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Ive been in the UK for 6 days to relocate and im going back to Poland.

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Aug 20, 10, 09:38 #181

Bolle:

From what i can see here, many british expats in poland teach english or run some shady internet business.

Based on posts here that sounds about right.

Bolle:

If you people (those complaining about the UK) had degrees/qualifications in in-demand jobs (science, engineering, medicine etc.), you wouldn't have any problems readjusting.

Its not all about the money, so if expats could return to the UK and walk into £60k a year jobs that would solve all their issues? is that what youre suggesting?

Always about the money with most people...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 20, 10, 10:19 #182
He didn't mention money so directly, WB. He was just talking about getting into work with the right qualifications.

SkrymczThreads: - Posts: 37 Joined: May 18, 10 ♂	Aug 20, 10, 11:40 #183
Teaching? Please please tell me that none of the ignorant racist morons here on this forum who wouldn't be able to find a proper job in any country (in other words most of you) - please please tell me that none of you are involved with education. If so I truly despair.

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,019 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	Aug 20, 10, 12:27 #184
Skrymcz: Teaching? Please please tell me that none of the ignorant racist morons here on this forum who wouldn't be able to find a proper job in any country (in other words most of you) - please please tell me that none of you are involved with education. If so I truly despair. agree 100 %

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 20, 10, 14:10 #185
I didn't quite get the point, Skrymcz. What were you trying to say, that teachers are racist?

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,019 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	Aug 20, 10, 14:36 #186
I think she/he hopes they are not in education..

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Aug 20, 10, 14:40 #187

Aha, thanks. Well, I'm in that business but am not racist. I made the point on the other thread that I really respect the achievements of many black folk. I certainly wouldn't make a success of myself in any medical job. I'm teaching a to-be vet and the terminology is so esoteric and tough. One would wonder who the teacher was if we were being observed. I consider myself to be pretty well read and have a massive vocab but I still come up well short in that sphere.

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Edited by: SzwedwPolsce Aug 20, 10, 15:13 #188

When we talk about relocating and racism, we must know what we are talking about.

I'm trying my best not to be a racist.

But to be honest, I think many (not all) immigrants are more racist than native people (in my country; Sweden).

What does 'racist' actually mean? It's an interesting question.

Is it racist to say that immigrants from outside Europe commit more crimes than native Europeans?
Is it racist to say it if you can prove it with statistics?

Is it racist when immigrants attack (verbally/physically) people who are a minority?
Is it racist when immigrants attack (verbally/physically) people who are not a minority?

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Aug 20, 10, 15:24 #189

Seanus:

I consider myself to be pretty well read and have a massive vocab but I still come up well short in that sphere.

Seanus, there's actually a good point here to be made - that just because you can teach English doesn't mean that you can actually adequately teach the vocabulary at all. There's a guy here who makes a killing as a medical English teacher - I'd like to get involved (who wouldn't for 120PLN/hour?), but when I look at the textbooks and terminology, I don't have a clue!

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 20, 10, 15:27 #190
Well, if he knows his stuff then he can command that kind of sum. Me? I don't so I improvise and look at the context. EAP or ESP would involve more preparation on my part. I don't like taking money like candy from a baby.

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 56 Posts: 5,267 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	Aug 21, 10, 11:19 #191
Seanus: He didn't mention money so directly, WB. He was just talking about getting into work with the right qualifications. Right qualifications for a high paid career, its pretty clear really. Whats wrong with a career as a constructor with relevant qualifications? brick layer, painter / decorator etc.. Always about the money.....

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Aug 21, 10, 12:37 #192

For some, the right qualifications can just be to get a foot in the door in modern organisations. No guarantees!

I hear what you are saying, though. If your character is suited to being one of those jobs you mentioned, why not do it? Where would we be without those people (scaffies/rubbish collectors too)? I also dislike those who turn their noses up. Some are wired to be doctors and some are wired to be manual labourers. Each gives sth to society. Besides, when was the last time you heard a manual labourer take a bribe? ;)

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Aug 21, 10, 13:20 #193

Seanus:

I also dislike those who turn their noses up. Some are wired to be doctors and some are wired to be manual labourers. Each gives sth to society. Besides, when was the last time you heard a manual labourer take a bribe? ;)

Our society has been in a race to the bottom for a long, long time. There are plenty of people that would rather save up for a week to pay for a half assed job, then to save up for two weeks for quality work, whatever the field. I pay the lady that cleans my house 100zl for about 3 hours of work. She does an awesome job, and I am happy with it. It's apparently good money for her, and a good value for me. I could get it much cheaper, but why? Good work ethic + competency should always equal decent pay.

Now, regarding manual laborers taking bribes, that's a good reflection on the available skill pool for a certain job. If I can do it after watching a video on youtube, I can trade my time and get it done. The investment of time to learn law or medicine might is a bit higher. There is a huge difference between learning how to lay a slab, and making the connections needed to buy the piece of land...

If you have a large availability of a certain resource, the price drops for that resource. Demand for quality is usually trumped by cost of the resource, direct byproduct of consumerism on every level.

If people were honest, we'd talk about this directly and openly. It's a system, it's not even that difficult to understand.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 21, 10, 13:26 #194
Ah, but it's back to the contacts thing and opportunity. I invested 5 years in learning Law, did it to a high level but work is work and study is study. WB likely hit a brick wall and realised that securing positions is just not easy in the rat race.

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Aug 21, 10, 13:33 #195

Seanus:

Ah, but it's back to the contacts thing and opportunity

Contacts are made, opportunities are identified. If don't teach people from a young age how to see and use opportunities at a young age, they'll be fairly lost. There seems to be a lot of idealist sugarcoating that goes on in schools which really hurts the people going to them. They never really learn about the structure that they're getting into, much less the skills that they need to function within it without struggling.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 21, 10, 13:49 #196
Exactly! They will do their job by teaching what they have to teach but then put you in the uncapable hands of so-called Career Advisory services. Sorry, but I don't need some dumb chumps telling me who I am and what I can do in this world. You need to have your own vision and make things happen off your own bat. That's what I've learned.

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Aug 30, 10, 08:56 #197

Wroclaw Boy:

What can i say the UK is not what it used to be, it is the same only a lot, lot worse. Theres no work, nobody has any money, everybody ive spoken to has said the same. Its all doom and gloom, i know ive complained a lot about Poland over the past few years but jeeze its better there than here IMO.

Just cant believe how bad this country (UK) is, foreigners everywhere and im not talking Poles and the scum society. Atleast Polish poor people have manners.

After four and a half years in Poland i feel more at home there than here.

Don't get too downhearted!
I usually felt like this whenever I returned to the UK during my travelling days 20-25 years ago. Some of the attitudes in the UK stink,but for every depressing new town full of fat,rude,lazy trash there is another town of people with decent traditional manners and self-respect.I just spent a few days in Devon/Dorset and it was like being in a different country - healthy, easy going people etc. Doom and gloom is nothing new and all part of the typical whinging British outlook and unfortunately the past few years of easy credit and consumerism have made even the most unqualified,unskilled people expect a celebrity lifestyle.The economic downturn will hopefully change attitudes.
Personally I feel Britain will be a better nation in 5 years time than it has been recently.

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Aug 30, 10, 09:18 #198

delphiandomine

delphiandomine:

Unlikely. It'll take a long time until people can look at her critically, but if it wasn't for her tough, uncompromising stance in general - it would seem unlikely that the UK would ever have successfully transitioned from a socialist dump into a modern market economy. Look at how dreadfully poor the UK was in 1979, then compare it to 1997 onwards. There's just no comparison.

I also totally agree with this.There are some crappy attitudes now but things were far worse back then.Power cuts and piles of rubbish/unburied corpses due to endless strikes,street thuggery which was reported in less detail than today.

dnzThreads: 25 Posts: 806 Joined: Dec 2, 07 ♂	Aug 30, 10, 11:20 #199
I feel the same about the UK went back for 2 weeks before coming to Oz and we got so fed up with it we went to Turkey for a week. Australia just seems like the UK was as i remember it minus the scum

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 30, 10, 11:41 #200
Try not to look too carefully. When I go back to Scotland, I'm there for my family, the memories and the infinitely wider range of food/drink there. Whatever goes on around me, goes on around me.

TrevekThreads: 30 Posts: 2,088 Joined: May 21, 08 ♂	Aug 30, 10, 12:23 #201
I was pleasantly surprised last trip to Shropshire. The pubs have improved a lot, meal sizes are bigger and beer is reasonably cheap, service is good.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Aug 30, 10, 12:36 #202
That really makes a difference in Britain as we have often valued our pub lunch culture. People should not be priced out. That's one thing I really miss about Scotland, the pub lunches. I guess that prices have soared which places me in a decent position as I only have 1 a year given my current status. Scampi would be nice :)

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Aug 30, 10, 12:44 #203

Seanus:

That really makes a difference in Britain as we have often valued our pub lunch culture. People should not be priced out. That's one thing I really miss about Scotland, the pub lunches. I guess that prices have soared which places me in a decent position as I only have 1 a year given my current status. Scampi would be nice

I think it is due to the amount of pubs closing in the last few years. many pubs have had to change drastically to survive, becoming more meal and family orientated.

VincentThreads: 15 Posts: 1,606 Joined: Sep 9, 07 ♂ [Moderator]	Aug 30, 10, 12:55 #204
Trevek: many pubs have had to change drastically to survive, becoming more meal and family orientated. You're quite right, I read in a paper the other day that on average, pubs now make more profit selling food than they do selling drinks.

Wroclaw BoyThreads: 56 Posts: 5,267 Joined: Jul 3, 09 MEMBER ♂	Sep 2, 10, 09:26 #205
Vincent: You're quite right, I read in a paper the other day that on average, pubs now make more profit selling food than they do selling drinks. yes but mainly the large corporate companies that have a strangle hold on the traditional private pub owners, they just cant compete with those.

TrevekThreads: 30 Posts: 2,088 Joined: May 21, 08 ♂	Sep 2, 10, 11:02 #206
Wroclaw Boy: yes but mainly the large corporate companies that have a strangle hold on the traditional private pub owners, they just cant compete with those. I believe that was why a number of pubs were closing, because the breweries took an executive decision to cut loses. A number of the pubs I came across were, I believe, free houses (looking at the amount of different ales they stocked).

VincentThreads: 15 Posts: 1,606 Joined: Sep 9, 07 ♂ [Moderator]	Sep 2, 10, 15:32 #207
There's no doubt that the non smoking ban and cheap supermarket drinks has contributed to many pubs losing trade as well. Some have shot themselves in the foot by being greedy. A bottle of larger that costs 99p in ASDA could cost £3.50 in a pub, especially "downtown"

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Sep 2, 10, 17:54 #208

Bolle:

BUT the real reason is that they can't find decent work!

I'd say decent work at a decent price. In Poland a Native Speaker is something prestigious, in a way. In UK, they are often just another English speaker with a CELTA. Summer work in places like Paignton earned me a lower hourly rate than in provincial Poland.

Bolle:

the other is lack of a relevant education. A degree in english lit (or some other useless program) and a celta certificate + a few years of teaching grammar isn't going to get you far in today's competitive world (outside of the esl market).

This depends. Another problem is that unless you are somewhere like the south-east, where there are a lot of schools, language schools aren't THAT common in UK. I mean, if I go into a small town in Poland i can usually find one or two schools. In UK it might be impossible to find any. Even those that are large enough to take new staff probably deal mainly with summer work, so the jobs aren't always there. Of course, it doesn't help when whatever experience and quals you have as an EFL teacher are so lowly regarded by 'real' teachers that you then have to do a 'real teacher's' course to get work in the state school sector.

Bolle:

If you people (those complaining about the UK) had degrees/qualifications in in-demand jobs (science, engineering, medicine etc.), you wouldn't have any problems readjusting.

Not necessarily. A few years ago there were very few good engineering jobs in UK and the amount of engineering studes was going down. Some couldn't even get decent practical work as degree students. Likewise, many medical professionals, especially nurses, have left UK to go abroad to get better paid jobs with better conditions.

As for the type of degree you have guaranteeing anything, I did my CELTA with an English engineer in Warsaw. He'd been offered a job in Poland, come over and moved his life here... then the firm went bust, leaving him high and dry, with a flat, girlfriend and other expenses. Not speaking Polish he had to find another way to make money... teaching English.

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Sep 3, 10, 14:04 #209

Wroclaw Boy:

The UK chopped my child benefit, ive paid taxes here my entire life even since ive lived in Poland, i always had a UK LTD company

Whilst cuing in the bank today in Poland my wife and i got chatting to the couple behind as my baby was smiling at them, the conversation turned inevitably to children. They said "ohh were not planning any children yet, were waiting to go to England to have our baby for the benefit system, our (Polish obviously) sister had a child in England and she now lives in Poland and receives £80 per month child benefit". They receive child benefit for 16 years that's approx £16,650.00 in benefit pretty much for free.

Back to one of my rants about the UK, i as a British national have worked in England and paid taxes my entire life with a Polish wife who worked in England for five years are not entitled to child benefit.

Basically: Poles live in England for a year obtain a national insurance number pay taxes have a baby then go back to Poland and receive £20 per week for 16 years, whilst im not entitle.

Go figure....

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Sep 3, 10, 14:08 #210

Wroclaw Boy:

Basically: Poles live in England for a year obtain a national insurance number pay taxes have a baby then go back to Poland and receive £20 per week for 16 years, whilst im not entitle.

And that's all because successive governments have done sweet FA about actually linking child benefit to some sort of regular residency test. You'd think that if the national insurance number isn't being used, child benefit would be cut immediately!

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