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Polish teenager stabbed to death outside London tube station


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AdamKadmonThreads: 38
Posts: 1,120
Joined: Apr 23, 10 ♂ 		 May 10, 10, 08:34    #1
A 19-year-old boy stabbed to death outside a Tube station has become the eighth teenage killing in London in the past six weeks.
peterwegThreads: 35
Posts: 1,997
Joined: Feb 16, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: peterweg  May 10, 10, 09:29    #2
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1275573/Police-study-CCTV-man- 19-stabbed-death-Tube-station.html

Says it was a random attack, not know to the victim.

The girlfriend made the fatal mistake of getting into a discussion with a psycho.

It really pisses me off that some women think talking to a nutter because she thinks 'he has no right to speak to me like that' is going to get the men standing next to her into serious trouble.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 May 10, 10, 10:43    #3
Very true, peterweg. Sb so far gone on drugs may be insane and judged by the 'total alienation of reason' standard, or the McNaughton Rules in England.

The problem is that there are too many 'pyskowata' types here and a mouth can get you in big trouble. Anyone knows that you walk away. In Scotland, you are under an obligation to run away, an obligation that doesn't exist in English Law. Trying to reason with a person not open to reason is just stupid!
mark007Threads: 1
Posts: 74
Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ 		 May 10, 10, 11:03    #4
Very sad, the Nanny state has a lot to answer for with all this care in the community/human rights crap!; sometimes I feel it goes too far down the line and doesn't give a toss for the majority or common sense!!
shushThreads: 5
Posts: 552
Joined: Dec 20, 09 ♀ 		 May 10, 10, 11:07    #5
I guess people just cant help themselves - they have to answer and argue. And it is the worst solution. Ignore morons/idiots!
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 May 10, 10, 11:07    #6
What do you mean, mark? How does care in the community directly apply to this case of a lunatic stabbing sb? This human rights 'crap' is necessary in civilised societies and it is up to people to observe them.
mark007Threads: 1
Posts: 74
Joined: Jan 19, 09 ♂ 		 May 10, 10, 11:15    #7
Sometimes they let people back into the community when they should be locked up, this looney could be one of them! and as for human rights, I do think it's a good thing; but sometimes the law bends over backwards and forgets about common sense! Also I feel that the law seem more worried about protecting the rights of a criminal over that of the victim themselves! Maybe I shouldn't generalize so much! but I have read, witnessed and heard many such cases whilst living in London!
shushThreads: 5
Posts: 552
Joined: Dec 20, 09 ♀ 		 May 10, 10, 11:40    #8
mark007:
Also I feel that the law seem more worried about protecting the rights of a criminal over that of the victim themselves! Maybe I shouldn't generalize so much! but I have read, witnessed and heard many such cases whilst living in London!


Yes, that's right. There was recently a case of a guy who was taken to the court because he stabbed one burglar in his home! I do not know what he meant to do - politely ask the thug to go away from his house? If faced with such thing in own house no one should be tried afterwards - it was the burlgar's fault to go to the house in the first place and everyone should have the right to protect themselves and their family without being worried that they may be put to jail because the life of thugs are more important and precious than lives of normal people. Imagine the terror the guy had to go through! It will be long way for him to recover after the burglary (who can feel safe in his own house after such a thing happen?) and after facing a judge. I do not know which one is more damaging.
Mister HThreads: 11
Posts: 845
Joined: Jan 4, 08 ♂ 		 May 10, 10, 11:42    #9
Seanus:
What do you mean, mark? How does care in the community directly apply to this case of a lunatic stabbing sb? This human rights 'crap' is necessary in civilised societies and it is up to people to observe them.


And what do you do when they don't observe them ? Ok, we don't know what the background is of the murderer, but it's certainly plausible that he was just another psychopath that should have been locked up for the safety of everyone (including his own).

If he's the sort of person that carries a knife and picks fights with others for no real reason then the human rights of the rest of us should come first. His go out the window the moment he starts to carry a knife.

mark007:
Also I feel that the law seem more worried about protecting the rights of a criminal over that of the victim themselves!


It definitely has gone far too far in the wrong direction.

The problem is that the authorities simply seem to refuse to face up to some of the realities ie. you only have to look at the list of victims in the Telegraph article to see that a lot of this kind of problem comes from one section of society.

It's time to start handing out some really tough penalties and dealing with some of the uncomfortable truths.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 May 10, 10, 12:18    #10
Rehabilitation should take place behind closed doors, that's true. People should monitor them the whole time and society itself should not be the guinea pig for that 'reintroduction' experiment.

Britain is that way, it has maintained a more leftist approach to crime. Although I'm not a fan of the solutions of the right, they would send out a clearer message to would-be criminals.

In Scotland, the 1993 clampdown on knife crime was largely efficacious but it needs more than that to sustain a low crime culture.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 May 10, 10, 12:35    #11
It must be that then ;) ;)

Now, any comments? I can see it happening more and more as discontent sinks in. London is frighteningly expensive and social unrest is in evidence in many places. There are loonies everywhere and London will be a hotbed for them.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 May 10, 10, 13:33    #12
Then you fail to understand a large part of the humanities, MC. It touches Sociology, Psychology, Law and even Psychiatry. These are but 4. Peterweg raised a good point.

Mister H, I merely wanted to say that it is up to the individual to be cognisant of their existence but they go out of the window when a loonie enters the equation. That was my beef about academia, they didn't look at reality on the ground enough and the practicalities. They provide all these rules about how you should act but it's quite different when you are actually in that situation.
jamesams1357Threads: -
Posts: 48
Joined: Jun 29, 09 ♂ 		 May 10, 10, 13:44    #13
who stabed him
MareGaeaThreads: 45
Posts: 5,527
Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂ 		 May 10, 10, 13:51    #14
Incidents like this will happen. The girl indeed should not have entered a discussion with scum like that. You just walk away from them. Problem is, what do you do with these ppl? Ok, this one is going to jail or a psychiatric institution, but what if it happens again with some other idiot? I mean, how can you tell if somebody is psychotic? I agree that those ppl shouldn't be out on the street, but if you lock one away for treatment and he indicates over a period of time that he/she has been cured, what else can the psychiatric workers do than the let them go? And you can blame the psychiatric institution or the workers there for letting them out on the streets again when it has turned out they lied (and they are sometimes very good liars) and abuse sb or even worse, but that's too easy. That's the problem with psychiatric patients. They're unpredictable and they sometimes pose a threat to society, but how can you tell? Only after sth like this happened. Not any earlier. They in some cases are ticking timebombs, but then again, how do your recognize them? Is the moaning idiot on the corner going to rip you into shreds the moment you're not looking? Who knows?
That's the shytty thing with ppl like that: they can't be let out in the open, but you can't lock them away forever as many "cry-wolfers" tend to think in an immediate reaction, because then those same "cry-wolfers" are complaining how much psychiatric help costs us.
But it's not only the raging idiot or the crazed junkie, it's also the hooligan, the neanderthaler who is looking for a fight where ever he goes. You can recognize those, though: they are usually big, talk in one-syllabel words and have an agressive look in their face. I hate those ppl and usually stay away as far from them as I can, but sometimes you just can't avoid them and when things go wrong, well, hope for the best. And unfortunately I have to say that here in Dublin there are a shyteload of those guys. Psychopatics, who may not kill, but only are going out to start fights. You got them everywhere.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)
peterwegThreads: 35
Posts: 1,997
Joined: Feb 16, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: peterweg  May 10, 10, 14:10    #15
Yusuf Gumay, 30, who owns a take-away shop opposite the Tube station, saw the stabbing.
He said there was a confrontation between the attacker and the teenager after a girl ran after the assailant and tried to kick him. At that point the knifeman turned and stabbed the victim in the side. Mr Gumay said he ran across the road to help the victim.
ran across the road to help the victim.

“He was bleeding a lot, so I put pressure on the wound. It must have been a very big knife as the gash was about three inches wide. It is wrong to carry a knife, but if the girl had just walked off this wouldn't have happened.”

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23832031-tributes-paid- to-teenager-stabbed-to-death-outside-tube.do
AmathystThreads: 30
Posts: 3,968
Joined: Nov 10, 06  Pictures: 2 ♀ 		 May 10, 10, 14:12    #16
mark007:
Sometimes they let people back into the community when they should be locked up,


It does not state he had mental illness and as for care in the community it's not perfect, but it works "most" of the time - thank labour, they sold off land to super markets which were once mental health facilities.

Seanus:
The problem is that there are too many 'pyskowata' types here and a mouth can get you in big trouble.


I think telling some one fcuk off is acceptable if you're being mythered..they tired to ignore him, but as the article states, he continued to pester and then he asaulted her! FFS it wasnt her fault like you and pw are trying to make out!

mark007:
Nanny state has a lot to answer for with all this care in the community/human rights crap


Do you suggest we do away with human rights policies? Most Brits dont really get to use the "human rights" card...its other that take advantage of it.

AdamKadmon:
has become the eighth teenage killing in London in the past six weeks.


Thats just London, there have been about 4 in Manchester over the past couple weeks..
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 May 10, 10, 14:52    #17
Amathyst, I'm not taken by the 'defend the woman' approach the whole time. Peterweg's point was sound, some women have got the art of getting their bloke in trouble down to a tee. I don't buy it, sorry!
MareGaeaThreads: 45
Posts: 5,527
Joined: Feb 6, 08 ♂ 		 May 10, 10, 14:57    #18
Defend women? Yeah right. If a woman gets herself into trouble, she can try and get herself out of it by herself. Unless the situation gets really dangerous. Women are emancipated nowadays, so when they have a big mouth towards other ppl, they should bear the consequences themselves. Emancipation is fine with me, but it's not only the nice parts. Heck, how many times I have gotten into trouble because of a girl who's mouth was too big for her ears...Not again, sorry :)

It's sth of the past and since women want to be equal, well, this is part of being equal ;)

>^..^<

M-G (why would sb get stabbed to death for sb else? A few tears and then they go along their merry ways? Doesn't bring the boy back, you know)
jamesams1357Threads: -
Posts: 48
Joined: Jun 29, 09 ♂ 		 May 10, 10, 14:58    #19
RIP homie **** there mayate perra
time meansThreads: 9
Posts: 2,306
Joined: Apr 21, 08  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 May 10, 10, 15:52    #20
Mister H:
lot of this kind of problem comes from one section of society


And it will be to nobodys surprise that from which section of society the murderer comes from.
SouthMancPolakThreads: 2
Posts: 202
Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂ 		 May 10, 10, 23:26    #21
time means:
And it will be to nobodys surprise that from which section of society the murderer comes from.


Yeah, I don't think we'll ever need an "Operation Trójz±b" to investigate "gun crime in the Polish community!

Seanus:
The problem is that there are too many 'pyskowata' types here and a mouth can get you in big trouble. Anyone knows that you walk away. In Scotland, you are under an obligation to run away, an obligation that doesn't exist in English Law. Trying to reason with a person not open to reason is just stupid!


if you had ever lived in London during the past 10 years or so, you would realise that you can get "shanked" or "capped" just for bumping into someone accidentally on a moving bus, because no-one is allowed to get away with "disrespecting" the kind of morons who carry out this crime like that. The irony is, those who run up their mouth are the ones who tend to carry out these crimes, not the victims.
L0LLIP0PThreads: 1
Posts: 1
Joined: May 10, 10 ♀ 		 May 10, 10, 23:54    #22
that's very sad. I cannot express my grief. RIP and god bless their families
RevokeNiceThreads: 21
Posts: 2,767
Joined: Jun 20, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 May 11, 10, 00:00    #23
time means:
And it will be to nobodys surprise that from which section of society the murderer comes from.


Let me guess, he was a cultural enricher and an aspiring rapper?
Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34
Posts: 2,358
Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂ 		 May 11, 10, 00:03    #24
Seanus:
Many others have been killed, mostly locals.

Seems like I will have to enter the U.K. arena soon, violent creaturo's live there, I should end the criminality
AmathystThreads: 30
Posts: 3,968
Joined: Nov 10, 06  Pictures: 2 ♀ 		 May 11, 10, 00:12    #25
Mr Grunwald:
Seems like I will have to enter the U.K. arena soon,


And with that attitude you'll end up with a knife in your chest :( As Sheep has said, its locals that have been murdered, this young lad was unlucky to meet this animal.
Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34
Posts: 2,358
Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂ 		 May 11, 10, 00:20    #26
Amathyst:
And with that attitude you'll end up with a knife in your chest :(

Is that a threat? Soon you will find yourself with company of SeanBM and M-G! In the PF dungeon!
IronsideThreads: 59
Posts: 6,786
Joined: Feb 26, 09 ♂ 		 May 11, 10, 00:27    #27
MareGaea:
That's the shytty thing with ppl like that: they can't be let out in the open, but you can't lock them away forever as many "cry-wolfers" tend to think in an immediate reaction, because then those same "cry-wolfers" are complaining how much psychiatric help costs us.

they should hang him now!
Policy nowadays is set to divide people, by letting criminals roam the street .....
AmathystThreads: 30
Posts: 3,968
Joined: Nov 10, 06  Pictures: 2 ♀ 		 May 11, 10, 00:28    #28
Mr Grunwald:
Is that a threat?


No, I was merely telling you how it is in our great capital..its full of scum who would stab you if you looked at them the wrong way!

Mr Grunwald:
In the PF dungeon!


Nah, Im off to my comfortable bed...
Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34
Posts: 2,358
Joined: Dec 16, 08 ♂ 		 May 11, 10, 00:38    #29
Amathyst:
No, I was merely telling you how it is in our great capital..its full of scum who would stab you if you looked at them the wrong way!

Hmmm
Where has the world gone to? :(
guzzlerThreads: 6
Posts: 165
Joined: Mar 28, 10 ♂ 		 May 11, 10, 02:25    #30
What I find strange about this tragic case is that the boy was with twenty five of his mates what were they doing?.....London was always a rough city as was Dublin, and Glasgow and Liverpool I mention these because I spend some time in each of them. The time I'm talking about is late fifties early sixties the The weapon of choice in Glasgow was a cut-throat razor or a broken bottle in Liverpool flick-knives. Dublin it was bicycles chains and razors, and most people were tooled-up. What you had to learn to do was handle yourself and screw your loaf. The Barrow land dance hall on a Saturday night in Glasgow always turned into a bloodbath, Scotland Road in Liverpool was the same Dublin you just had to walk down the road and someone would try to claim you. So it was always there you just had to learn to avoid trouble but get in first when it was unavoidable. If I was a young guy today I would expect all of the young guys to be carrying a gun or a knife. And if I was with a girl I would wise her up to that fact and advice her to stay out of the way if anything started.

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