Polish and Irish people are related?

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Jan 12, 11, 23:26 #1

i have lived in poland (lublin) and spent some time in ireland.
i find both peoples to be great and generous.
i think that they are related (dna?) as both love:
literature, music, church, and are tops when it comes to horses and alcohol.
i have not met nicer people than the poles and irish.
does anyone agree that these people are dna related?
i think both are slavic, and my last argument for this is the way the english treat both.
i mean to make no one mad, as i love both people.

Des EssientesThreads: 11 Posts: 2,318 Joined: Feb 6, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	Jan 13, 11, 02:09 #2
jim1937: i think both are slavic The Irish are not Slavic but Celtic. There may have been Celts in ancient Poland that went West hence the both Poland and Spain have a region called Galicia.

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Edited by: strzyga Jan 13, 11, 02:39 #3

jim1937:

does anyone agree that these people are dna related?i think both are slavic

AFAIR there was a thread somewhere on this forum claiming that the Irish are actually a long-lost Slavic tribe, so you're not alone in your views :)

My personal belief is that the Slavs and the Celts must have been genetically related once.

Or maybe it's just similar history as the reason for developing similar traits.

George8600Threads: 20 Posts: 1,114 Joined: Feb 19, 09 ♂	Jan 13, 11, 02:49 #4
jim1937: as both love: literature, music, church, and are tops when it comes to horses and alcohol. what do any of these things have to do with DNA?

irishlodzThreads: 2 Posts: 115 Joined: Oct 19, 09 ♂	Jan 13, 11, 11:41 #5
unfortunately read somewhere that there is as much Saxon DNA in modern Irish as Celt.

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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 13, 11, 11:45 #6

jim1937:

i think that they are related (dna?) as both love:

Erm....don't mix up genetics and culture ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_people

...
The frequency of Y-DNA haplogroup R1b (the most common haplogroup in Europe) is highest in the populations of Atlantic Europe and, due to European emigration, in North America, South America, and Australia.
In Ireland and the Basque Country its frequency exceeds 90% and approaches 100% in Western Ireland.[17] The incidence of R1b is 70% or more in parts of northern and western England, northern Iberia, western France, Wales and Scotland. R1b's incidence declines gradually with distance from these areas but it is still common across the central areas of Europe.
R1b is the most frequent haplogroup in Germany, and is common in southern Scandinavia and in Italy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_people

...
Polish people show the characteristic R1a genes of a common Paleolithic male ancestorship at a frequency of 55.9-56.4%. This lineage includes haplotype Eu19 distinguished by M17 lineage. Its frequency increases eastward from south-western France and reaches a maximum in Poland, Hungary, and west Ukraine

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Edited by: SeanBM Jan 13, 11, 12:24 #7

jim1937:

does anyone agree that these people are dna related?

Although I do not agree with your DNA theory, I myself am Irish and live in Poland.

You may find this thread interesting: The Celts in Poland..

jim1937:

literature, music, church, and are tops when it comes to horses and alcohol.

A few things in Irish/Polish history have made us very similar, in my opinion.
Being underdogs and having had a rough history, coupled along with Catholicism, has made us more similar in many ways, sense of humour, sense of right and wrong, guilt and perspective.

The number one difference between Ireland and Poland is that Poland experienced communism, which has had a great effect here.

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Edited by: milky Jan 13, 11, 12:58 #8

SeanBM:

The number one difference between Ireland and Poland is that Poland experienced communism, which has had a great effect here.

Due to Penal laws/famine etc etc etc etc and a general hatred-disregard for the Irish,the Irish over-identifid with the Roman catholic church(which was itself seen as alien by the Celtic/Christians). The Polish also over-identified with the church, due to Godless communism. I think modernity alone,would have seriously sliced the power of the church in Poland decades ago. Poland and Ireland have this in common,imperialism kept the church strong, long past its sell by date.

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Edited by: SeanBM Jan 13, 11, 13:15 #9

milky:

Poland and Ireland have this in common,imperialism kept the church strong, long past its sell by date.

Good point, I would like to add something to it:

Ireland was ruled by the church, like Poland it was galvanised simply by not being part of the occupational entity but there is and was a separation of church and state in Poland that is really only starting in the last 25 years in Ireland (and that might be even pushing it).
What doesn't help is Ireland making a new blasphemy law last year amid sexual misconduct accusations within the church and the church telling people they will ''deal with it'', as if they are above the law.
Now when I return to Ireland, I find people generally more conservative than Poles.
These days more people attend mass in Poland than Ireland but the centuries have had a lasting effect.

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Edited by: Teffle Jan 13, 11, 13:24 #10

SeanBM:

Now when I return to Ireland, I find people generally more conservative than Poles.

Wow - I'm surprised at that. Depends on the region though I suppose. E.g. someone in a village in Roscommon is likely to be more traditional or conservative than someone from Gdansk.

Conservative in what way - can you give examples?

But I have to say (and I roughly agree with the OP by the way in terms of an affinity if not literally shared DNA) that based on the Poles I have met, and their families, that Poles are more conservative on average.

milkyThreads: 10 Posts: 1,229 Joined: Oct 26, 09 ♀	Jan 13, 11, 13:40 #11
SeanBM: last 25 years in Ireland Not even that long,remember how hard it was to get a condum. A large proportion are conservative still in Ireland as their "present" reactionary contempt for the church is quite shallow, and their newly acquired liberalism is NOT deep seated, but only lip service. Although I would worry about the church power in Poland, much more so than in Ireland.

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Edited by: SeanBM Jan 13, 11, 13:42 #12

Teffle:

Wow - I'm surprised at that. Depends on the region though I suppose.

The thing about the cross in front of the parliament here and the general media coverage of religious issues are a minority. Most Poles are Catholic but see a separation between church and state, that's what got the cross here so much attention and then the media spin did the rest.
But how religion is above the law in Ireland does not exist here, at least not to my knowledge.
And people's general attitude here is less conservative, I remember the outrage when the Virgin mega store sold condoms, when there was outrage over an AIDs information advertisement, divorce was illegal, Monthy Python's 'life of Brian' was banned in Ireland for years, for no porn in Ireland and this continues in a million different nuances till this day, Catholic schools (what % are anything else?), uniforms, the Church wanting to "deal with the sexual assault charges themselves". I am not saying anything about the strength of people's religious beliefs just that Ireland did not and still doesn't truly separate church from state.

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Edited by: Teffle Jan 13, 11, 13:57 #13

SeanBM:

Catholic schools (what % are anything else?), uniforms, the Church wanting to "deal with the sexual assault charges themselves".

Is any catholic country really much different?

As regards church/state, don't forget, Irish media is one of the most free in the world - in comparison, Polish media is fairly restricted. Anything and everything negative about the church in Ireland will be publicised but this is not necessarily the case in Poland.

Another thing is, what it says on paper and what happens in practice is often very different in Ireland e.g. in a supposedly traditional/conservative country we had female presidents, openly gay politicians etc.

I would be surprised if there wasn't the same degree of chuch influence in Polish politics - wasn't there something recently about bishops attempting to influence national governement?

According to the Poles I know, outside of the cities, in Poland the local priest is still a quite powerful figure and regularly "meddles" in local politics, family life etc.

In fact come to think of it, for at least a few of the Poles I know personally, "conservative" or "traditional" would be regarded as badges of honour really - "liberal" is a bit of a dirty word for them. Be honest, you can see it often on this very site!

This attitude would be in direct contrast to the majority of Irish people I know.

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Edited by: SeanBM Jan 13, 11, 14:08 #14

Teffle:

Is any catholic country really much different?

As regards to separation between church and state, I think so, also it was the church that educated Ireland, for the most part.

Teffle:

e.g. in a supposedly traditional/conservative country we had female presidents, openly gay politicians etc

Communism didn't persecute women as much as Ireland did, they were part of the work force here. So there has been no real sexual revolution here the way it is in Ireland.
I would like to stress my use of the words "as much", women here are still paid less and hold lower positions of power but lets face it, an Irish president is more like a diplomat, she doesn't hold any real power, ok to veto but has she ever used it?
You have a point with gay politicians here though, I can't see it being so widely excepted here for a long time yet.

Teffle:

wasn't there something recently about bishops attempting to influence national governement?

Attempting to influence is a far stretch from Ireland's Government letting the church deal with the sexual assault allegations by themselves.

Teffle:

According to the Poles I know, outside of the cities, in Poland the local priest is still a quite powerful figure and regularly "meddles" in local politics, family life etc.

You bet, the sheer attendance rate here has a substantial effect on people, I just find now, Irish people more conservative.

Teffle:

This attitude would be in direct contrast to the majority of Irish people I know.

But the church can introduce a Blasphemy law in ireland, without protest.

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Jan 13, 11, 14:39 #15

seanBM:

Attempting to influence is a far stretch from Ireland's Government letting the church deal with the sexual assault allegations by themselves.

But it's not a case of "letting" though - it's more just lazy and ineffectual governement don't you think? It's not like the governemnt - and certainly not the people - are simply OK with it.

There have been lobbies to e.g. have the papal nuncio expelled and the vatican regarded as a hostile state in relation to all of this. Unlikely to happen of course, but it's not a situation that has been just "accepted"

SeanBM:

But the church can introduce a Blasphemy law in ireland, without protest

Oh I know. It's a joke. But in reality, what will happen?

I know it's not the way to look at it, it's the principle, but as an illustration, to be a godparent in a church christening in Ireland it's as easy as buying bread - try it in Poland and it's a different story altogether. The same proof of good character, references, solemnity theoretically is supposed to be the same in Ireland but it just isn't.

That's kind of my point - in theory certain conservatism applies, in practice it's anything goes.

Anyway, sorry a bit of a thread hijack.

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Jan 13, 11, 14:53 #16

Teffle:

Oh I know. It's a joke. But in reality, what will happen?

Now Pakistan and a group of Islamic states (the Organization of Islamic Conference, or "OIC") is using the language of the Irish blasphemy law to press the UN Ad Hoc Committee on the Elaboration of Complementary Standards to recognize the so-called "defamation of religions" as a new normative principle of international law.

From here

Teffle:

to be a godparent in a church

I get what you mean, but in church a godparent is supposed to look after the child's spiritual life, it makes sense that a church would want new members whereas I am talking about the church making civil laws.
I am not saying that Poland is a very liberal country and you have some good points, Poland is more conservative than Ireland on certain issues, I just like the church being out of parliament.

I think part of the difference is, the church ruled Ireland, it was absolutely powerful and therefore corrupt even during the occupation, whereas the church in Poland was a passive resistant freedom against communism, priest were killed and spoke for the people that was their power.

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Jan 13, 11, 15:09 #17

Now Pakistan and a group of Islamic states (the Organization of Islamic Conference, or "OIC") is using the language of the Irish blasphemy law to press the UN Ad Hoc Committee on the Elaboration of Complementary Standards to recognize the so-called "defamation of religions" as a new normative principle of international law.

Ah c'mon - twisted interpretations of anything and everything have been used to justify all and sundry since the beginning of time!

SeanBM:

I just like the church being out of parliament.

As do I - and as does everyone I know.

Maybe one difference too is that church/state are linked in Ireland, theoretically, but in practice, not a lot of influence is exerted or is successful these days. Whereas in Poland, theorectically, church and state are separate but in practice the church has a disproportionate amount of power and influence?

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Jan 13, 11, 15:51 #18

jim1937:

i think both are slavic, and my last arguement for this is the way the english treat both.

Muppet,when did the english massacre any Polish towns,allow famine to spread etc in Poland? What a plum....

Des Essientes:

The Irish are not Slavic but Celtic.

Nope,there is no such thing as Celtic dna,the Celts were a lifestyle not a tribe....anyhoo,as someone else pointed out,there is as much Saxon,Viking,"english" DNA in ireland as there is traces of older types of irishmen.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Edited by: PennBoy Jan 13, 11, 15:54 #19
jim1937: poland (lublin) Love that city jim1937: i find both peoples to be great and generous. i think that they are related (dna?) as both love Well according to stats Irish people are the most liked by Poles so there must be something to it. http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/1,80708,4495550.html

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Edited by: SeanBM Jan 13, 11, 15:55 #20

Teffle:

Ah c'mon

It's not just about that, it is a show of strength by the church, that when all the curruption came out about the church a Blesphamy law gets passed.

Teffle:

Whereas in Poland, theorectically, church and state are separate but in practice the church has a disproportionate amount of power and influence?

I can't think of any influence the government has from the church here unlike Ireland's long history.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Jan 13, 11, 16:09 #21
SeanBM: I can't think of any influence the government has from the church here unlike Ireland's long history. Maybe not historically but google "church influence in Polish politics" and have a look.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Edited by: Teffle Jan 14, 11, 14:47 #22
Anyway, sorry again jim1937 - I'll leave the tangent at that. jim1937: literature, music, church, and are tops when it comes to horses and alcohol. Didn't realise there was a horse thing with the Polish - is there?

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 ♂ [Moderator]	Edited by: Wroclaw Jan 14, 11, 15:39 #23
Teffle: is there? some Polish horses (for certain events) are seen as among the best in the world. the horse and carriage events i think.

TeffleThreads: 28 Posts: 2,105 Joined: Aug 26, 10 ♂	Jan 14, 11, 16:48 #24
Oh, OK thanks. Jim has probably lost interest though : (

PaulinaThreads: 2 Posts: 561 Joined: Jan 31, 08 ♀	Jan 14, 11, 18:18 #25
Wroclaw: some Polish horses (for certain events) are seen as among the best in the world. I think it's probably about Polish Arabian horses? http://www.money.pl/gospodarka/wiadomosci/artykul/polskie;araby;warte; miliony,218,0,258778.html It's written in the article they're called "Pure Polish" lol http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-257295

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Edited by: Krynski Jan 16, 11, 07:21 #26

milky:

Due to Penal laws/famine etc etc etc etc and a general hatred-disregard for the Irish,the Irish over-identifid with the Roman catholic church(which was itself seen as alien by the Celtic/Christians). The Polish also over-identified with the church, due to Godless communism. I think modernity alone,would have seriously sliced the power of the church in Poland decades ago. Poland and Ireland have this in common,imperialism kept the church strong, long past its sell by date.

Very true remarks - great remarks, milky. I would add that Irish nationalism closely resembles our Polish one in that it has the deep-rooted notion of victimhood, some very tender spots connected with historical memory. And we are both very tough peoples - peoples one can kill but never defeat.

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Jan 16, 11, 09:43 #27

Krynski:

Very true remarks - great remarks, milky. I would add that Irish nationalism closely resembles our Polish one in that it has the deep-rooted notion of victimhood, some very tender spots connected with historical memory. And we are both very tough peoples - peoples one can kill but never defeat.

You are right. There are a lot of similarities between the Irish and the Polish. They are both tough Catholics who used the Catholic church as a source of strength when they were oppressed.

I like the Irish.

irishlodzThreads: 2 Posts: 115 Joined: Oct 19, 09 ♂	Jan 16, 11, 11:45 #28
SeanBM: I can't think of any influence the government has from the church here unlike Ireland's long history. Little Christmas (on Jan 7th) now a bank holiday in Poland from this year. makes no sense at all except church got a petition together and Govt too frightened to reject it. .

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Edited by: hague1cmaeron Jan 16, 11, 11:57 #29

SeanBM:

Now when I return to Ireland, I find people generally more conservative than Poles.

Really? I find that hard to believe.

Teffle:

As regards church/state, don't forget, Irish media is one of the most free in the world - in comparison, Polish media is fairly restricted. Anything and everything negative about the church in Ireland will be publicised but this is not necessarily the case in Poland.

That is BS

hague1cmaeronThreads: 21 Posts: 1,652 Joined: Mar 30, 10 ♂	Edited by: hague1cmaeron Jan 16, 11, 12:20 #30
Teffle: Didn't realise there was a horse thing with the Polish - is there? It's not only the Polish and Irish, I am sure the Brits love their horses as well, and as far as competing in show jumping etc. the Germans win for the most part.

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