Poles top the UK's EU crime figures

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Apr 11, 11, 13:32 #1

From today's Daily Telegraph.

More than 54,000 European Union citizens have been convicted of crimes — including murder — in the past two years The Daily Telegraph can disclose.

Poles and Romanians are the worst offenders according to the figures, adding to concerns over the impact of the two most recent EU expansions.

And because of EU rules on freedom of movement, only those sentenced to at least two years in prison face deportation after they complete their punishment.

Rest of story plus stats table here.

My take on this is that a high proportion of the Poles who've come to the UK are working class young men - the group in society who are most likely to commit crimes. This distorts the figures. Three or four years ago some police ststions in Poland reported a decrease in crime due to migration to the UK. The high figure for Lithuanians surprised me, since there are far fewr than Poles.

alexw68

Apr 11, 11, 13:42 #2

The other thing to point out is the potential sampling error. The non-EU figures aren't mentioned; neither is the fact that a lot of the most serious crime (the gang-related stuff going on all over London, for example) vanishes from the statistics due to being either unreported or reported, but victims/witnesses refuse to press charges on grounds of personal safety.

Which doesn't negate your point, Jonny, but it does perhaps slightly dilute it.

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Apr 11, 11, 13:47 #3

alexw68:

Which doesn't negate your point, Jonny, but it does perhaps slightly dilute it

I didn't really post it with a 'point' as such - just out of interest. It's true thought tha the figures don't distinguish between murder and driving without an MOT.

alexw68:

a lot of the most serious crime (the gang-related stuff going on all over London, for example) vanishes from the statistics due to being either unreported

Probably even more due to people getting away with stuff, serious or otherwise - sometimes there's just nothing to report and nobody interested in reporting it.

♂

Edited by: jwojcie Apr 11, 11, 16:29 #4

That kind of news is irrelevant without percentage numbers.
Though the lacking number here is an amount of Poles in UK. Quite safe number which pops here and there is about 0,7 mln. If apply to that number the amount of convictions from the article (In 2010, 6777 convictions) then we get about 1% convictions for a population of Poles.
Is it a big number? Well, for example statistics shows that amount of convictions per 100 000 population in 2000 in UK: England & Wales was 2684. Which is abuot 2,7% for a population.

Conclusion would be that Poles are relatively not violent and rarely convicted people. UK should be glad to have them because they are lowering general statistics ;)
Of course if there is less than 250000 Poles in UK then there is a different story... ;)

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Apr 11, 11, 16:40 #5
jwojcie: That kind of news is irrelevant without percentage numbers. Exactly - it distorts the figures, especially since it doesn't distinguish between the number of Poles and Lithuanians. One problem is that there aren't any reliable numbers to base a percentage on. These figures are purely based on court convictions.

George8600Threads: 20 Posts: 1,114 Joined: Feb 19, 09 ♂	Apr 11, 11, 18:05 #6
Bloody hell..... so let me guess the top countries. Poles are doing their usual hassling, the Romanian romas are spurring up things with their outcasted culture, the Irish are getting into bar fights, and the French are coming to the UK as sex-tourists.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,957 Joined: May 17, 07 ♂	Apr 11, 11, 18:11 #7
About Romanians true about Poles not true due to different numbers in the UK.(only the incidence matters).

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Apr 11, 11, 18:53 #8
JonnyM: My take on this Typical Polonophobic s*hit.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Apr 11, 11, 18:59 #9
Grzegorz_: Typical Polonophobic s*hit. In what way?

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Apr 11, 11, 19:11 #10

In 2010, 6,777 Poles were convicted of crimes and 4,343 Romanians.

They were followed by citizens from Lithuania (4,176), Ireland (2,423) and Latvia (1,938). It means, with the exception of Ireland, the worst offenders came from countries that joined the EU in either 2004 or 2007.

There are at least several times fever citizens of the "following" countries in the UK than Poles, so they are much more likely than Poles to commit crimes.

Imagine the article stating that Chinese are the worst offenders in the world and providing some details about a Chinese guy killing his ex-girlfriend. How would a thinking human call that kind of journalism ? Either xenophobic or idiotic or both.

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Apr 11, 11, 19:18 #11

Grzegorz_:

There are at least several times fever citizens of the "following" countries in the UK than Poles, so they are much more likely than Poles to commit crimes.

That's mentioned in the article. Even before the statistics table. Still think it's 'polonophobic'?

Grzegorz_:

Imagine the article stating that Chinese are the worst offenders in the world

Do they say that about Poles? They are however the most prolific offenders from the EU in the UK.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Apr 11, 11, 19:37 #12
JonnyM: That's mentioned in the article. Please quote that part. JonnyM: Do they say that about Poles? Yes.

JonnyMThreads: 16 Posts: 4,487 Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂	Edited by: JonnyM Apr 11, 11, 19:41 #13
Grzegorz_: Yes. So where do they say that Poles are: Grzegorz_: the worst offenders in the world ??

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Apr 11, 11, 20:01 #14

Grzegorz_:

Typical Polonophobic s*hit.

No it isn't. Your statement however is showing me that you're somehow trying to excuse it calling it "Polonophobic sh*t" and there's nothing to excuse and nothing to be proud of either.
It doesn't mean that all Poles are criminals, it shows that some of you who left Poland are criminals and you guys should be mad at those who are responsible for those bad numbers instead to be peed off at someone who has posted some facts about it on PF.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,786 Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂	Apr 11, 11, 20:11 #15
JonnyM: My take on this My take is on this is that newspaper point something which is in reality minor problem - reactively.

saschaThreads: 13 Posts: 3,859 Joined: Jun 10, 10 ♂	Edited by: Moderator Apr 11, 11, 20:11 #16
JonnyM: Rest of story plus stats table here. Nice, nice Mr. Cameron or whoever from your administration. The multcultural society has failed, that's what you said and what is easier than bad news(propaganda)? Now they are on top 'all' criminals' and the locals are angels. That's called splitting.

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Edited by: southern Apr 11, 11, 20:15 #17

Grzegorz_:

In 2010, 6,777 Poles were convicted of crimes and 4,343 Romanians.

For example if there are 1.5 million Poles in the UK the likelihood that a Pole commits a crime is 6777/1500000=0.0045.On the same time given the presence of 100 thousand Romanians in the UK the likelihood that a Romanian commits a crime is 4343/100000=0.043 which means that a Romanian is 100 times more likely to commit a crime than a Pole that is 10000% more likely.The incidence of crime by Poles must actually be less than the incidence for English.

''the Office for National Statistics estimates that, in 2009, 58,000 Romanian-born people were resident in the UK''

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_migration_to_the_United_Kingdom

OgienThreads: 15 Posts: 420 Joined: Jul 22, 09 ♂	Apr 11, 11, 20:29 #18
Are there any reliable stats on non-European immigrants?

grahambarber	Apr 11, 11, 22:24 #19
crazy crazy we've got our own poor underclass and now we have an exodus of polish,lithuanian criminals who can just freely come here with no check's no visa's it's insane and our own poor people are just getting poorer , the country is a vile joke the British poor have just got poorer over the last 10 years , revolution is what's needed

dieseldyke	Apr 11, 11, 22:30 #20
grahambarber you actually sound as if you are frothing at the mouth, and need help. Times are hard worldwide, alot harder in other countries than in good ol GB. Thousands of British have emigrated to Spain and other countries....or is that different.? If you really feel that upset, then leave, emigrate. You're getting boring.

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Apr 12, 11, 12:32 #21
dieseldyke: Thousands of British have emigrated to Spain and other countries....or is that different.? Crap argument,most British expat workers are profesionals but most expats are retired.....no presure on local jobs. Show me how many Brits on the Costas work in Spanish factories......

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Apr 12, 11, 12:36 #22
guesswho: and you guys should be mad at those who are responsible for those bad numbers The point is that the numbers really aren't bad.

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Apr 12, 11, 12:51 #23
Most of the crime probably goes unreported. Other immigrants tend to be the main target of scum bags. Most of the reported stuff will be average young lads away from home getting a bit silly after a few beers. But of course there isnt an outcry in Poland about it,why would they complain,its only their problem when the Polish Police have to foot the bill for its weekly Con Air flights :)

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Edited by: rozumiemnic Apr 12, 11, 14:44 #24

isthatu2:

Crap argument,

no it is not a crap argument. Many British Immigrants to Spain show disregard and contempt for the locals. Additionally they put pressure on local services such as education (loads of British kids in Spanish schools)and healthcare. Yes alot of them are old (extra pressure on healthcare) , and many of them make no attempt to learn the language.
Many of them are of working age, in a country with 20 per cent unemployment. And many of them do display a kind of neo colonial attitude.
And that is only ONE country. It is hardly a "crap" argument to be summarily dismissed.
Anyway my point to Graham Barber is that if he doesn't like things, he can make changes, instead of sitting at his PC foaming at the mouth. (yes I am dieseldyke..:)

Yes there are POlish criminals of course. They are hardly representative of the majority of hard working people.

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Apr 12, 11, 15:01 #25
Grzegorz_: The point is that the numbers really aren't bad. well, I guess you don't have much to worry about then.

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Apr 12, 11, 18:11 #26

isthatu2:

Show me how many Brits on the Costas work in Spanish factories......

Unfortunately they are busy standing in some line or sitting around in their pubs. There is not much contact with the locals, just what is necessary and appropriate...

rozumiemnic:

Many British Immigrants to Spain show disregard and contempt for the locals

That is to some degree correct.

rozumiemnic:

Additionally they put pressure on local services such as education (loads of British kids in Spanish schools)and healthcare. Yes alot of them are old (extra pressure on healthcare) , and many of them make no attempt to learn the language.

My estimation would be, if they are working in foreign countries then probably for Uk companies, 'cause the wages in f.e. Spain are significantly lower compared to rest of EU...what may lead to the conclusion that their numbers is not that high and therefore they are no threat for local labor market.

The shown statistic in that article is once more another argument to form a sort of ranking inside EU and actually confirm the prejudices rather than minimize them.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06 ♂	Apr 12, 11, 23:08 #27
guesswho: I guess you don't have much to worry about True. I just pointed out xenophobic nature of this article.

saschaThreads: 13 Posts: 3,859 Joined: Jun 10, 10 ♂	Apr 13, 11, 19:14 #28
Grzegorz_: I just pointed out xenophobic nature of this article. That article is just following the global politics of Cameron and his administration when it comes to foreigners. The more bad press, the better. Then his theory about multicultural theory might be right. UK fascho style. ;)

♂ [Suspended]

Edited by: PolskiMoc Jun 23, 11, 11:24 #29

That statistic is NOT OF POLAND IN THE EU. RATHER EU IMMIGRANTS in the U.K causing crime

Poles are generally the largest EU immigrants to the U.K in recent years. So it is not shocking.

REAL POLISH Crime statistics are actually low

Crime in Poland is lower than in many countries of Western Europe. The 2005 surveys placed Poland below the European average, with victimisation rate lower than in Ireland, England and Wales, Iceland, Northern Ireland, Estonia, Netherlands, Denmark, Switzerland, Belgium, Sweden and Norway.[1] Newer studies (2009) report that the victimisation rate in Poland is constantly decreasing, and in 2008 Poland was 25th among 36 European countries.[2][3] Nevertheless, the 2004 report on security concerns of European Union residents indicates that most afraid of crime is the population of Poland (along with Greece), which does not at all correlate with the actual crime threat.

Car theft rate in Poland is about the European average and it is lower than in England and Wales, Portugal, Northern Ireland, Denmark, Bulgaria, Ireland, Spain, Netherlands, Iceland, Italy and Norway.[

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07 ♂	Jun 23, 11, 11:39 #30
PolskiMoc: Crime in Poland is lower than in many countries of Western Europe. No wonder when they are all out of Poland! ;)

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