no excuse not too.

We have student loans in Holland aswell, but the tricky part is that you won't get a student loan if you're unqualified. They demand higher qualifications in order for you to attend college or university. (Which in itself wouldn't be a problem, if only you could afford the education!) Are you sure this will be different in America? Or anywhere else? If so, I'm all ears..

convex:

Get rid of the idea that if you work hard, you'll make it.

Don't worry, I got rid of that idea ages ago.

:)

aphrodisiac:

Arien, I would look into education opportunities across EU if I were you. Also, there are Erasmus EU funds, but I don't now the details, so YOU need to do the digging if you want it bad enough:).

I know I have to do the digging, and I've already done a lot of digging, but where to look abroad? I'm afraid Google just isn't always very helpful or informative when it comes to telephone numbers, additional information, official pages, etc.

aphrodisiac:

Good luck:)

Thanks, it seems I'm really going to need it!

:)

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Edited by: aphrodisiac Mar 15, 10, 16:32 #30

Arien:

They demand higher qualifications in order for you to attend college or university.

what do you mean by that?
I have a friend who had to go back to high school (do extra credits) because he wanted to finish university, he was born here and knew that there was something lucking, so he went back, got accepted and finished university - he was way passed 30. it is never to late to go back to school, well unless you are on a death bed:)

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