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Is UK the new cradle of antipolonism?


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RobertLeeThreads: 12
Posts: 133
Joined: May 26, 11 ♂ 		 Jul 9, 11, 22:31    #1
We had the fameous British National Party "Battle of Britain" campaign and expelling Poles is part of their agenda, we had Giles Coren expressing his wish in The Times for Poles to "clear off", suggesting that setting fires to synagogues is our national sport, we had Stephen Fry accusing Poles of running Auschwitz on TV, we had other cases of collective accusations of Poles for Holocaust and equating Catolicism with antisemitism. We had Daily Mail articles on how Polish immigrants in UK carry knives with them and eat swans - yes, this one is my favourite:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-473578/Sorry-poached-swans-Cal ls-clampdown-river-bandits-eastern-Europe.html
:D :D :D
Smaller scale slanderous accusations in the media are also common: for example once I saw an article of how supposedly an owner of a Polish shop told an English lady to get the hell out - more antipolish comments followed under the article.
Finally, there has been many personal accounts of Polish immigrants of how were they discriminated against and attacked because of their nationality.
How does it look when compared with other countries? Is it time to state that Britons have overall surpassed Germans in their polonophobia?
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Moderator  Jul 9, 11, 23:02    #2
RobertLee:
We had the fameous British National Party "Battle of Britain" campaign and expelling Poles is part of their agenda


Their agenda was to expel everyone non-British, not just Poles. Just like some people in Poland would like to do - what's new there? Nationalism is hardly something "unique" in Europe.

RobertLee:
suggesting that setting fires to synagogues is our national sport,


However, vandalising graveyards is a sadly common thing in Poland.

RobertLee:
we had Stephen Fry accusing Poles of running Auschwitz on TV


For which he subsequently apologised.

RobertLee:
we had other cases of collective accusations of Poles for Holocaust


That's America that was doing that. You know, a different country.

RobertLee:
equating Catolicism with antisemitism


Radio Maryja, anyone?

RobertLee:
We had Daily Mail articles on how Polish immigrants in UK carry knives with them


How were they murdering Brits and themselves without the knifes, hmm?

RobertLee:
and eat swans - yes, this one is my favourite:


The article mostly talks about poaching fish. And yes, it is quite common in the UK for Poles to be stealing carp.

RobertLee:
Smaller scale slanderous accusations in the media are also common: for example once I saw an article of how supposedly an owner of a Polish shop told an English lady to get the hell out - more antipolish comments followed under the article.


And you're telling me that Poles have never been racist towards others? Get out.

RobertLee:
Finally, there has been many personal accounts of Polish immigrants of how were they discriminated against and attacked because of their nationality.


One posel was beaten up for his skin colour in Poland before - or did that conveniently escape your attention?

RobertLee:
How does it look when compared with other countries? Is it time to state that Britons have overall surpassed Germans in their polonophobia?


I think it's safe to say that anyone who talks about "polonophobia" and suchlike is almost certainly a supporter of LPR - and thus can be laughed out of this forum.
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jul 9, 11, 23:05    #3
RobertLee:
we had Stephen Fry accusing Poles of running Auschwitz on TV

No, he did not. And no matter how many times you tell that lie, it will still be a lie.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Jul 9, 11, 23:11    #4
As delph said, you cannot just assume it is because they are Polish. Even 'Brits' of foreign descent get a hard rap and these people hate everything that isn't their own. Cradle of antipolonism? Nah, that's a step too far.
alexw68 Edited by: Moderator  Jul 9, 11, 23:17    #5
RobertLee:
Is it time to state that Britons have overall surpassed Germans in their polonophobia?

No, edit Why? Because 99.9999999% of Britons are not Stephen Fry, 99.9% are not members of the BNP and exactly 100% have not seen a Pole eating a swan on UK territory. And the Daily Mail is just beneath contempt - even if it wasn't, the fact remains that to sell copies it plays to the lowest common denominator in a way not entirely dissimilar to your lazy stereotyping of a nation whose citizens, I suggest, you have either not met at all or in insignificant quantities. The, 'oh, but I read on the Internet that...' argument just doesn't wash. If I used it to justify some bull about the inhabitants of that continent on the Western Atlantic seaboard you'd be up in arms - and frankly, I wouldn't blame you.

If Brits have an issue it is generally with the kind of menele that native Poles are themselves embarrassed by. Substitute Brits and Poles in that last sentence with any other nationality pair you care to mention and you'll find the phenomenon to be ubiquitous.

I am British and polonophilic, and was so long before actually going there was on the radar. But mniejsza z tym - I have a German father and the prejudices of his generation (which he, of course, no longer shares) towards Poles are, to put it charitably, disappointing.

In brief - could your rhetorical question be any more wrong than it already is? No.


was name calling necessary....
BzibziohThreads: 6
Posts: 3,657
Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Bzibzioh  Jul 9, 11, 23:24    #6
alexw68:
If Brits have an issue it is generally with the kind of menele

Anyone would have a problem with menele. But the thing is the press doesn't differentiate between them and the decent majority. They throw them all together into one bag and paint not a very pretty picture.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Jul 9, 11, 23:26    #7
That's true, Bzib. It squares with their limited little minds.
alexw68  Jul 9, 11, 23:30    #8
Bzibzioh:
But the thing is the press doesn't differentiate between them and the decent majority.

Of course not. The press will only ever concentrate on edge cases - whatever the subject.

I think we have to throw responsibility for how Poles are perceived in the UK back to the people who interact with them - usually very happily - on a day-to-day basis. **** the press. Never thought I'd be making an argument for the 'silent majority' but hey, looks like that's what I am doing.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jul 9, 11, 23:33    #9
alexw68:
I think we have to throw responsibility for how Poles are perceived in the UK back to the people who interact with them - usually very happily - on a day-to-day basis.


Just look at business owners - the vast majority seem to be delighted to have Polish workers around.

I know one guy who struggled for years to find quality staff for his fish processing business - they were offering decent wages, but just couldn't find people who could last. Bang - Poland joined the EU, and he was able to run at full capacity for the first time in years.

In fact - his complaint to me wasn't that they were bad workers, but rather that they were willing to work *too* hard.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Jul 9, 11, 23:44    #10
The Poles took many Brits out of their comfort zones but also used unfair agencies to get themselves ahead. Simply put, it's a mixed picture.
BzibziohThreads: 6
Posts: 3,657
Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀ [Suspended] 		 Jul 9, 11, 23:48    #11
Seanus:
The Poles took many Brits out of their comfort zones

What do you have in mind?
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Jul 9, 11, 23:50    #12
Isn't it clear, Bzib? Poles did the jobs that Brits were too proud to do. Some Brits should be grateful to even have a job at all considering how thick they are.
BzibziohThreads: 6
Posts: 3,657
Joined: Oct 15, 08 ♀ [Suspended] 		 Jul 9, 11, 23:54    #13
Seanus:
Isn't it clear, Bzib?

If it was, I would not be asking, dontyathink?
Seanus:
Poles did the jobs that Brits were too proud to do.

Sounds like Brits badly needed a humility lesson.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Jul 9, 11, 23:57    #14
I knew you'd answer that way but what else could I have had in mind? Seriously!

Some do and some don't, Bzib. Well-educated Brits often have to go through it too and educated Poles are now experiencing the same.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jul 9, 11, 23:58    #15
Bzibzioh:
Sounds like Brits badly needed a humility lesson.


To be honest, it's a common trend among all European countries - in the good times, the natives have jobs that are considered to be "beneath" them. There simply isn't the same attitude as in America that a crap job is an opportunity in life. In Spain, you had the natives considering olive picking to be "lowly" - now they all want to work there. In the UK, shop jobs were "lowly" - now they all want to work there. In Poland, cleaning is seen as "lowly" - yet when the crisis comes, they'll want to kick out Ukrainians so they can do it.

Really - nothing new at all in Europe.

The UK wasn't unique in this respect - right now, in Poland, there's a massive problem with university graduates of worthless subjects refusing to do jobs that are "beneath" them.
VincentThreads: 15
Posts: 1,708
Joined: Sep 9, 07 ♂ [Moderator] 		 Jul 9, 11, 23:59    #16
Seanus:
Some Brits should be grateful to even have a job at all considering how thick they are.



Don't be too hard on yourself mate :)

Seriously though, can you give some examples as to where you've seen this?
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		Edited by: Seanus  Jul 10, 11, 00:00    #17
Superb answer from delph there. That is just the reality of the situation, Bzib.

Vincent, in many places in Scotland and in many videos online. Vince, my education is top 3% in Britain :) My life education much better :) :)
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jul 10, 11, 00:01    #18
delphiandomine:
right now, in Poland, there's a massive problem with university graduates of worthless subjects refusing to do jobs that are "beneath" them.

Yes but there's also the problem of companies insisting that they need graduates for low level positions. A friend of mine works at a firm who are currently looking for a receptionist but insist that the successful candidate has a Magister!
alexw68  Jul 10, 11, 00:03    #19
delphiandomine:
There simply isn't the same attitude as in America that a crap job is an opportunity in life.

Not really convinced that this attitude obtains in America, to be honest.

Where there is an ethnically diverse population (take NY, for example) there is an awful lot of Hispanics and blacks doing menial jobs. Because they have a better instinct for opportunity? Hardly.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jul 10, 11, 00:04    #20
Harry:
Yes but there's also the problem of companies insisting that they need graduates for low level positions. A friend of mine works at a firm who are currently looking for a receptionist but insist that the successful candidate has a Magister!


I can tell you that the same nonsense is present in virtually every company I've taught in - I asked one director to his face why he was demanding it - and his answer was that the qualification has become so incredibly devalued that it just didn't make sense to allow people without it to apply.

Same nonsense is creeping into the UK - a marketing assistant needs a degree? whatever the hell for?
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Jul 10, 11, 00:07    #21
Is creeping into the UK? It has been that way for a while, delph. It's a vain attempt to get everyone up to a certain standard to make it easier on themselves. There is hypocrisy there as so many with degrees don't get a look-in anywhere.
isthatu2Threads: 13
Posts: 5,225
Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂ 		 Jul 10, 11, 00:09    #22
Is UK the new cradle of antipolonism?
The what now? Didnt do greek at school im afraid old bean.....
alexw68 Edited by: alexw68  Jul 10, 11, 00:13    #23
delphiandomine:
a marketing assistant needs a degree? whatever the hell for?

Very little. Whose fault? Universities', for pursuing a business plan which is predicated on growth of student numbers and not the silent reason of what university is for: drawing a line between those that are fit for a certain vocation and those that aren't.

But also the firms', for failing to capitalise on the new graduate's potential insights.

Several points of failure here.
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jul 10, 11, 00:20    #24
alexw68:
Universities', for pursuing a business plan which is predicated on growth of student numbers

Especially the Polish system of 'turn up every other weekend for five years and we'll give you a Magister, provided of course that you pay all your fees in full'.
alexw68  Jul 10, 11, 00:22    #25
Harry:

Especially the Polish system of 'turn up every other weekend for five years and we'll give you a Magister, provided of course that you pay all your fees in full'.

There's nothing Polish about that system. There is a lot of it about.
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		 Jul 10, 11, 00:40    #26
In Warsaw:
But not to such an extent. In the UK if you want to do your degree part time, it will take at least twice as long. Not here though!


What pisses me off is that there's no way to really accelerate your learning in Poland - I wanted to do a BA in English just to have "the papers" - yet - the morons wanted 3 years of study. I'm pretty certain that I could pass 90% of the stuff while asleep - but no, the timescale must be obeyed, even if I want to pay for it.

Frustratingly stupid.
In WarsawThreads: 2
Posts: 90
Joined: Mar 7, 11 ♂ 		 Jul 10, 11, 00:47    #27
delphiandomine:
I wanted to do a BA in English just to have "the papers" - yet - the morons wanted 3 years of study. I'm pretty certain that I could pass 90% of the stuff while asleep - but no, the timescale must be obeyed, even if I want to pay for it.

I know that one can do a Magister in four years instead of five.

But I very much doubt that that is the cause for the supposed wave of anti-Polonism in the UK at present.
RobertLeeThreads: 12
Posts: 133
Joined: May 26, 11 ♂ 		 Jul 10, 11, 00:49    #28
delphiandomine:
Their agenda was to expel everyone non-British, not just Poles. Just like some people in Poland would like to do - what's new there? Nationalism is hardly something "unique" in Europe.

Which Polish political party openly demands expulsions of foreigners? UK surpasses Poland in xenophobia here, but nevertheless Britons would never miss an opportunity to call Poles racists.

delphiandomine:
Nah, Poles preferred to burn them in barns, not synagogues.

That's hate talk.

delphiandomine:
For which he subsequently apologised.

Nice of him, but there is always the issue of how many saw the original defamation vs. how many saw the apology.

delphiandomine:
Radio Maryja, anyone?

Yes, small percentage of old ladies makes up a good representation of Catholicism. Again hate talk.

delphiandomine:
The article mostly talks about poaching fish. And yes, it is quite common in the UK for Poles to be stealing carp.

You mean they like fishing and aren't always aware that taking the fish is illegal in UK? How about omiting the story about how fishing looks like in Poland and proceeding to call Polish people thives?

delphiandomine:
That's America that was doing that. You know, a different country.

UK is catching up.

delphiandomine:
And you're telling me that Poles have never been racist towards others? Get out.

Is this topic about Polish racism or can't you read? You are free start your 11th thread about Polish-American racism or Polish-Colombian racism.

delphiandomine:
I think it's safe to say that anyone who talks about "polonophobia" and suchlike is almost certainly a supporter of LPR - and thus can be laughed out of this forum.

You like to apply your double standards to Poles, right?
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂ 		 Jul 10, 11, 00:56    #29
It's not about racism, Robert
delphiandomineThreads: 42
Posts: 9,954
Joined: Nov 25, 08 ♂ [Suspended] 		Edited by: Moderator  Jul 10, 11, 00:59    #30
RobertLee:
Which Polish political party openly demands expulsions of foreigners? UK surpasses Poland in xenophobia here, but nevertheless Britons would never miss an opportunity to call Poles racists.


Hahaha. There are plenty of such types in Poland - are you really so deluded as to think otherwise? LPR - you know, those guys who spout a similar anti-Polonism message were fond of spouting such garbage. Likewise, some elements of PiS have been rather vocal about removing foreign "elements".

RobertLee:
That's hate talk.


It's the truth talking. edit

RobertLee:
Nice of him, but there is always the issue of how many saw the original defamation vs. how many saw the apology.


Perhaps the Polish media can answer that question?

RobertLee:
Yes, small percentage of old ladies makes up a good representation of Catholicism. Again hate talk.


The tolerance shown by the Catholic Church towards Radio Maryja certainly suggests that the Church approves. The fact that they have only now decided (after 20 years) to turn up at Jedwabne says it all.

RobertLee:
You mean they like fishing and aren't always aware that taking the fish is illegal in UK? How about omiting the story about how fishing looks like in Poland and proceeding to call Polish people thives?


You mean that Poles don't understand PRIVATE PROPERTY - KEEP OUT? Ah...actually, you would be right there.

Sorry, but if a Brit in Poland was to steal fish belonging to someone - the law would rightfully come down on them.


RobertLee:
You like to apply your double standards to Poles, right?


I notice no attempt to refute membership/approval of LPR.

Let's be realistic here - you're a Polish American who thinks that he speaks for Poland. Thankfully, you don't - most Poles think that people like you are a ******* joke. They don't regard the UK as a cradle of anything - indeed, they view the UK with much praise for allowing Polish workers to come in from the beginning, and for being generally supportive towards Poland in the EU. In fact, even the UK government just so happens to be in coalition with a Polish party in the EU - hardly the work of "racists", is it?

People like you just seek to stir up resentment because you're utterly dissatisfied with your life.

Personally, I think it's hilarious that an American is posting on a Polish forum about the racism of Brits - glass houses, anyone?

(Harry, by the way - this joker has been whining on The Guardian forums too - seems to be one of those idiots who probably lost a teaching job to a Brit who didn't need a work permit)


No name calling. There will be no more warnings for you.

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