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Polish drivers in the UK


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Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57
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Joined: Jul 3, 09  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		 Dec 19, 11, 22:11    #1
So i took a 200 round mile trip to Luton airport today and there was a major accident on the M25 around junction 22 causing tail backs right till junction 16, i managed to turn off at junction 17 to avoid hours of waiting. Once i turned off there was a Polish Tier (40 ft container truck) in a lay-by, with some big angry English dude chatting with him. As i drove on i saw that the Polish truck driver had hit the English guys car from behind, and thought nothing more of it.

On the way back however there was another tail back on the M25 between junctions 9 to 10, the sign said stranded vehicle, i was furious - two traffic jams on the M25 in one day on an already over congested road! anyway as i got closer there was another friggen Polish reg truck in the middle of the M25 with a dent in its side, ahead of that was a car being loaded up by the salvage vehicle. This driver had obviously pulled out on the motorway without realizing there was a car there and wham.

So in conclusion two idiot fcuk Polish drivers made my and God knows how many other driver lives quite stressful today.

In addition a couple of weeks ago some idiot cut me up on the inside when i was about to turn left on the motorway, i gave the horn and the customary one finger salute and as they actually drove by it was four shaven headed dudes in an old beat up Audi = 70% probability they were Poles i would say.
KingAthelstanThreads: 14
Posts: 225
Joined: Sep 13, 11 ♂ 		 Dec 19, 11, 22:15    #2
2 many poles in the UK
Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57
Posts: 5,478
Joined: Jul 3, 09  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		 Dec 19, 11, 22:33    #3
KingAthelstan:
2 many poles in the UK

But these are freight drivers with Polish reg vehicles, they dont live in the UK, they're just driving here, delivering stuff.
g60editionThreads: 12
Posts: 292
Joined: Jan 18, 09 ♂ 		 Dec 19, 11, 22:35    #4
Wroclaw Boy:
tail back on the M25 between junctions 9 to 10


What time was that?I was driving back from Orpington about 3ish all was fine apart from the poor weather.I was heading for the A3
Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57
Posts: 5,478
Joined: Jul 3, 09  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		 Dec 19, 11, 22:44    #5
g60edition:
What time was that?I was driving back from Orpington about 3ish all was fine apart from the poor weather

If you wanna get technical and in case anybody else on here was actually there it was between Junctions 13 and 12 (just checked on google maps) approx 3 miles short of the turn off for the M3, the time was about 17:30. A great big Polish plated 40 footer in the middle of the M25, with a dent in its side of course.
rozumiemnicThreads: 4
Posts: 1,021
Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀ 		 Dec 19, 11, 22:57    #6
Wroclaw Boy:
A great big Polish plated 40 footer in the middle of the M25, with a dent in its side of course.
it must be difficult for them though, driving on the 'wrong' side of the road etc etc.
Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57
Posts: 5,478
Joined: Jul 3, 09  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		 Dec 19, 11, 23:05    #7
rozumiemnic:
it must be difficult for them though, driving on the 'wrong' side of the road etc etc.

Essentially their blind spot is the same as ours its just that its the other side, the only argument is which one is more important - inside or outside lane? In the case i saw today he must have indicated and moved to quickly. Truck drivers use mirrors to switch lanes period. In Poland they are more aggressive with a kind of im coming out attitude, here its a "you come out when i say attitude" i dont care how big you are. The car could have braked but they had right of way, no doubt about it. The truck driver was at fault. You cant stand the heat stay outta the kitchen.

I drove on the wrong side of the road for 100,000 Miles and 20% of that in a jumbo van no complaints here.
Bernard  Jan 4, 12, 17:04    #8
How many English drivers crashed their vehicles that day? ever thought to check the stats?
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jan 4, 12, 17:07    #9
Bernard:
How many English drivers crashed their vehicles that day? ever thought to check the stats?

I wasn't aware that the British police kept statistics showing the nationalities of those who caused RTIs. Perhaps you could give a link to such stats?
sarahkThreads: -
Posts: 37
Joined: Jan 2, 12 ♀ 		 Jan 5, 12, 00:49    #10
Wroclaw Boy:
The car could have braked but they had right of way, no doubt about it.


So the driver's an idiot for not braking.
patrickThreads: 9
Posts: 120
Joined: Aug 3, 11 ♂ 		 Jan 5, 12, 04:33    #11
After living in Poland for eight years, I never came to the conclusion that they are bad drivers. A little on the edge maybe, but that seems to be related to young male drivers who have some kind of macho testosterone thing to prove.
teflcatThreads: 6
Posts: 1,076
Joined: May 29, 11 ♂ 		 Jan 5, 12, 10:18    #12
patrick:
young male drivers who have some kind of macho testosterone thing to prove.

Same everywhere. Worse in the UK, where anti-social behaviour is now expected, almost normal behaviour.
sarahk:
I never came to the conclusion that they are bad drivers

I agree. There are far worse drivers in the world. I'd put Polish drivers at about average in Europe. There are countries where red lights are seen as mere guidance.
Foreigner4Threads: 22
Posts: 1,990
Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 5, 12, 11:42    #13
Over the course of at least the last 5 years, Polish roads, which presumably are mostly inhabited by Polish drivers, have ranked in the top 5 most deadly around the world. To the best of my knowledge, the highest it reached was number 3.
Foreigner4Threads: 22
Posts: 1,990
Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 5, 12, 15:08    #14
sarahk:
So the driver's an idiot for not braking.

or the driver had the right of way and was not prepared to break at the moment the accident occurred. Think about it, are you always ready for some troglodyte to come out of nowhere and do something bone headed while you're driving? All I'm suggesting is that you reserve your judgment lest you know the full details of how the accident unfolded.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jan 5, 12, 16:38    #15
teflcat:
There are far worse drivers in the world.


I drove in Albania.





...every bit as terrifying as you can imagine. Rules? What rules?

Bribery still works nicely in that part of the world though - 10 Euro clears up all doubts in Montenegro.
teflcatThreads: 6
Posts: 1,076
Joined: May 29, 11 ♂ 		 Jan 5, 12, 17:12    #16
Foreigner4:
ranked in the top 5 most deadly around the world

I find that very hard to believe. Where do these stats come from?
In my experience driving in Poland is no more scary than driving in most other European countries. A friend of mine used to work in Libya. He did five weeks on, five weeks off, so he was on the Tripoli airport road often. When he told me that he'd seen a burning or burned out car every time he'd used that road I asked him if he weren't exaggerating a little. He assured me he meant every time.
I lived in Turkey for years, where the drivers behind you at a red light honk their horns because they see no reason to stop there unless there's another car crossing your path, and even then they're more likely to weave around it.
Foreigner4Threads: 22
Posts: 1,990
Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 5, 12, 18:12    #17
teflcat:
I find that very hard to believe.

I don't find that in the least bit surprising.
teflcat:
Where do these stats come from?

If I remembered I'd tell you but all you've got to do is try and prove yourself wrong. You've got the web right here so give it a whirl and see if you can do it.
teflcat:
In my experience driving in Poland is no more scary than driving in most other European countries.

I don't know what your driving experience is so I can't put much stock in that. However the number of deaths and injuries on the roads here beg to differ with your experience. Having said that, I can't recall if those stats were based on registered cars to road deaths and injury or based on population to road deaths and injuries or based on road deaths and injuries to overall accidental death and injury.
teflcat:
When he told me that he'd seen a burning or burned out car every time he'd used that road I asked him if he weren't exaggerating a little. He assured me he meant every time.

Where to begin? One can ask a lot regarding the official stats out Libya:
were based on reported deaths and injuries or from anecdotal 2nd hand stories of mayhem. I'm not discounting the story but the discrepancy may account for Libyan roads showing fewer deaths and injuries per capita from road accidents than what is reported.
You should ask if such accounts automatically mean there are a high number of deaths per number of cars on the road or simply indicate that when there are accidents, they are colossal.
You should ask if burning cars on the side of the road mean there must have been an accident or if they could be evidence that needed to be got rid of or if they were insurance related? I would guess it is probably not exclusive to one category. I've heard some wild stories regarding roads from those very same countries and was also surprised that Polish drivers placed 3rd in the world about 5 years ago (Russia, Slovakia, Poland, Turkey, Iran IIRC). I think it was last year I'd read in E.U. countries that Polish roads, and presumably drivers were 3rd most dangerous behind Lithuania and Slovakia.
One could second guess the veracity of the statistical information, which you're clearly ready to do. I'm not going to convince you of anything, you've formed your opinion and because I don't like you and you don't like me, there's nothing that I can put forth that will convince you of something you've already decided you don't agree with.
I have been driving here for some time and each year it seems safer, that doesn't mean it's safer, it could just indicate I'm more comfortable on the roads every year, I don't get lost anymore, I am used to it, etc. If I suddenly started driving in a new country, I may be a bit disoriented at first and that might skew my perception.
fin.
sarahkThreads: -
Posts: 37
Joined: Jan 2, 12 ♀ 		 Jan 5, 12, 18:50    #18
Foreigner4:
or the driver had the right of way and was not prepared to break at the moment the accident occurred. Think about it, are you always ready for some troglodyte to come out of nowhere and do something bone headed while you're driving? All I'm suggesting is that you reserve your judgment lest you know the full details of how the accident unfolded.


Reserving judgment -- You could say the same to everyone else posting on this page, including the person who started the thread. And yes, when driving, I am always prepared for some jerk to come whipping out of no where. That's what it means to be a prepared driver. I would hope that every person on the road is prepared for someone to be doing her makeup and not paying attention, or some other person to be texting and not looking at the moment. It's extremely careless to not pay enough attention to see someone coming out at the wrong spot and at least attempt to brake (I was quoting, if you notice, someone who said more or less that the driver could have braked, but didn't).

Also, regarding scary drivers. I have friends from China who live in the U.S. and were shocked when they came here and had to actually *follow* the rules of the road ;) I also found this link, but I don't know how accurate it is... they DO say they got these stats from WHO: http://autos.ca.msn.com/photos/gallery.aspx?cp-documentid=21970241&pag e=10
Foreigner4Threads: 22
Posts: 1,990
Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Foreigner4  Jan 5, 12, 22:33    #19
sarahk:
And yes, when driving, I am always prepared for some jerk to come whipping out of no where.

I'm not saying all responsibility for the accident in the original post is due to one driver but be honest with yourself:
when you're being overtaken are you always prepared for the other driver to mistime their lane change and clip your front end?
when you're driving through an intersection on a green light, with the flow of traffic, are you always prepared for another driver to come flying through?
when you're driving on a round about are you always prepared for someone to decide you're not really there after all?

If you've answered "yes" to any or all of the preceding questions then you're a liar. If you answered "no" then you lied about your preparedness or weren't honest in your initial assessment of your preparedness.

Sometimes drivers do weird unexpected stuff on the road pretending one can't be caught off guard by some dipsh*t drivers is giving benefit of the doubt to those who create these situations in the first place. I have no idea what your motivation would be to do that but that is the end result. Being attentive and being paranoid are not the same thing and this is coming from a very courteous and attentive driver (some of my wife's family love driving with me but the younger ones get annoyed that I make an effort to keep us all alive).
sarahkThreads: -
Posts: 37
Joined: Jan 2, 12 ♀ 		 Jan 6, 12, 00:15    #20
Foreigner4:
If you've answered "yes" to any or all of the preceding questions then you're a liar.


After having been knocked off the highway at 75mph by a semi that wasn't paying attention to me passing him and came into my lane, I did answer yes to all. So, call me a liar, but I'm a driver that doesn't trust the others ;)
Foreigner4Threads: 22
Posts: 1,990
Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Foreigner4  Jan 6, 12, 05:55    #21
Sorry to hear about that and glad to hear you're ok but having experienced my fill of similar situations I understand the unexpected is exactly that; thinking differently on the matter changes nothing.
Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57
Posts: 5,478
Joined: Jul 3, 09  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		 Jan 6, 12, 11:33    #22
sarahk:
(I was quoting, if you notice, someone who said more or less that the driver could have braked, but didn't).

Thats not what i meant actually, you went ahead and read a sentence then misinterpreted it to suit your agenda.

I said:
Wroclaw Boy:
The car could have braked but they had right of way
i didnt say the car "should have braked". In hindsight yes he/she should have broke, but i wasnt there, i merely saw the aftermath. A truck pulled into an outside lane whilst a car was occupying the space which the truck pulled into. Also the car was mid length along side the truck so may not have seen his indicators, just a big ass truck pulling towards him, in that situation the first thing any vehicle does is check the next outside lane to move over, if theres a car there then hit brakes.
teflcatThreads: 6
Posts: 1,076
Joined: May 29, 11 ♂ 		 Jan 6, 12, 18:09    #23
Foreigner4:
One could second guess the veracity of the statistical information, which you're clearly ready to do

I might if I knew where the stats came from.
Foreigner4:
you don't like me

Untrue. I have no feelings either way.
Foreigner4:
I don't like you

Why not?
teflcatThreads: 6
Posts: 1,076
Joined: May 29, 11 ♂ 		Edited by: teflcat  Jan 6, 12, 18:18    #24
www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/.../most-dangerous-roads
teflcatThreads: 6
Posts: 1,076
Joined: May 29, 11 ♂ 		 Jan 6, 12, 18:41    #25
The link I provided doesn't work, but here are a few stats from the World Health Organization.
Poland: reported deaths per 100,000: 14.7 Estimated real number of deaths/100,000: 14.7
Libya: 34.7 estimated: 40.5
Eritrea: 1.7 reported. Estimated: 48.4

102 countries have worse records than Poland.
Foreigner4Threads: 22
Posts: 1,990
Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂ 		 Jan 6, 12, 22:00    #26
teflcat:
I might if I knew where the stats came from.

i would hope anyone would question stats one way or the other.
teflcat:
Why not?

First impression.

But on this matter you have trumpeted the anecdotal stories you've heard about other places and then dismiss everyone else's experience or anecdotes regarding Polish roads because they do not support your opinion.

My observation is that one side claims this is the most dangerous place to drive in the world, while the other side claims it's safer than anywhere else in Europe. Few people seem ready to question the statistics, I think I've shown I'm willing to look at the issue from different perspectives. Although it's not black and white, even Poles admit there's an issue with taking liberties with the law while driving in Poland- that may work out if you're Polish and used to it but if you're not then it may throw you off. This topic doesn't keep popping up based on a rumour.
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jan 6, 12, 22:06    #27
Foreigner4:
even Poles admit there's an issue with taking liberties with the law while driving in Poland- that may work out if you're Polish and used to it but if you're not then it may throw you off.

Precisely. In the UK when I'm going round a blind bend I often get fairly close to the white line (so I can cut the corner and on the basis that anybody coming the other way will be getting close to the curb as they cut the corner). In Poland I make sure to take the corner wide (close to the curb), as you never know if somebody coming the is going to decide that a blind bend is the perfect place to overtake. Same thing with brows of hills: in the UK I'll maintain lane position but in Poland I instinctively move to the right.
teflcatThreads: 6
Posts: 1,076
Joined: May 29, 11 ♂ 		 Jan 6, 12, 22:15    #28
Foreigner4:
But on this matter you have trumpeted the anecdotal stories

Don't know about 'trumpeting'. I also provided WHO statistics in answer to your assertion that
Foreigner4:
Over the course of at least the last 5 years, Polish roads, which presumably are mostly inhabited by Polish drivers, have ranked in the top 5 most deadly around the world. To the best of my knowledge, the highest it reached was number 3.


I am, of course, aware that Polish driving skills could be improved.

Foreigner4:
then dismiss everyone else's experience or anecdotes regarding Polish roads because they do not support your opinion.

So some anecdotal evidence is fine but not mine.

Whatever. Keep safe on the road.
Foreigner4Threads: 22
Posts: 1,990
Joined: Nov 18, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Foreigner4  Jan 7, 12, 01:12    #29
teflcat:
Don't know about 'trumpeting'. I also provided WHO statistics in answer to your assertion that

there are other stats that have shown this place a more dangerous place to drive than you claim it to be. That isn't to say those stats are right and the others are wrong, it's just an example in which you accept one message and not the other but not because you've either decided your preference to one source over the other but rather to one message over the other. Or were you only able to find information which supported your opinion?
Perhaps you actually did analyze the method at which different stats were arrived upon but it doesn't appear you have done so beyond a cursory measure- it leaves the impression you made up your mind on the matter before acknowledging you might be wrong. And I write might and not are because I genuinely would assume (based on here say) Poland must be a safer place to drive than Libya and must have been for more than a couple years but acknowledge I haven't done my homework on it so I could be wrong. And at the same time I am at least skeptical of suggestions that this is a "safe" place to drive because people do nutty sh*t on the roads here and everybody knows about it except you.

teflcat:
So some anecdotal evidence is fine but not mine.

No. If you accept one person's anecdotes then on what basis do you dismiss everyone else's? My experiences with dudes with shaved heads in this country has been "never a problem and if there was one, we'd know what has to be done and that's that." However I should at least acknowledge that others have had different or opposite experiences and respect that their experiences are just as valid as mine and perhaps if enough people say they've experienced the opposite of what I have, then, I should clue in that for whatever reason my experience isn't the norm. Your problem seems to be that you can't accept there's a possibility your experiences haven't been shared by anyone who comments contrary to what you have to say on the matter.
teflcatThreads: 6
Posts: 1,076
Joined: May 29, 11 ♂ 		 Jan 7, 12, 10:25    #30
This is absurd. Where have I discounted other people's experience. Please quote me. The stats I used were from the World Health Organization. Is this not a reputable body. Even if you could find other research which suggests other figures, they are highly unlikely to place Poland in the top five most dangerous countries in the world.
You have accused me of something I'm not guilty of. It's not a big thread, so quote where I have
Foreigner4:
dismiss[ed] everyone else's
anecdotal evidence or experience.

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