Poland and Britain? What has caused the downtur in the UK?

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Apr 18, 11, 12:55 #1

Following various remarks on PF one can conclude that Brits are even more critical of their own country than Americans are of theirs, by and large. Of course, Poles are also highly critical of Poland and many are just waiting for 1st May to head for greener pastures in Germany and Austria.
Some UK expats are dismayed at what they find at home after spending a few years in Poland. Some have even toyed with the notion of returning to Lechistan.
What has caused the downturn in the UK? Is it only the economy? Have interpersonal relations also deteriorated? Is failed multi-culti (Merkel's remark) to blame? That still is not a problem in Poland to any significant degree.

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Apr 18, 11, 12:57 #2

Polonius3:

Poles are also highly critical of Poland and many are just waiting for 1st May to head for greener pastures in Germany and Austria.

They are?

Everything I've heard suggests quite the opposite - anyone who wanted to work in Germany already is working there as a self employed contractor (quite legal). Given the dire economic situation in the Eastern borderland of Germany, it would seem rather unlikely that anyone will be commuting there for work.

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Edited by: isthatu2 Apr 18, 11, 13:16 #3

Polonius3:

What has caused the downturn in the UK?

We always grumble....nothing new. There was always a "good old days" normally either when you were about 5 or about 5 years before you were born.....
I think its an island thing, grumble,moan a bit, have a good old b!tch about something then just get on with life after you let the steam boil off :)
I think the secret is we like to talk glass half empty but inside we know the glass is half full and theres a new bottle in the fridge ....hopefully....probably have gone off or corked,but,hell,thats what mass immigration does...;)

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Apr 18, 11, 13:19 #4

Polonius3:

Some UK expats are dismayed at what they find at home after spending a few years in Poland.

Well in my case things have changed too much in the UK after living here for 12 years and I wouldn't even know where to start moving back.
Fir example: My Father had a massive heart attack two months ago and has been told he needs a major op again - this time it is the mitral valve which is currently leaking fluid back into his lung - hence he has had pleurisy/pneumonia/ and then a heart attack and admissions into hospital. This will be in the next two to three months and the surgeon may have to replace the old aortic valve at the same time.

Two to three months?
I seriously do not think he is going to last that long as he can hardly breath now and it has got so bad that mu sister has had to move in with him as he cannot get any home help as the local authority has run out of money until the beginning of June.

I know we can mirror these examples in Poland but for such a supposedly richer country the health service in the UK is disgusting.

I also have a nine-year-old daughter and I really believe she would get a much better education where we are in Poland than in the UK.
Polish children are still installed with the notion that it is essential to get good exam results to succeed in life and although the career opportunities are not that prevalent as they are in the UK, in time I think this will change - at least I hope so!

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Edited by: isthatu2 Apr 18, 11, 13:32 #5

ukpolska:

Two to three months?

Delays can often be to get the patient upto a better standard of over all fitness to prepare them for a better chance under GA.
I hope your Father stays comfortable till his op and ,as valuable or not as they are , my best wishes for you and him .

ukpolska:

Polish children are still installed with the notion that it is essential to get good exam results to succeed in life

Yes,but its not though is it?
And exams that are passed under dubious curcumstances are maybe valued in Poland but are being "found out" in the wider world.
(edit,thats exams in any country where pressure is put on schools via tables,leagues,targets etc...)

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Apr 18, 11, 13:33 #6

ukpolska:

Well in my case things have changed too much in the UK after living here for 12 years and I wouldn't even know where to start moving back.

I agree in part with this comment, also as we get older, we take less risk - it is the age V risk, scenario. But I can see myself going back to the UK in later life. Although the ideal situation would be 8 months in PL and 4 months in Spain ( PL winter)

ukpolska:

I also have a nine-year-old daughter and I really believe she would get a much better education where we are in Poland than in the UK

I also have children and we are committed to their education path for the next 7 years. It is not good for the child to change school, systems and countries.

Chris_cambridgeThreads: - Posts: 2 Joined: Apr 12, 11 ♀	Apr 18, 11, 14:06 #7
I hope your father gets well soon. I agree the health service isnt great but I think we are lucky to have a one.

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Edited by: Varsovian Apr 18, 11, 14:16 #8

In Poland you would be able to afford going private. In Britain, you wouldn't. I hope the operation is going to be done in a unit which does a decent number of heart operations - there are surprisingly few of them. The problem with the small places is that they have little experience and poor supervision, leading inevitably to high mortality rates. Bristol is an infamous case in point.

And I would say that Brits have been sold down the river when it comes to public healthcare by all concerned: doctors, nurses, management, construction companies, public finance initiative players - regardless of which party is in power. But Brits are simply too thick to understand anything beyond simplistic slogans. The last elections are a case in point - Labour should have been absolutely slaughtered, but wasn't.

rozumiemnicThreads: 4 Posts: 1,021 Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀	Apr 18, 11, 14:21 #9
Varsovian: But Brits are simply too thick to understand anything beyond simplistic slogans. excuse me? Speak for yourself.

VarsovianThreads: 91 Posts: 568 Joined: Nov 23, 06 ♂	Apr 18, 11, 14:29 #10
Look SLD disgraced themselves when in power last and the election punished them severely. Labour took the UK to the brink of bankruptcy and it's OK, cos it all started in America!! That's clever! The NHS - any idea of how PFI has crippled the NHS for a generation? No-one bats an eyelid.

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Apr 18, 11, 14:38 #11

Varsovian:

No-one bats an eyelid.

so easy for some spoilt "expat" to make sweeping statements and become convinced nobody is as clever or as "aware" as themselves. Its a very commom syndrome is people who leave the UK.[url=]http://www.coalitionofresistance.org.uk/2011/03/10763/[/url]
and there's plenty more where that came from if you could be bothered to look, rather than making "clever" comments from 2000 miles away.

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER ♂	Apr 18, 11, 14:41 #12
Thanks for your wishes guys... He is a fighter and so we all are praying he will be okay.

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Apr 18, 11, 14:43 #13

isthatu2:

ukpolska: Polish children are still installed with the notion that it is essential to get good exam results to succeed in life

Isn't this more through decent parenting than the country itself?

Yes alot of brits dont value education like they do in other countries BUT children that have been raised knowing the importance of education still keep that value and try hard at school.
Saying that though, having a good education does not always mean you will succeed in life, it helps but with the amount of kids today that are taking degrees and not finding a job afterwards is increasing.
Sometimes its who you know not what you know.

Personally I think education is very important, not so much the grades but just being educated and using this to get through life.

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER ♂	Apr 18, 11, 15:48 #14
stinkybugger: Isn't this more through decent parenting than the country itself? Yes of course this is a factor, but I still feel there is an inherent post communist attitude of 'survival of the fittest' in Poland at least that is what I have witnessed over the years.

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Apr 18, 11, 15:54 #15

Except half my family works for the NHS - it's not much fun when people are keeling over in Pinderfields Hospital Wakefield cos the PFI contract demands exorbitant profit rather than performance and the former management of the hospital has all left. But it doesn't matter much, does it? Or that an acquaintance of mine has to get diagnosed for cancer and treated in Greece. Oh oh oh ex-pats ...
I'm not an ex-pat - I'm an immigrant.

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,388 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	Apr 18, 11, 15:55 #16
ukpolska: 'survival of the fittest' in Poland at least that is what I have witnessed over the years. Move to Warsaw.

rozumiemnicThreads: 4 Posts: 1,021 Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀	Apr 18, 11, 15:59 #17
Varsovian: I'm not an ex-pat - I'm an immigrant. sure.

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: ukpolska Apr 18, 11, 15:59 #18
warszawski: Move to Warsaw. Not on your Nelly! Prefer the quiet life in-between the forests and beside the Wisła ;0)

amanada n	Apr 18, 11, 17:38 #19
delphiandomine: They are? Yes, they are. Poles are famouse of being grumpy about their country. If you understanded Polish enough well, you would know how many negative things people say about their country.

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,388 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	Apr 18, 11, 18:01 #20
ukpolska: beside the Wisła I don't want to tempt fate, its nearly that time of the year.

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Apr 18, 11, 18:11 #21

Varsovian:

The last elections are a case in point - Labour should have been absolutely slaughtered, but wasn't.

Labour changing boundaries had a lot to do with that. Fewer people voted Labour in 2005 when they got in with a clear majority, than the number who voted Tory last year which culminated in a hung parliament. Take where I live for example, it has always been a close contest between Liberal and Tory, the neighbouring constituency has always been a safe Tory seat. The last Labour government changed the boundaries, moving the part of the constituency with the major Tory vote, to the neighbouring safe Tory seat, which has now made the constituency I now live in a safe Liberal seat, without the Liberal vote increasing, creating one less Tory seat against Labour. Add to this a lot of people's lives were decimated under the last Tory government, these people will either continue to vote Labour just to keep the Tory's out, or not bother voting at all.
There's no difference between New Labour the Tories or the Lib Dems, they're all a bunch of lying, self serving career politicians, who couldn't give a flying **** for the electorate, as long as they keep voting for them and their mates. Blair, Cameron and Clegg were all educated at highly expensive public schools, strait into Oxbridge, then from there to politics, not a bloody clue about the country or it's people and not a care either.

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER ♂	Apr 18, 11, 19:07 #22
warszawski: I don't want to tempt fate, its nearly that time of the year. I am up on a hill so it doesn't affect me but it did in the town of Janowiec next to us last year.

warszawskiThreads: 60 Posts: 2,388 Joined: May 21, 10 ♂	Edited by: warszawski Apr 18, 11, 19:22 #23
ukpolska: I am up on a hill so it doesn't affect me but it did in the town of Janowiec next to us last year I know the area vey well as I have been visited Kazimierz Dolny many times over the last twenty years. The people of the area around Pulawy, I have always found very pleasent.

JustysiaSThreads: 15 Posts: 2,869 Joined: Oct 14, 07 MEMBER ♀	Edited by: JustysiaS Apr 18, 11, 21:17 #24
Daisy: Blair, Cameron and Clegg were all educated at highly expensive public schools, strait into Oxbridge, then from there to politics, not a bloody clue about the country or it's people and not a care either very true, that's politicians everywhere, people go into it for the wrong reasons. maybe if the expenses pot wasn't so generous we could weed out the people who are in it for the money

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Apr 18, 11, 22:02 #25

JustysiaS:

very true, that's politicians everywhere, people go into it for the wrong reasons. maybe if the expenses pot wasn't so generous we could weed out the people who are in it for the money

I agree, instead of MPs being paid a salary and huge expenses, they should just be allowed leave from work and compensation for loss of wages, so that they neither gain nor lose out financially. A former work colleague of mine was mayor for a year, he was allowed a paid year off of work to do the job. They should also be made to stick to their election promises, failure to do so and they're out.

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Apr 19, 11, 00:30 #26

ukpolska:

Polish children are still installed with the notion that it is essential to get good exam results to succeed in life and although the career opportunities are not that prevalent as they are in the UK, in time I think this will change - at least I hope so!

I'd say it's not so much about the exam results as the "bit of paper" - which is sadly all too often fraudulently obtained.

From everything I've read - the Polish system is more demanding in terms of pure knowledge, but is far less demanding in terms of actual practical ability. One big problem that the Polish system has is that while self-motivated people can get ahead, it also produces a vast amount of graduates who expect jobs to fall into their lap. A lot of them also have the attitude of "work? during summer? BUT IT IS HOLIDAY TIME" - I know several employers who are specifically looking for people who have used their summer holidays productively and not fooling around the mountains or beaches.

Then again, the UK system does produce utter failures too - so in my opinion, neither system is perfect. But the UK system does offer far more choice and flexibility.

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Apr 19, 11, 00:35 #27

delphiandomine:

A lot of them also have the attitude of "work? during summer? BUT IT IS HOLIDAY TIME" - I know several employers who are specifically looking for people who have used their summer holidays productively and not fooling around the mountains or beaches.

Haha I hope alot of Poles on holiday in the coming months offend your bitter Scottish sense of duty to the production paradigm, and more than this I hope they pour beer on you, kick sand in your face, and give you painful titty twisters resulting in severe purple nurpels.

ukpolskaThreads: 51 Posts: 2,238 Joined: Oct 23, 06 MEMBER ♂	Edited by: ukpolska Apr 19, 11, 15:51 #28
delphiandomine: I'd say it's not so much about the exam results as the "bit of paper" - which is sadly all too often fraudulently obtained. In all the time I have been here I have never seen this myself - and yes I have heard about it, but you hear the same thing in the UK; however, common sense says that you cannot use this as a general rule, UK or PL.

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