Are English racists?

Ashleys mindThreads: 7 Posts: 1,346 Joined: Nov 2, 10 ♀	Jan 21, 11, 02:43 #211
PennBoy: He wouldn't dare How 'bout Dumb Yank!? ;)

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Jan 21, 11, 03:08 #212
Ashleys mind: How 'bout Dumb Yank!? ;) IN Philadelphia people get shot for that

Pinching PeteThreads: 1 Posts: 1,111 Joined: Feb 23, 08 ♂	Jan 21, 11, 03:19 #213
LOL.. the British fought the Boer Wars literally to rip them off of their diamonds.

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Jan 21, 11, 03:32 #214
Pinching Pete: the British fought the Boer Wars literally to rip them off of their diamonds. Gold mate,get the mineral right atleast if your having a pop :)

Ashleys mindThreads: 7 Posts: 1,346 Joined: Nov 2, 10 ♀	Jan 21, 11, 03:41 #215
PennBoy: IN Philadelphia people get shot for that In America people get shot for all sorts... :S

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Jan 21, 11, 03:44 #216
Ashleys mind: In America people get shot for all sorts... :S Cowboys and Gangsters

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Jan 21, 11, 03:49 #217

Ashleys mind:

I'm sure there's a certain amount of affection in your words when you are screaming Kurwa f*cking stupid Pole!

PennBoy:

He wouldn't dare

I think I covered this already when I admited the windows are always up and my shouting is in my indoors voice :)
To be honest,it normally starts with(phonetic polish,sorry,come on,im dyslexic in english,gis a break ) "Cholera,Dura Polak chlopsy!You're not in bloody warsawa teraz,knut" of course for ladies I refrain a little," Cholera pienkna Polska,be a shame to squish you under my samochodz!"
I never claimed fluency :)
I think the point being most of these real rascists in these parts wouldnt have a clue if I said "Tatkalem injilieesy,mumkin la,mumkin ila?",real race haters dont tend to bother with their hate objects language.....but we can all be lazy and reactionary and paint with a wide brush,which makes baiting peeps like pete hard to do with out lots of his countrymen not realising its ironic intent.

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Jan 21, 11, 03:51 #218

isthatu2:

I think I covered this already when I admited the windows are always up and my shouting is in my indoors voice :)
To be honest,it normally starts with(phonetic polish,sorry,come on,im dyslexic in english,gis a break ) "Cholera,Dura Polak chlopsy!You're not in bloody warsawa teraz,knut" of course for ladies I refrain a little," Cholera pienkna Polska,be a shame to squish you under my samochodz!"
I never claimed fluency :)
I think the point being most of these real rascists in these parts wouldnt have a clue if I said "Tatkalem injilieesy,mumkin la,mumkin ila?",real race haters dont tend to bother with their hate objects language.....but we can all be lazy and reactionary and paint with a wide brush,which makes baiting peeps like pete hard to do with out lots of his countrymen not realising its ironic intent.

Czech film

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Edited by: isthatu2 Jan 21, 11, 03:53 #219
Anyway,heres a little present from "rascist england" (via imperialist yankee capitalist running dogs of the former indian lands of america) ;) PennBoy: Czech film erm, Little Otik. Bit weird but worth a watch,not for those squeemish about fish/eels.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Jan 21, 11, 04:02 #220
isthatu2: erm, Little Otik Speaking of Czech films, does anyone know the name of a movie based on the book "Someone Named Eva" about a Czech girl taken for germanization in WWII, saw it once but can't find it.

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Jan 21, 11, 04:16 #221
There seems to be talk of a new movie based on this book coming out soon.....meanwhile,with the joys of you tubes search randomness always a laugh,though maybe better not link to the 1939 Poland clip :)

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Edited by: PennBoy Jan 21, 11, 04:38 #222
I found it i was wrong not about that book per say but similar, Cuckoo in a Dark Forest/Kukułka w ciemnym lesie a Czechoslovakian /Polish film 1986 http://www.exsite.pl/filmy_video_movies/127275-kukuika-w-ciemnym-lesie -kukaika-v-temnjm-lese.html

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Jan 21, 11, 10:25 #223
Ashleys mind: You must be British? I think he might be Irish actually. Not sure.

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Edited by: Ashleys mind Jan 22, 11, 01:41 #224

Just a point about comparing Colonialists...

Yeah I mean is there much point comparing sh1t with sh1t ...? It's not as if any of these imperialists had limits to their dictatorial rule or gave up sovereignty without a harrowing display of suppression and violence...

Who is anyone to judge and compare...? Are you basing comparisons on dominion? Number of wars? Number of lives expended? Or laws designed to protect the people?? I imagine the agenda was pretty clear in all cases and that was to rule, conquer and to take no prisoners.... I mean they were all in competition with each other to a large extent anyway...

Or perhaps we can look solely at how willing these countries were to pull out peacably; apologise, and pay the bill...? Encouraging self determination after all the freedoms they withdrew from the citizenry...

Colonised countries were no more than capital blocks containing *peasants* (pawns) who were frequently enslaved, murdered, imprisoned or otherwise got rid of (and frequently baptised to add insult to injury!) in the quest for power and prosperity back home...

Ask an Algerian what he thinks of French colonial rule, or a Venezualen to recount the deeds of Simon Bolivar against the Spanish... and you'll see that the story is rather more tainted and personal to those whom colonisation effected...

So I think all in all *pretty f*cked up* sums up the whole damn lot of them...
And I guess there are numerous countries around the world still recovering from this process...

Of course there are benefits to being colonised as well, and I am not the one to say that there haven't been some positive *legacies* from European occupation around the world, but comparing the humaneness and suffering between parallel dictatorial rulers seems a bit mediocre...

Am I in the right thread...?

Anyways, off to the beach! ;P

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Jan 22, 11, 03:47 #225

Teffle:

I think he might be Irish actually. Not sure.

only by(half) blood,scots born,raised in England,travelled a lot as a kid....

Ashleys mind:

but comparing the humaneness and suffering between parallel dictatorial rulers seems a bit mediocre...

Am I in the right thread...?

In the main,yes,but there were huge differences between the motivations and the methods of different countries. Some went purely as armed conquorers determined to crush all local culture and tradition if not simply wipe out or enslave the native population.
While the other sort was often motivated by a combination of self interest,Paternalisim and Christian fundamentalism(come on,call missioneries anything but is a joke no matter what religion they are prostelizing),and even in the case of those with a determination to bring Christian values to the heathens(what else is say bringing democracy to the middle east these days if not one culture trying to impose their "better" culture on others?) this dint mean mass forced conversions of anyone. In india for instance beyond cracking down on the more extreme practises of hinduism such as the widow throwing herself on her husbands funeral pyre the British empire didnt try to force christianity on anyone,one breif period when they got close helped bring the 1858 Mutiny....didnt try again,the French to didnt try and convert anyone,but say the spannish and portugese enforced mass conversions on natives and slaughtered those who refused and lets not start on the Germans and Belgians......
So yes,in the 21st century we can look back and smugly say,all empires were bad,but that doesnt mean we still shouldnt strive to define the specific badness and goodness of those emires,like you say ash, countries like India most certainly benifit these days in having been an active part of a technically advanced empire,from infrastructure, habious corpus style law ,educational establishments to language. Even if it only meant India became call center central because of english thats a plus.

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Jan 22, 11, 08:25 #226

Ashleys mind:

Ask an Algerian what he thinks of French colonial rule,

Go back to before French rule and ask people living in coastal villages of France, southern Ireland and Southern England what their opinion was of the Barbary slave trade?
This was the cause of the wars that led to Algeria coming under French rule.
read a book called 'White Gold' by Giles Milton
unfortunately Barlow's journals are not in print, but he refers to teh dangers of being captured for the Barbary slave trade in his journal

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	Jan 22, 11, 08:29 #227
wonders what the planet would be like if countries never colonized

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Jan 22, 11, 10:26 #228

Daisy:

Go back to before French rule and ask people living in coastal villages of France, southern Ireland and Southern England what their opinion was of the Barbary slave trade? This was the cause of the wars that led to Algeria coming under French rule.read a book called 'White Gold' by Giles Miltonunfortunately Barlow's journals are not in print, but he refers to teh dangers of being captured for the Barbary slave trade in his journal

Bugeaud, the name is quite forgettable but who's a general from Limoges. The French conqueror Algiers anyway in 1830 is a political diversion. Gradually they expand their control over Algeria. Algeria becomes a colony. It becomes an integral point of view--from the point of view of the French, in a different way than Tunisia, and Vietnam, or Morocco, and other places of France, even though it's not part of metropolitan France.

Bugeaud and his successors kill about 850,000 people during the campaign, very unequal battles. Bugeaud comes up with the idea of simply putting men, women, and children into these huge caves and caverns, and then simply throwing bombs in and so they all die. He did that over and over again.

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Edited by: SeanBM Jan 22, 11, 10:40 #229

Daisy:

Go back to before French rule and ask people living in coastal villages of France, southern Ireland and Southern England what their opinion was of the Barbary slave trade?

On the pretext of a slight to their consul, the French invaded and captured Algiers in 1830.[32] The conquest of Algeria by the French was long and resulted in considerable bloodshed. A combination of violence and disease epidemics caused the indigenous Algerian population to decline by nearly one-third

I would think that at least one third of the Algerian population was much happier, well at least alive, before the French 30 year invasion.
Although the European and American wars against the 'Algerian' pirates put an end to it.

And as for Ireland, it was already colonised by Britain before, during and after the Barbary slave trade, double trouble.

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Jan 23, 11, 00:06 #230

PlasticPole:

wonders what the planet would be like if countries never colonized

You'd lose the "Plastic" part of your screen name. :)
England was once a colony of Denmark,after that it was a colony of the Norman Dukes.
The US was once the 13 colonies before its expansion.
I still say there is a big difference between the motives and tactics used by different countries at different times,to just lump all empires and colonials as the same "evil" mass is lazy and misses to many lessons for the future.
Most at heart were financial adventures, if a colony didnt make a profit it failed but you then have to look at when colonies expand into Imperial territories,how was this achieved,through force of arms and slaughter or through buying off local proxy rulers,puppets maybe but often puppets with a considerable amount of autonamy.
Its maybe not best to point out to that the "Protestent" empires were generally far more culturaly softly softly and live and let live(with the implicit threat of gunboats and soldiers) and tended not to go for slaughter for slaughters sake or mass conversion of local people. Where as the "Catholic" empires tended to be the polar opposite. South America,how else did that become a Catholic continent? Compare to India or Former Dutch east indies,alll the pre colonial religions are flourishing and the only christian 5 also tends to pre date colonialisation.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	Edited by: PlasticPole Jan 23, 11, 02:39 #231
isthatu2: You'd lose the "Plastic" part of your screen name. :) Colonizing and just "going" are two different things. Perhaps people would still move from country to country, but not in a manifest destiny "Me and my people will own it completely" sorta way. We wouldn't have the ugliness of colonization hanging over our heads.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Edited by: Teffle Jan 23, 11, 03:03 #232
Hmmm...

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Jan 23, 11, 03:13 #233

PlasticPole:

We wouldn't have the ugliness of colonization hanging over our heads.

Agreed,but as far as Im concerned it doesnt hang over my head,I was born in the mid 1970s not the 18 or 1770s :)
It is interesting though,Imagine if the Vikings had stayed in North America....or that columbas et al never went. Would there today,or at least a few years ago,still be plains indians(actually,probs no as we brought the Horse..) or Anasazi type tribes in north America just as there are still a few untouched tribes in South America? Its a strech of the imagination that no one after columbas would bother,but you get where Im coming from,who knows,the world is what it is,its built on the past good or bad or both,its what we learn and take into the future that counts I suppose.
Tefle
Lol," I have a Flag" Love this guy, " I could kill you with this tray...."

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Jan 23, 11, 03:35 #234
isthatu2: Imagine if the Vikings had stayed in North America Ever been to Minnesota? It's like they never left...ooo yah, ain't that right Mrs Brannstrom?

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	Jan 23, 11, 03:37 #235
If the north American continent weren't so colonized, the Native Americans would have kept their lifestyle longer. Let's say Europeans came and looked around, made friends and a few of them settle. Eventually, like everyplace else on earth, nearly, the Native Americans would have modernized and used the technology Europeans invented.

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Jan 23, 11, 03:47 #236

Yes,but even that works both ways,without "us" meeting the indians would so many people be dying of lung cancer? Or,would the irish ever have anything to eat?
It was sort of what happened,at first,in the states you had isolated settlers opening up little trading posts and eventually expanding from there till come early 18 hundreds "you" are plowing through the indians lands putting them in reservations,wiping out whole tribes and trying to christianise.
same in the origional india,little european trading posts,expansion then,like in 18th century US(and pre US) many alliances were made with local peoples. But in india,in general the expansion left the vast mass of the local people no better or worse off than before.

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Jan 23, 11, 03:54 #237

isthatu2:

It was sort of what happened,at first,in the states you had isolated settlers opening up little trading posts and eventually expanding from there till come early 18 hundreds "you" are plowing through the indians lands putting them in reservations,wiping out whole tribes and trying to christianise.

If it would have stayed isolated settlers, the Natives would have done what the Americans did later, industrialize. They would have gotten more money out of the deal, but there's no doubt in my mind it would have happened.
Natives were good at trading when the Europeans got here, so it's not like they weren't clueless about capitalism.

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