Missing polish woman found murdered in Chesterton, UK

Captain ScarletThreads: 4 Posts: 44 Joined: Aug 31, 08 ♂	Jun 19, 10, 20:40 #1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/coventry_and_warwickshire/10357329. stm A 25-year-old Polish man has appeared in court charged with murdering a mother who was reported missing earlier this month. Rip

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Jun 20, 10, 05:17 #2
but i there doesn't seem to be any evidence linking the man to this woman.. at least it's not stated in the article.. hmm

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Jun 20, 10, 05:41 #3
scottie1113: scottie1113 did you have a point? this thread is well within the means of this area.. polonia UK.. this happened in UK and involves polonia.. you can't be that slow, can you?

scottie1113Threads: 11 Posts: 873 Joined: Mar 13, 07 ♂	Jun 20, 10, 06:35 #4
Obviously I am. So please explain to me why this thread was originated.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Jun 20, 10, 06:48 #5
re-read my last post mr. dolt

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06 ♀	Jun 20, 10, 06:50 #6
plk123: but i there doesn't seem to be any evidence linking the man to this woman. I seen that too, so how can they even keep him in custody if he didnt say he did it, only that that are accusing him, unless he confessed to something they forgot to write in the news.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Jun 20, 10, 06:54 #7
not sure if one is innocent until found guilty in uk.. in many eu countries one is guilty until they can prove their innocence..

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06 ♀	Jun 20, 10, 07:02 #8
plk123: not sure if one is innocent until found guilty in uk.. what do they have to find him guilty of though? there isnt really much to the story, maybe they dont release all the information in the UK ? the story itself doesnt sound right.. they cant hold him for doing nothing unless they are interrogating him and that shouldnt be news until he confesses

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Edited by: plk123 Jun 20, 10, 07:06 #9
Patrycja19: what do they have to find him guilty of though? they don't have to find him guilty, just accuse him of murder, in this case.. he has to prove his innocence.. but that is a MAYBE as i don't know how the justice system work in the UK.. that is how it works in PL and other european countries, however.

♀

Jun 20, 10, 07:19 #10

plk123:

just accuse him of murder, in this case.. he has to prove his innocence.

this scares me, cause if this is true, then anyone can be picked out of a crowd, sort
of like the salem witch hunt, they call out the name and that was it for them..

so what if this guy is her boyfriend, he just dropped her off , someone was watching
and went right behind him and murdered her, meanwhile this guys walking home
or driving home unaware that his girl is in trouble and they accuse him, so this senario
can happen and how would someone prove innocence with the circumstance's
as they are where he couldnt prove he just dropped her off and thats it because he
was with her..

hmmmm food for thought.. I hope this isnt the case.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Jun 20, 10, 08:42 #11
Patrycja19: this scares me, cause if this is true, then anyone can be picked out of a crowd, sort of like the salem witch hunt, they call out the name and that was it for them.. yuppers.. but normally the arrest happens because the authorities have "good" reason for it.. but yes, scary and i believe it can be kind of easy to make a mistake..

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08 ♂	Jun 20, 10, 16:01 #12
scottie1113: Is there a point to this thread? I sure don't see one. One way or another quite a few Polish people visiting/living in the UK seem to end up dead, so I would have thought that was worthy of discussion.

♂

Jun 20, 10, 17:59 #13

Patrycja19:

this scares me, cause if this is true, then anyone can be picked out of a crowd, sort
of like the salem witch hunt, they call out the name and that was it for them..

so what if this guy is her boyfriend, he just dropped her off , someone was watching
and went right behind him and murdered her, meanwhile this guys walking home
or driving home unaware that his girl is in trouble and they accuse him, so this senario
can happen and how would someone prove innocence with the circumstance's
as they are where he couldnt prove he just dropped her off and thats it because he
was with her..

hmmmm food for thought.. I hope this isnt the case.

It gets even worse. The UK has some sort of deal with the U.S which means that anyone can be arrested without a charge or evidence, and can be extradited to a U.S prison, without charge or evidence.

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Jun 20, 10, 18:09 #14

plk123:

not sure if one is innocent until found guilty in uk.

That's the case.

The person in the dock is innocent until the prosecution provides sufficient evidence for the defendant to be found guilty. To find someone guilty the evidence must show that they are guilty beyond reasonable doubt, if there is not enough evidence to do that then the defendant should be found not guilty. Or I think in Scotland the case can be found 'not proven' as well.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂	Jun 20, 10, 19:16 #15
PolskaDoll: The person in the dock is innocent until the prosecution provides sufficient evidence for the defendant to be found guilty. Clearly, it is an inefficient and burdensome system. The communists had a much better system - give us a person and we'll find an appropriate paragraph that fits perfectly. Then it was just a formality. How backward the British system can be, with wigs and all.

♀

Edited by: Patrycja19 Jun 21, 10, 06:54 #16

1jola:

How backward the British system can be,

agree, how can they even hold him without evidence and it didnt state any in the
article, so did they just pick him at random, or was he the last person to see her
alive?

Matowy:

It gets even worse. The UK has some sort of deal with the U.S which means that anyone can be arrested without a charge or evidence, and can be extradited to a U.S prison, without charge or evidence.

ha ha funny.

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂	Jun 21, 10, 10:20 #17
Patrycja19: without evidence How do you know that? If they arrested him, surely there must be some link between him and the victim. They're not just go arrest ppl ad random, you know. The article doesn't mention any evidence indeed, but it also doesn't mention that they DON'T have evidence. So we don't know. >^..^< M-G (haec hactenus)

PolskaDollThreads: 44 Posts: 4,134 Joined: Jun 15, 07 ♀	Jun 21, 10, 12:32 #18
Patrycja19: agree, how can they even hold him without evidence They've arrested and charged him and remanded him in custody until his court appearance which means they've enough evidence to go to court. So they must have had evidence enough to pick him up too.

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06 ♀	Jun 22, 10, 05:20 #19
MareGaea: but it also doesn't mention that they DON'T have evidence. So we don't know. true, cant argue that, I just find it strange that they would even publish that without saying they had found something.. like he was wearing clothing with her blood on it, dna tests? he was with her last, perhaps he is ex boyfriend, something to that nature.

PolskaDollThreads: 44 Posts: 4,134 Joined: Jun 15, 07 ♀	Jun 22, 10, 05:26 #20
Why on Earth would they publish the evidence they had to the general public?

♀

Edited by: Amathyst Jun 22, 10, 10:50 #21

plk123:

they don't have to find him guilty, just accuse him of murder, in this case.. he has to prove his innocence.. but that is a MAYBE as i don't know how the justice system work in the UK.. that is how it works in PL and other european countries, however.

We most certainly do not work that way - a man has to be proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt in the UK.

plk123:

not sure if one is innocent until found guilty in uk

innocent until proven otherwise, but we are all aware that if evidence is strong enough, they can remand him until a trial date has been set, if they deem him to be a danger to society (murderers usually are :D )

BTW England isnt some backwater, they must have something on him to have warranted keeping him in for questioning.

1jola:

Clearly, it is an inefficient and burdensome system.

Clearly our system isnt the one that's backwards - rather than shoot first and ask questions later - we prefer a civilised approach.

1jola:

How backward the British system can be, with wigs and all.

LOL..Is that the best you can do? Maybe you lot should stop exporting your murderers, thieves and rapists and we wouldn't have to use our "backwards" British system on them which allows them free legal aid, translators and if they are guilty, food and lodgings for a few years with the option to gain a degree!

♂

Jun 22, 10, 15:55 #22

Ofcourse the Polish system is perfect , they even let criminals flee the country .

Since Poland joined the EU in 2004, hundreds who were facing court hearings have fled to disappear among Britain's huge community of around 600,000 Poles.
In 2007, the Met's Extradition Unit was asked to trace 257 Polish suspects. A total of 135 were sent home on commercial flights - at a cost to the Met of £300,000.
The huge cost led to a Polish military plane being used instead. At first the flights were monthly, but this has now become a fortnightly, or in 'peak periods' weekly, flight.
The number of criminals extradited from Britain to Poland is expected to treble under a new European police forces information sharing-scheme that is estimated will cost Britain an extra £17million in administration fees alone.
Since April last year, the Met alone received 210 extradition requests from Poland.
In 2009, Britain extradited a total of 516 offenders to other countries after receiving 3,526 arrest warrants from foreign governments.
A Home Office spokesman said: 'The European Arrest Warrant plays a vital role in ensuring that those who attempt to evade justice by crossing a border within the EU are quickly brought to justice.'

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Jun 23, 10, 06:22 #23

PolskaDoll:

Why on Earth would they publish the evidence they had to the general public?

same as they did with van der sloot whos all over the TV and the only reason they
didnt get him in hollaway case the first time is lack of evidence.

now that hes talking deals. least what is the truth ( if he doesnt keep changing his
story)

in the story above, it just says he is accused of killing her but.....

in the article is says-Officers are continuing to appeal for witnesses who saw anything

so no witnesses, they dont even have the body identified yet, and they are holding
this guy to the murder??

Van der sloot was the last one with hollaway so it kinda gives you something there,
all the sudden she is missing and hes denying he did anything, but yet shes no where
to be found, and he had several different stories and hes seen leaving on camera
and this guy they are accusing of murder, theres nothing.

looks like some shady shyt to me..

I hope they find her killer, but it dont sound like hes the one. I guess its a wait and
see what happens.

♂

Jun 23, 10, 07:01 #24

PolskaDoll:

Why on Earth would they publish the evidence they had to the general public?

they don't have to be specific but here in the US they always at least mention some of the evidence they are using to hold a suspect on..

Amathyst:

innocent until proven otherwise, but we are all aware that if evidence is strong enough, they can remand him until a trial date has been set, if they deem him to be a danger to society (murderers usually are :D )

BTW England isnt some backwater, they must have something on him to have warranted keeping him in for questioning.

ok, so that works like it does in the US..

BTW.. how am i supposed to know.. US dumped UK for a better life so one could assume some of the goings on over there may be a bit backwards, no? ;) :D

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂	Jun 23, 10, 09:14 #25
Captain Scarlet: they even let criminals flee the country I find this very disturbing, to be honest. >^..^< M-G (grumpy)

bimber94Threads: 9 Posts: 400 Joined: Mar 13, 09 ♂	Jun 23, 10, 09:44 #26
British police are not unknown to take the lazy, easy option, not allowing anything silly like common sense and evidence to get in the way. Just look at the way they handled the Colin Stagg case. They eventually had to "apologise unreservedly" on TV.

♂

Jun 23, 10, 20:53 #27

Patrycja19:

they dont even have the body identified yet, and they are holding
this guy to the murder??

She worked in the Uk and provided for her husband and child back in Poland so i guess they're waiting for her husband to arrive and identify her ? According to local gossip and i stress it is gossip she worked with the accused and she ended their relationship ?? Anyway a sad turn of events all said and done .

♀

Jun 24, 10, 00:57 #28

Patrycja19:

same as they did with van der sloot whos all over the TV and the only reason they
didnt get him in hollaway case the first time is lack of evidence.

Yeah that has been a total cock-up. Not the UK though (thankfully).

Patrycja19:

in the article is says-Officers are continuing to appeal for witnesses who saw anything

Patrycja19:

so no witnesses, they dont even have the body identified yet, and they are holding
this guy to the murder??

They probably have some witnesses and evidence but they'll want more and as much as they can possibly get. Better to have 10 witnesses saying one thing rather than just the first one they find. It all helps towards a conviction.

As for the ID - they'll know who she is for sure but it's required here to have a formal identification made by a NOK or similar.

In the case of Elzbieta Kinczyk, they wouldn't have arrested the guy having no evidence but they really don't publish what that evidence is in the press. A press release will likely just say someone has been arrested in the case of whatever the crime was and maybe when they'll first appear in court. The police here only release a bit of evidence info if it's going to help them by doing so. Otherwise they keep it close to their chests. Usually most things come out at the court case.

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