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No job unless you're Polish


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grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,390
Joined: Feb 1, 10 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: grubas  Mar 14, 10, 15:39    #61
Seanus:
I'm not a worker? Wow, that's news to me, amigo ;)

Did you apply for the job at FORZA???-)Try not to be.Being worker sucks a*s.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,160
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Seanus  Mar 14, 10, 15:39    #62
Well, it also has to do with the fact that many schools started off down that road many years ago. Schools with native speakers have become institutionalised. Besides, I wouldn't have the fullest trust in Polish teachers (generally yes) to teach tricky points. They ask me some things which I find basic.

Having said that, they are more than good enough for communication purposes. It just depends on the school. They'd struggle teaching articles to a high level. If you want to be precise in language, they need to be mastered fully.

FORZA? What, FORZA Napoli? ;) ;)
RevokeNiceThreads: 21
Posts: 2,459
Joined: Jun 20, 09 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 15:43    #63
enkidu:
Just a thought: What if the cutting costs by employing the immigrants is the only way to stay in business? Either immigrants or closure. If you didn't notice - It's a crisis (depression) time.

Slash the welfare state and there is no need for unskilled immigrants.
aphrodisiacThreads: 19
Posts: 3,907
Joined: Apr 15, 09 ♀ 		 Mar 14, 10, 15:48    #64
Amathyst:
If an English person is turned down for a job because he doesnt speak Polish then its wrong, what other perspective is there to look at it from?

It is, but we are discussing an Irish company, aren't we? I think it is not fair to the Irish for sure or people who don't speak Polish.


Amathyst:
I can post some links about how hard the Brits worked and fought for the rights of workers, if you like? These rights are being destroyed.

there is no need, I am aware of the situation. Things like that happen here as well and it appears that I happen to be too white to get a job, or that I am overeducated, or my English skills are too advanced and on, and on.
Amathyst:
Its all about supply and demand, if the supply outstrips the demand then we have a problem and this is becoming a problem in the UK.

I would say worldwide, since less and less countries are insular and the biggest "import" % wise is import of the labour - I think I posted that at least 2 years ago on this board.
grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,390
Joined: Feb 1, 10 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: grubas  Mar 14, 10, 15:48    #65
Seanus:
FORZA? What, FORZA Napoli? ;) ;)

Cooked meat manufacturer FORZA AW.did you read article?Napoli is S.C (Sportiva Calcio).
grubasThreads: 20
Posts: 1,390
Joined: Feb 1, 10 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 16:00    #66
If you didn't apply ,I don't think you can sue them.but dont take my word for that,check with lawyers.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,160
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 16:04    #67
Geez, grubas. I don't even need my legal knowledge to tell me the position on that one. Of course you can sue them if you single out the EU provision regulating it.
SeanBMThreads: 41
Posts: 8,647
Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: SeanBM  Mar 14, 10, 16:13    #68
You must have been salivating and drooling when you found that discriminate daily mail article RevokeNice. I say discriminative because they are well known for it, like yourself RN.

Scanning all the trashy tabloids to find something to moan about.
I am glad to see you are finally concerned with other nationalities for a change.
The English people who have been discriminated against will be proud of your support.

But this is about English people not hiring English people, not as if the Poles are to blame is it?
I know you'll find a way to blame them anyway.

‘Under the 1976 Race Relations Act, unless there is a genuine need for a worker to speak a particular language it is against the law to require that they should do so as a condition of employing them.’

Interesting because the article says nothing about anyone actually bringing anyone to court, so if a crime was committed and it's provable why are charges not being pressed?
Would the Daily mail manipulate the evidence to suit their own agenda about such a serious thing? Yes they could, they have before.

Equality and Human Rights Commission’s report condemned the ‘mistreatment and exploitation’ of foreign workers, who are often too afraid to raise concerns for fear of being sacked.

The commission said it uncovered ‘widespread evidence’ of physical and verbal abuse and lack of proper health and safety protection, while workers often have little knowledge of their rights.

So these people were being abused by English people who employed them because the locals know their rights and the foreigners are
less inclined to answer back.

.

So in essence what we are talking about here is an unscrupulous English company who mistreats everyone, legal foreign workers and locals and should be brought to justice if a crime has been committed but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Amanda91Threads: 3
Posts: 336
Joined: May 27, 07 ♀ 		 Mar 14, 10, 16:21    #69
RevokeNice:
No job unless you're Polish

if it happened in Poland, I would kind of understand it but in UK? It sounds like a bad joke.
I wonder if something like this ever happened in the US too.
mafketisThreads: 15
Posts: 1,830
Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 16:23    #70
I'm sure this is being blown out of proportion and there's more to the story than being reported.

But, even if it weren't it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. The world is full of language prejudice and situations where native speakers are discriminated against in their own counties.

Why shouldn't English speakers experience a taste of that? They've dealt it out enough.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,160
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 16:24    #71
As sb mentioned above, it's supply and demand. Employers who like to cut corners will happily supply such terms and conditions in the knowledge of steady demand. It's a reality, best believe it.
Amanda91Threads: 3
Posts: 336
Joined: May 27, 07 ♀ 		Edited by: Amanda91  Mar 14, 10, 16:25    #72
mafketis:
But, even if it weren't it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

I guess, you're not English then.


Seanus:
it's supply and demand

it's just bad when your own people are being treated like that in your own country.
RevokeNiceThreads: 21
Posts: 2,459
Joined: Jun 20, 09 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 16:31    #73
mafketis:
I'm sure this is being blown out of proportion and there's more to the story than being reported.

Try a google search. Its a regular occurance at this stage.

Due to Polands dangerously low birth rate, Poland is going to get lashed out of it with mass immigration in the not so distant future. Gonna be interesting to say the least.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,160
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 16:32    #74
Oh, for sure. The thing is, it's generally Brits that do it. They employ and care not for their own people. Blair's moves towards a classless society are coming more clearly into focus now. What he didn't see was that classes in Britain were quite firmly rooted and the working class, in particular, will defend their corner. Thatcher may have suppressed protesting instincts through trade unions but she didn't crush them. Many new Scargill types can pop up when their back is against the wall in their own country. As long as they are taking active steps to procure, then stay, in employment then they will be fighting the good fight.

The key is not to hack at the Poles for merely using their options. Britain has to look inwards. Brown must know that his days are numbered.
mafketisThreads: 15
Posts: 1,830
Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 16:33    #75
Amanda91:
I guess, you're not English then.

No. I'm not Polish either (though I do speak Polish).

Amanda91:
it's just bad when your own people are being treated like that in your own country.

The British public gets an inkling of what life is like for billions of people around the world who are discriminated against because they don't know some language well enough. Think of it as an opportunity for personal and societal growth.
Amanda91Threads: 3
Posts: 336
Joined: May 27, 07 ♀ 		Edited by: Amanda91  Mar 14, 10, 16:40    #76
mafketis:
The British public gets an inkling of what life is like for billions of people around the world who are discriminated against because they don't know some language well enough

It sounds like you're pretty bitter but don't forget that it's a matter of a language popularity here. English is simply more popular than any other language (unless you count Chinese due to the Chinese population).
mafketisThreads: 15
Posts: 1,830
Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 16:47    #77
Amanda91:
It sounds like you're pretty bitter but don't forget that it's a matter of language popularity here.

I'm not bitter at all, I'm a realist. People who get angry about this mostly do so because they have a language double standard.
Amanda91Threads: 3
Posts: 336
Joined: May 27, 07 ♀ 		 Mar 14, 10, 16:50    #78
mafketis:
they have a language double standard.

explain, please
TrevekThreads: 30
Posts: 2,088
Joined: May 21, 08 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 16:54    #79
I suspect that it is more a case that the training sessions were for Polish workers.

Mind you, next week the DM will run a story of how the Poles were actually used as meat, and british pigs and cows will be protesting about these foreigners coming over and stealing their jobs.
TrevekThreads: 30
Posts: 2,088
Joined: May 21, 08 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 17:02    #80
SeanBM:
Also known as slavery.

At last, we are getting back to the good old days! The Empire returns!
mafketisThreads: 15
Posts: 1,830
Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 17:04    #81
British people have not historically minded when others are forced to speak English and/or discriminated against in hiring if they don't.

Actually, if you keep up with this forum, you'll find that there are many (not all, maybe not most but many) British people who live in Poland and expect anyone and everyone they come into contact with in Poland to speak English and often get miffed when people don't or won't. I've known ones who were upset that the Polish government makes them fill out forms in Poilish.

Why should anyone feel bad about this trivial little case?

What I think is probably going on: They have a good record with Polish workers and they have enough Polish applicants that it makes sense to have training in that language (for safety purposes*). I wouldn't be surprised if the real people they're trying to keep out aren't native British but other immigrant groups whose work records aren't as good.

*I remember in the movie Fast Food Nation how they had Mexicans in a meat packing factory watch safety training films in English, a language they mostly didn't speak.
ShortHairThugThreads: -
Posts: 1,295
Joined: May 1, 09 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 17:09    #82
As tempting as it is to have a bit of fun with this one I just can’t. Seriously there’s something wrong with this picture and no one seem to put a finger on it. Big Business gets a free pass on their tactics to maximize their profits with the help of few chosen ones in politics. They have been brainwashing Joe the voter with that PC crap and catchy one line slogans for years now. Those resilient to conform are branded as bigots, racists, anti-Semite, what have you for revealing a shred of truth. To be honest, changing the ruling party won’t help, it’s guaranteed that their agenda will remain unchanged with the backing of their cronies in whatever party they might be. That has been a trend for the pest 20 or so odd years in politics of whatever country, not just EU. Sometimes it makes you wonder if people like RevokeNice are not paid to deflect the blame thus ensuring that people won’t demand their rights and fair treatment; or worst their anger, where they should - at the source. Face it we are all played like a fiddle, who knows if they play their cards right they might even solve the population problem in near future by turning each and every one of you against each other. Adopting a Chinese model would just not be PC correct LOL.
time meansThreads: 9
Posts: 2,309
Joined: Apr 21, 08 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 17:13    #83
mafketis:
they have a language double standard.

How can you have a language double standard in your own country?


ShortHairThug:
As tempting as it is to have a bit of fun with this one

SHT is right. My god i can't believe me and SHT agree on something :-)
RevokeNiceThreads: 21
Posts: 2,459
Joined: Jun 20, 09 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 17:17    #84
What about Browns "British jobs for British workers" statement?

Somebody needs to buy him a map of the world.
Amanda91Threads: 3
Posts: 336
Joined: May 27, 07 ♀ 		Edited by: Amanda91  Mar 14, 10, 17:17    #85
mafketis:
British people who live in Poland and expect anyone and everyone they come into contact with in Poland to speak English and often get miffed when people don't or won't

I'm sure it has nothing to do with discrimination but with what I've mentioned above, English language is a world language and wherever you go, you'll find people who can speak it. To learn Polish is rather a kind of showing respect to Polish people while in Poland or while having a Polish partner, otherwise where else do you need this language? Then again obviously it's smart to learn as many languages as possible but like I said above, it's not a necessity if you know English.
SeanBMThreads: 41
Posts: 8,647
Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 17:17    #86
ShortHairThug:
Big Business gets a free pass

I agree.

ShortHairThug:
people won’t demand their rights and fair treatment;

That is why I find it very strange that locals are not bringing the company to court for discrimination and the Poles aren't bringing them to court for "physical and verbal abuse and lack of proper health and safety protection"?
It doesn't make sense, perhaps they will in the future?

ShortHairThug:
who knows if they play their cards right they might even solve the population problem in near future by turning each and every one of you against each other.

The Daily Mail do seem to do their best at this.
Most British people know about the Daily Mail and their agenda, don't they?
TrevekThreads: 30
Posts: 2,088
Joined: May 21, 08 ♂ 		Edited by: Trevek  Mar 14, 10, 17:20    #87
RevokeNice:
Somebody needs to buy him a map of the world.

Ah, but if you're british, you know most of the world is actually British (at heart).

SeanBM:
Most British people know about the Daily Mail and their agenda, don't they?

In the same way most Germans knew about Mein kampf and it's agenda!
SeanBMThreads: 41
Posts: 8,647
Joined: Mar 10, 08 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 17:26    #88
RevokeNice:
Ship 'em back, I say!

Concerned British citizen speaks out against injustice but blames the wrong people, again.

Trevek:
In the same way most Germans knew about Mein kampf and it's agenda!

Yeah, that's what I thought. I have never seen that tabloid taken as serious anywhere in England as it is on these forums.

Look at RN there, he thinks he has a point, while anyone who can read between the lines are not laughing, are not trying to manipulate people but are trying to get to the heart of the matter.
IF the company has broken the law, they must be brought to justice and the appropriate penalties applied. Both locals and legal foreign workers are being shafted and it is a disgrace.
time meansThreads: 9
Posts: 2,309
Joined: Apr 21, 08 Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: time means  Mar 14, 10, 17:30    #89
SeanBM:
The Daily Mail do seem to do their best at this.
Most British people know about the Daily Mail and their agenda, don't they?

Quite ironic that the Daily Mail is now championing the rights of British workers given its history.
mafketisThreads: 15
Posts: 1,830
Joined: Mar 31, 08 ♂ 		 Mar 14, 10, 17:36    #90
Amanda91:
I'm sure it has nothing to do with discrimination but with what I've mentioned above, English language is a world language

See? You have the same double standard! One standard for English speakers and another for all the rest. English speakers expect to be deferred to and get huffy when they aren't.

As far as I can tell, this company is happy with Polish workers and wants more of them so it offers training in Polish and does not seek out other nationalities very much. Demand, meet supply.
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