Polish and English law on child access?

MEMBER ♀

Jan 7, 12, 00:14 #1

hope i have posted this under right section. my polish friend has been divorced for 18 months. he lives in england, as does his ex- wife. they both have new partners and have 3 children together. the divorce was granted in poland and he always pays maintenance. the polish court gave him access to his children every other weekend, and to have his children every other xmas. my friend went to his ex- wifes house to collect his children on xmas day.she refused. my friend doesnt speak english, so it was very hard for me to understand, but he wanted me to go to the police station so all this could be documented as proof that she had denied him access.apparently(after speaking to other friends,this is normal in poland) i had to explain that at the time it would be pointless going to a police station as they wouldnt be able to do anything. they would simply suggest going back to court.however what does he do now? does he have to go back to court in poland because the divorce conditions were granted there? any help would be appreciated, and this has been an amicable divorce before this happened.

♂ [Suspended]

Jan 7, 12, 00:28 #2

To be frank, your friend may well have more chance of getting the British police to enforce a Polish court order than he'd have with the Polish police.

The best thing to do is to speak to the ex wife and try to work out what the problem is and how to best sort it out. If that fails, try again. If it fails again, try the citizens' advice bureau. If they can't help, it's lawyer time.

One thing, your friend does always and only pay his child support payments by bank transfer, doesn't he?

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 7, 12, 00:44 #3
Harry: One thing, your friend does always and only pay his child support payments by bank transfer, doesn't he? Golden rule not only in the UK, but also in Poland. I've lost count of the amount of times I've seen people online say how they were giving money in cash, and how the court didn't recognise it.

MEMBER ♀

Jan 7, 12, 00:52 #4

Harry:

One thing, your friend does always and only pay his child support payments by bank transfer, doesn't he?

thanks for help harry, everything goes through the bank, so no problem there. its possible to get the british police to enforce a polish court order? didnt know this at all, and i just want to help him. i got this phone call on xmas day, and was in middle of cooking dinner. he didnt realise that xmas day is like wigilia for anglicy.he hasnt phoned since, so i dont know if he has or hasnt seen his children since. i just feel very sorry for him not understanding the language,and feel i will struggle trying to help as my polish is not great. citizens advice are good, but problem is my friend never knows when he will get day off from work, so even getting him there will be a problem,even though they have translaters.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 7, 12, 01:10 #5
Pam, let me get back to you tomorrow when I'm on a proper computer and not just my phone, might also be able to get hold of a Polish lawyer then too.

pamThreads: 22 Posts: 463 Joined: Oct 11, 11 MEMBER ♀	Jan 7, 12, 01:40 #6
Harry: Pam, let me get back to you tomorrow when I'm on a proper computer and not just my phone, might also be able to get hold of a Polish lawyer then too. that would be great. thanks a lot.

♂

Jan 7, 12, 04:06 #7

pam:

my friend went to his ex- wifes house to collect his children on xmas day.she refused.

My friend Jim was devastated when he went to his ex's home to pick up his boy. They were to have a father/son and family Thanksgiving which was planned beforehand. Seems his ex took the kid to Wisconsin. While there, she told the boy that his father didn't love him. I would look into any such possible shenanigans in your friend's case. Unfortunately, such 'child alienation' is much too common.

♂

Edited by: gumishu Jan 7, 12, 10:47 #8

pam:

i had to explain that at the time it would be pointless going to a police station as they wouldnt be able to do anything.

in Poland you call the police to all such situations (where you can't excerise your rights) for them to produce an official report about it (more than to enforce the law) - otherwise you would need 2 or 3 witnesses before the court (this is not easy to make people testify for you for various reasons) - in this case no witnesses that could testify before a Polish court (your friend will be appealing to a Polish court if more of such situations happen) - the Polish police are quite accustomed to such case and know why such a report is needed and what to state in such a report - have no idea what is it like with the British police (I mean if they customarily produce such reports (of which the caller should get a copy) and if they ever turn up to such scenes) -
- the thing why your friend never called you after that is he didn't need any other immediate assistance - if the situation on the Christmas day has not been documented the matter is gone and to be altogether forgotten from the Polish legal point of view (or rather from the usual Polish court practice) - he may need some help if the situation repeats itself

the other reason why he perhaps wanted the police to come to the scene is he may have figured it might have influenced his ex to let the kids go and spend the day with their dad

♂

Jan 7, 12, 11:27 #9

You do not need a Polish Lawyer. You will be wasting your money.

This comes under Brussels II agreement. A foreign court must enforce the decision made by the court in Poland.

Go to a UK solicitor they will get the order enforced in a UK court. The UK courts always abide by this, unlike the Polish courts.

If you want further information contact me by PM. It may be pertinent to do this as this man needs to protect his position NOW. I am not a solicitor but I have a lot of personal experience in this field.

MEMBER ♀

Jan 7, 12, 13:16 #10

gumishu:

other reason why he perhaps wanted the police to come to the scene is he may have figured it might have influenced his ex to let the kids go and spend the day with their dad

am sure that is exactly what he wanted, but police in uk simply wouldnt do this,they would not consider it to be important unless maybe there had been a history of violence etc(not the case) i know that if i had taken him to the police station they would have told him to discuss this further with ex-wife,and failing any agreement to consult a solicitor.(not an option, far too expensive and would probably make situation worse)

♂

Jan 7, 12, 13:41 #11

pam:

am sure that is exactly what he wanted, but police in uk simply wouldnt do this,they would not consider it to be important unless maybe there had been a history of violence etc(not the case) i know that if i had taken him to the police station they would have told him to discuss this further with ex-wife,and failing any agreement to consult a solicitor.(not an option, far too expensive and would probably make situation worse)

Pam it is a civil matter. That is why. You would get the same response in Poland without the explanation.

It's not that expensive and if he is on a low income, he may get it for free. You cannot do anything from Poland as you are not in Polands juristiction. You can only enforce the court order through the UK courts. I can give you the contact number of a Polish Solicitor working in the UK who is very experienced in these matters. I'm sure she would give basic advise over the phone. There are other implications with this that are far more worrying than you imagine.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 7, 12, 13:45 #12
Good work Ant63. Thanks for posting that.

pamThreads: 22 Posts: 463 Joined: Oct 11, 11 MEMBER ♀	Jan 7, 12, 22:31 #13
Ant63: It's not that expensive and if he is on a low income, he may get it for free. he wont get it for free. he is on minimum wage, but earns too much for legal aid as he works long hours. need to get hold of him first though to update him on information. at least its good news that it can be enforced by a uk court if what you are saying is correct. thanks very much for help :)

Ant63Threads: 5 Posts: 121 Joined: Mar 18, 11 ♂	Jan 7, 12, 23:40 #14
You should pm me for the number I offered. It's for his benefit not mine. It's only going to cost a call.

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