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No job unless you're Polish


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RevokeNiceThreads: 21
Posts: 2,459
Joined: Jun 20, 09 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: RevokeNice  Mar 14, 10, 14:14    #31
skysoulmate:
Not only are we supporting 10% of a country's population (yes folks, >10% of Mexico's population live in the US illegally!) now because of it many jobs require we speak their language.

The EU is on the verge of doing away with visa restrictions on Turkish citizens. Their GNP is less than that of Mexico. Theres 70 million of them.

Give me the Mexicans anyday over the poles and turks.
grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,390
Joined: Feb 1, 10 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 14:22    #32
Seanus:
They denied that was the case.

Sue them instead of whinig.
enkiduThreads: 18
Posts: 978
Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: enkidu  Mar 14, 10, 14:23    #33
Amathyst:
The reality is that they are breaking the law...and such and English person shouldn't have to speak a useless language to get a job in England...maybe if they were applying for a job in Poland in a meat factory it would be useful, but not in England...they want Poles because they are cheap and are a bit naive to the laws in this country, after this though, you might find that his second factory is burnt to the ground :D

Don't get me wrong. I also think that apart from illegality of this situation it is also unfair and plain stupid.
Maybe it would be good thing to do if local Trade Unions would educate Polish workers. If they know their rights - I am sure they wouldn't be so humble.
Other thing - the factories. As I understand they pay Poles below the minimum wage, don't respect their rights for holidays etc. This is illegal. Some huge fines may force the business owners to reconsider their attitude toward Poles.

Really there is a lot to be done. But no one seems to be interested in it.
Its much easier to blame Polish workers. Their only crime was that when offered a job - They accepted it.

Amathyst:
Really? I think you might find that the feelings of many Brits are becoming more and more hostile towards immigrants from certain countries, so yes lots of people blame them....You are looking at it from a different perspective, so I understand you are quite ignorant about how my countrymen feel.

I meant - No one blame the British business owners who obviously betrayed their own countrymen.
RevokeNiceThreads: 21
Posts: 2,459
Joined: Jun 20, 09 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 14:25    #34
enkidu:
Really there is a lot to be done. But no one seems to be interested in it.

Operate a work permit scheme and hire more employment inspectors. The skilled Polish have nothing to worry about as they will gain a permit relatively easily.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,160
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 14:29    #35
No whining here, just a stating of positions.
RevokeNiceThreads: 21
Posts: 2,459
Joined: Jun 20, 09 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 14:31    #36
enkidu:
Its much easier to blame Polish workers. Their only crime was that when offered a job - They accepted it.

What would happen if millions of Brits and Paddies went over to Poland and started undercutting the locals?
enkiduThreads: 18
Posts: 978
Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: enkidu  Mar 14, 10, 14:33    #37
RevokeNice:
Operate a work permit scheme and hire more employment inspectors. The skilled Polish have nothing to worry about as they will gain a permit relatively easily.

Work permit scheme - more paperwork, more corruption, more bureaucrats living lavish life on the taxpayer's expense. Nah...
We don't deed a new law or new organization. The existing ones are quite good. But these laws are not enforced. What I meant - employment inspectors need to be sharp (maybe cruel sometimes). Today the situation is that average employer can save a lot of money by ie employ some Polish and deny them the paid Holiday. Even if the employer would be cached and fined (about £1500) - it' still worth the risk!

RevokeNice:
What would happen if millions of Brits and Paddies went over to Poland and started undercutting the locals?

Brits and Paddies are loosing the competition to the Polish even in the UK - on their own grounds. Do you think they could "undercut" anything in Poland? Don't think so.
grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,390
Joined: Feb 1, 10 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: grubas  Mar 14, 10, 14:35    #38
enkidu:
The answer is simple, dear Watson: Such an English person shall want to learn Polish in order to get a job.
This is silly, but one can't argue with the reality.

Funny thing - I know a lot of places where only Poles works (in London). UE policy has got nothing to do with that situation. It is not even Polish worker's fault. Its an respectable middle-class English business owners, who decided to turn down any job application from his fellow countrymen. Its - the business owners fault.

Good post.You are not a Brit Enkidu,are you?But ,what "fault" they do what gives them better return on investment.This is what good bussinesman does.
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Mar 14, 10, 14:37    #39
RevokeNice:
Give me the Mexicans anyday over the poles and turks.

I can understand (at least to a certain extent) your comment when it comes to Turks as their traditions are vastly different but Poles? Really?

Does every ATM in Britain use English and Polish? In fact, before you withdraw 20 pounds from your ATM do you have to press 1 for English or 2 for Polish? What about stores? Are all the signs in English and Polish? "Restrooms" - "Toalety" (or what's the term anyways?). Open/Otworz, Exit/Wyjscie, Emergency Exit/..., Hospital/Szpital, etc, etc. ad nauseum. Do you have that in the UK?

Is more than 10% of Poland's population now in the UK? What would that be? 4 million Poles? (not sure how many people live in Poland?)

How about prisons? Are 20% of your prisoners Polish? North Carolina's prisons hosts more than 20% of illegal aliens not because they're illegal but because they've robbed, raped, or killed someone and almost all of them come from the same country. Who's paying for all that?

Do Poles coming over file for food stamps (or equivalent) day after crossing the border? I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

I'd gladly take each and every Pole for each illegal Mexican. Note, I said illegal, have NOTHING against the legal ones. Just the amount of criminal and extremely violent Latino gang members is staggering.

So yeah, your proposal sounds like a great deal to us!
aphrodisiacThreads: 19
Posts: 3,907
Joined: Apr 15, 09 ♀ 		Edited by: aphrodisiac  Mar 14, 10, 14:40    #40
enkidu:
Funny thing - I know a lot of places where only Poles works (in London). UE policy has got nothing to do with that situation. It is not even Polish worker's fault. Its an respectable middle-class English business owners, who decided to turn down any job application from his fellow countrymen. Its - the business owners fault.
Frankly - no one seems to blame them.

yep.
skysoulmate:
Just doesn't feel right.

well, what is he reason for using Spanish. If there are a lot of Mexican customers- then I see no problem with that. Business is business is business and it adjust to the market in order to be compatible, no?
Amathyst:
.You are looking at it from a different perspective, so I understand you are quite ignorant about how my countrymen feel.

he is looking at it from the right perspective. The business owners initiated it and you just find it as a fuel to bash immigrants. He is not ignorant how you feel, he has a DIFFERENT opinion.
RevokeNice:
Give me the Mexicans anyday over the poles and turks.

people are not things and so change your guest workers policy or simply fek off with you silly post, which only causes havoc on this board and puts people against each other. You just stir **** because you like it.

I need a helmet from BB;)
RevokeNiceThreads: 21
Posts: 2,459
Joined: Jun 20, 09 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: RevokeNice  Mar 14, 10, 14:41    #41
enkidu:
Work permit scheme - more paperwork, more corruption, more bureaucrats living lavish life on the taxpayer's expense. Nah...
We don't deed a new law or new organization. The existing ones are quite good. But these laws are not enforced. What I meant - employment inspectors need to be sharp (maybe cruel sometimes). Today the situation is that average employer can save a lot of money by ie employ some Polish and deny them the paid Holiday. Even if the employer would be cached and fined (about £1500) - it' still worth the risk!

Bollocks. The current policy of open borders is economically insane.

This is from an Irish perspective but no doubt the same rings true in the UK.

A FAS study over a year ago said that the average immigrant earned just €440 a week, therefore there is very little by way of income tax and as much of this income will go on staple food which is 0 VAT rated and transferred abroad the contribution in consumption taxes and the 'multiplier effect' is very much reduced.

Consider the thousands of teachers that have been taken on in our schools because of immigrant children and the additional cost of immigrant children over and above Irish children because of language support. Then add in the health costs, justice (something like 1/3rd of the prison population are foreigners, mostly eastern europeans). Then look at the economic activity of immigrants. Last week, the CSO said that foreigners were 19.1% of those in receipt of benefits and that figure is rising month on month, I have no doubt it will break 25% next year. Then add in the Childrens Allowances, Rent Supplements, all the other benefits etc etc.
grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,390
Joined: Feb 1, 10 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 14:45    #42
Seanus:
No whining here, just a stating of positions.

I meant workers not you.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,160
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 14:47    #43
I'm not a worker? Wow, that's news to me, amigo ;)
RevokeNiceThreads: 21
Posts: 2,459
Joined: Jun 20, 09 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 14:47    #44
grubas:
I meant workers not you.

The sole purpose of the British government is to provide for its citizens, not eastern euros, not africans, not asians. Just its own citizens.

Its an election year and mass immigration is a big issue so we will see what transpires.
grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,390
Joined: Feb 1, 10 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 14:50    #45
RevokeNice:
English is spoken by billions

It did't help these ppl to get the job.
skysoulmate:
illegal Mexican

Make them legal.problem fixed.
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Mar 14, 10, 14:53    #46
aphrodisiac:
well, what is he reason for using Spanish. If there are a lot of Mexican customers- then I see no problem with that. Business is business is business and it adjust to the market in order to be compatible, no?

We have signs in Spanish in Alaska although not many Mexicans have made it there (yet). I agree about businesses doing what's good for them but nowadays it's more about the fear from being sued by the ACLU, La Raza, etc. for discrimination. In a nutshell, first let the illegals in because if you don't you're rasist. Once they come - print every possible sign in their language because if you don't - you're a rasist...


grubas:
Make them legal.problem fixed.

We did in the 80s. Then millions more came expecting the same again. No, wait in line and do it the legal way like everyone else does.
RevokeNiceThreads: 21
Posts: 2,459
Joined: Jun 20, 09 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 14:57    #47
skysoulmate:
We did in the 80s. Then millions more came expecting the same again. No, wait in line and do it the legal way like everyone else does.

I really dont want to get into this as I like Americans, but technically, they are indigenous to parts of the USA.


:)
skysoulmateThreads: 41
Posts: 3,039
Joined: Jan 10, 10 ♂ 		Edited by: skysoulmate  Mar 14, 10, 15:00    #48
RevokeNice:
I really dont want to get into this as I like Americans, but technically, they are indigenous to parts of the USA.

Well, let's not get into it then but technically Spaniards are and even more technically the Indians are. ;)
enkiduThreads: 18
Posts: 978
Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 15:02    #49
RevokeNice:
Bollocks. The current policy of open borders is economically insane.

This is from an Irish perspective but no doubt the same rings true in the UK.

Open borders policy is the interesting topic but it slightly different from what we are discussing right now. (btw - Poland has a open border policy as well and no problem with immigration. Do you want to know the secret?)

A FAS study over a year ago said that the average immigrant earned just €440 a week, therefore there is very little by way of income tax and as much of this income will go on staple food which is 0 VAT rated and transferred abroad the contribution in consumption taxes and the 'multiplier effect' is very much reduced.

Somebody just has to do odd low-paid jobs. You just can't outsource everything to India.

Consider the thousands of teachers that have been taken on in our schools because of immigrant children and the additional cost of immigrant children over and above Irish children because of language support. Then add in the health costs, justice (something like 1/3rd of the prison population are foreigners, mostly eastern europeans). Then look at the economic activity of immigrants. Last week, the CSO said that foreigners were 19.1% of those in receipt of benefits and that figure is rising month on month, I have no doubt it will break 25% next year. Then add in the Childrens Allowances, Rent Supplements, all the other benefits etc etc.

Of course - you understand that the Poles are just a drop in the ocean comparing to the overall UK immigration? And that the Poles in order to get the access into the welfare system has to prove a 12 months of continuous employment? And that the majority of Poles spend here less than a 12 months - therefore have got no rights whatsoever? (It's called WRS Worker's Registration Scheme).
I also hope that you are aware that there are hundreds of thousands (maybe milions) of so-called asylum seekers who gets every rights in the moment they cross the border? They don't "steal British jobs" simple because they are not entitled to work in the UK. But they are entitled to get council houses and benefits. And that's seems to be an real problem.
grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,390
Joined: Feb 1, 10 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 15:05    #50
RevokeNice:
Give me the Mexicans anyday over the poles and turks.

I will hire aliens if they make me more $$$.
AmathystThreads: 30
Posts: 3,898
Joined: Nov 10, 06 Pictures: 1 ♀ 		 Mar 14, 10, 15:06    #51
enkidu:
Brits and Paddies are loosing the competition to the Polish even in the UK - on their own grounds. Do you think they could "undercut" anything in Poland? Don't think so.

Its not competition, Poles live a very different life-style whilst they are working over here...certainly not one that most if not all Brits would live - This is our home, not somewhere to go and work and then leave.

enkidu:
Its much easier to blame Polish workers.

If someone works for less than the minimum wage then they are the cause of the problem (they do this freely) - we didnt fight for workers rights for some foreigners to come in and undermine that..Thats sounds harsh but its true.

enkidu:
Work permit scheme

Is a perfect answer to the solution - where there is a need an employer would have to apply for these vacancies to be filled if there were no Brits to fill it.

enkidu:
The existing ones are quite good

Not for us they are not - this is clear as they seem to be being broken at every turn.

skysoulmate:
Does every ATM in Britain use English and Polish? In fact, before you withdraw 20 pounds from your ATM do you have to press 1 for English or 2 for Polish?

No, they give the option for French or German. At the new metro ticket machines, they give the option for English, French, German, Spanish and then Polish.


aphrodisiac:
he is looking at it from the right perspective.

If an English person is turned down for a job because he doesnt speak Polish then its wrong, what other perspective is there to look at it from?

Look, I have no issue whatsoever with people of other nationalities coming to work in the UK, if they apply for a job and get the job based on education, skills and experience then they got the job in a fair manner, if they got the job in the UK based solely on the fact they were cheap labour then I do have an issue, because this has a damaging affect on our the indiginous people. I can post some links about how hard the Brits worked and fought for the rights of workers, if you like? These rights are being destroyed.

Its all about supply and demand, if the supply outstrips the demand then we have a problem and this is becoming a problem in the UK.
frdThreads: 8
Posts: 1,956
Joined: Feb 3, 09 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 15:13    #52
does it only work with factory workers? What about software developers and software project managers?
AmathystThreads: 30
Posts: 3,898
Joined: Nov 10, 06 Pictures: 1 ♀ 		 Mar 14, 10, 15:18    #53
frd:
What about software developers and software project managers?

I imagine its being done in all industries, salaries have been driven down...for instance, a friend of mine is a finance administrator (high level) she was made redundant, her salary was £30k, lol, now she is looking and the average is £15k - she was at her company for 8 years, you explain to me, how a salary can half in 8 years?
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,160
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 15:22    #54
Because some people think that 900,000 pounds a year isn't enough for them and ask for more ;) The fatcats are still skimming the cream for ever greater bonuses.
FredChopinThreads: -
Posts: 138
Joined: Jul 26, 09 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 15:23    #55
Amathyst:
she was at her company for 8 years, you explain to me, how a salary can half in 8 years?

Good Old Capitalism at work there. It is a matter of supply and demand. There is a large supply of hungry (insert profession here) out there because of the economy. Demand is low because business is nervous about adding staff because of the economy. Ergo, business can be selective about who they hire, and what they pay them. It is a double edged sword though, because as the econmy improves, those that were hired for much less than they are worth, won't stick around. Demand will improve and the supply will shrink, causing wages to rise. The good ones will be the first to leave.
frdThreads: 8
Posts: 1,956
Joined: Feb 3, 09 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 15:28    #56
Amathyst:
I imagine its being done in all industries, salaries have been driven down...for instance, a friend of mine is a finance administrator (high level) she was made redundant, her salary was £30k, lol, now she is looking and the average is £15k - she was at her company for 8 years, you explain to me, how a salary can half in 8 years?

That's pretty sad.. But, by answering in the "no job unless you're polish" thread do you mean it was caused by polish immigration? I thought that white collar job sector redundancies and cuts were all due to the global crisis..?
terzievThreads: -
Posts: 55
Joined: Nov 17, 09 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 15:29    #57
purplewolf:
They are comparatively unproductive and, to put it bluntly, just lazy.. Poles work harder, more efficiently and effectively.. It's not about discrimination, it's about cruel rules of free market.. Capitalists prefer workers who can work harder, that's so simple... I think it's kinda pathetic that modern English nationalism becomes nothing more but a crying response to meritorical dominance of non-English nations in the global job-market... It's a sign of weakness and national decadence..

haha. dont you think that 'working for only half of the englishman salary' describes the situation better.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,160
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 15:30    #58
I'm surprised that nobody has invoked the parallel argument of 'no job unless you're a native English speaker'. Many native speakers (with all their falsified documents, drinking and questionable dedication to a career) are taking the places of Poles who could teach or who have done a CELTA abroad. They specifically requested one group at the expense of another.
enkiduThreads: 18
Posts: 978
Joined: Sep 23, 08 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 15:32    #59
Just a thought: What if the cutting costs by employing the immigrants is the only way to stay in business? Either immigrants or closure. If you didn't notice - It's a crisis (depression) time.
frdThreads: 8
Posts: 1,956
Joined: Feb 3, 09 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 15:35    #60
Seanus:
I'm surprised that nobody has invoked the parallel argument of 'no job unless you're a native English speaker'

I would image that most people ( maybe except the most basic levels ) who learn english would prefer a native teacher hence the bigger immersion factor.. It's not a big surprise,had to happen sooner or later.
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