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Unemployed Poles in Ireland : a crash course in milking the system


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hythornThreads: 6
Posts: 843
Joined: Feb 21, 08 ♂ 		 Jan 31, 12, 11:00    #1
sun, sea, surf and schmoozing

Poles on the dole in Donegole (excuse the poetic licence)
and from Gazeta no less -


http://wyborcza.pl/1,75480,11028074,Polak_w_Irlandii__Kocham_cie__bezr obocie.html

lights blue touch paper and retires
hudsonhicksThreads: 10
Posts: 160
Joined: Oct 23, 11 ♂ 		 Feb 1, 12, 00:03    #2
Similar Sites exist for Poles in the UK

http://www.benefity.org.uk/
http://www.zasilkianglia.com/
http://benefityipodatki.co.uk/
rant2012Threads: 4
Posts: 19
Joined: Dec 13, 11 ♀ 		 Feb 1, 12, 08:42    #3
Yeah but those sites seem to be more informative than suggestive, they don't seem to be telling people how great the dole is directly unlike the Gazeta article which is 100% shameless!
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Feb 1, 12, 09:32    #4
a.k.:
you're for a few months in Poland yet you know Polish so well to read whole article? Strange.

Not as strange as moving to a foreign country, voting out the Socialists and voting in a party who is pledged to reduce benefits (the margin by which Johnson won in London is much smaller than the number of post-2004 Poles who are registered to vote there), then at the first opportunity claiming as many benefits as possible!
BRITS TITS  Feb 1, 12, 10:01    #5
JonnyM:
Are you claiming benefits there?

Why not if they let you legally?
RevokeNiceThreads: 21
Posts: 2,767
Joined: Jun 20, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Feb 1, 12, 10:21    #6
Look the Irish dole heads are just as bad but i've met countless eastern europeans who can't believe their luck getting money for nothing here more than twice the wage they would get at home for doing a weeks work.
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Feb 1, 12, 10:40    #7
a.k.:
No. I've never been to Ireland too.

So what is your take on Poles claiming Welfare benefits etc abroad and those people in Poland who encourage them to do so? We're all ears.
a.k.  Feb 1, 12, 10:42    #8
RevokeNice:
Look the Irish dole heads are just as bad


Maybe a time limitation for a dole would be a good solution for you.
Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57
Posts: 5,478
Joined: Jul 3, 09  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		 Feb 1, 12, 10:45    #9
a.k.:
Maybe a time limitation for a dole would be a good solution for you.

It has to be in place in a country like Poland as people would obviously milk the system as much as possible, in the UK and Ireland our citizens generally do not sit on the dole for as long as possible waiting for the handouts.
a.k.  Feb 1, 12, 10:49    #10
JonnyM:
So what is your take on Poles claiming Welfare benefits etc abroad and those people in Poland who encourage them to do so? We're all ears.


The article doesn't encourage people to claim benefits. It's just a reportage about life on a dole in Ireland. Press has right to describe the reality.
My take is that a person who legally stay and work and pay taxes in a foreign country for years, should have the same rights as nationals. Period. They payed for their own benefits just as the woman in the article said. However there should be a time limitation for all people claiming a dole to prevent people saying such things: "it's too low for me to wake up in the morning for 8 Euro per hour, I'm rather be on a dole"
rozumiemnicThreads: 4
Posts: 1,023
Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀ 		 Feb 1, 12, 10:51    #11
Wroclaw Boy:
in the UK and Ireland our citizens generally do not sit on the dole for as long as possible waiting for the handouts.

oh they do though, WB, I know of families in Brighton/Hove for example that have three generations on the dole, expecting council houses as a right, and with no intention of ever getting a job.
a.k.  Feb 1, 12, 10:53    #12
Wroclaw Boy:
in the UK and Ireland our citizens generally do not sit on the dole for as long as possible waiting for the handouts.


Are you sure? Besides that people in the arcticle don't seem to intend to do that. The weird situation (described in the article) is when a social worker is discouraging the woman from starting a business saying it would be better if she was on a dole for two years then she could claim benefits when starting a new business. You have a grudge to Poles, maybe you should have a grudge to your own social workers?
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Feb 1, 12, 10:54    #13
a.k.:

The article doesn't encourage people to claim benefits. It's just a reportage about life on a dole in Ireland

Check post #2
a.k.:
My take is that a person who legally stay and work and pay taxes in a foreign country for years, should have the same rights as nationals. Period.

Mine too, however the issue in question is those who haven't paid the taxes or social insurance. And do you think the government of Poland should have the same obligation.
a.k.:
However there should be a time limitation for all people claiming a dole to prevent people saying such things: "it's too low for me to wake up in the morning for 8 Euro per hour, I'm rather be on a dole"

This is a hot issue at the moment - the UK is one of the few countries who don't do that. one area of concern is benefits paid for children who have never been to the UK and babcia renting out her flat, turning up in the UK and claiming Minimum Income Guarantee.
Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57
Posts: 5,478
Joined: Jul 3, 09  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		Edited by: Wroclaw Boy  Feb 1, 12, 11:01    #14
firstly i said generally, we generally do no sit on the dole for as long as possible. Having said that the current economic climate has made it impossible for many to actuallly earn more in traditional work than being on benefits. Of course there will be lower class Brits and Irish on the dole.

a.k.:
You have a grudge to Poles

Wrong, i do not have a grudge against Poles at all, find the section of my post that suggests otherwise, i was very carefull to NOT display THAT message. Cash is king we are taught form a very young age how to make it by virtually any means.
gwiazdeczka~  Feb 1, 12, 11:09    #15
That's interesting. I have lived in the UK for 8 years, I grew up here for a lot of my childhood because my stepfather is British. I had to leave 6th form for health reasons, and I was refused benefits countless times. Both ones relating to my sickness and simple Jobseeker's Allowance. This after residing here, going to school here, having been issued a NINO at 16, etc. They could not make up their minds on why this was – most times it was because of residency, but they did once quote my yearly income that was apparently enough to live on: £0.00. Still have the letter. I had to get a social worker to help me get ESA – rejected again, despite extensive proof of my illness. I appealed, they cancelled my appeal.

What I would like to know is where those magical Polish people are coming from who can get benefits within weeks when I couldn't get one in the 8 years I've lived, worked and grown up here.
a.k.  Feb 1, 12, 11:14    #16
JonnyM:
Check post #2


As far as I see they are sites which merely provide informations about benefits. You can find such information in English (goverment) sites, so what's your problem?

JonnyM:
Mine too, however the issue in question is those who haven't paid the taxes or social insurance.


As far as I know those who hasn't paid taxes for some definite period aren't eligible for a dole. The same is in Poland no matter if we talk about a national or a foreigner.

JonnyM:
one area of concern is benefits paid for children who have never been to the UK and babcia renting out her flat, turning up in the UK and claiming Minimum Income Guarantee.


Every loophole can be patched. I have no idea why British people haven't done that yet?

Wroclaw Boy:
Wrong, i do not have a grudge against Poles at all, find the section of my post that suggests otherwise, i was very carefull to NOT display THAT message.


By "you" I mean "wy" - British or Irish who says that Poles come to their countries to milk the benefit system.

Wroclaw Boy:
Of course there will be lower class Brits and Irish on the dole.


Because those from upper class can earn much more money from working than being on a dole, no?

Wroclaw Boy:
Having said that the current economic climate has made it impossible for many to actuallly earn more in traditional work than being on benefits.


You mean the lower class or does it also concern quilificate middle and upper class?
a.k.  Feb 1, 12, 11:19    #17
gwiazdeczka~:
What I would like to know is where those magical Polish people are coming from who can get benefits within weeks when I couldn't get one in the 8 years I've lived, worked and grown up here.


From the minds of tabloid journalists ;)
RevokeNiceThreads: 21
Posts: 2,767
Joined: Jun 20, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Feb 1, 12, 11:19    #18
a.k.:
Maybe a time limitation for a dole would be a good solution for you.


Bud, id love to be on the dole. I got hit with a 9.5 k tax bill last week.

Id be loving some free moolah, believe you me.

Anyway, why are cicra 40,000 poles on the dole in my country?

We owe you foooook all.
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Feb 1, 12, 11:21    #19
a.k.:
so what's your problem?

A question you might very well direct towards yourself. Have a better look at the sites.
a.k.:
As far as I know those who hasn't paid taxes for some definite period aren't eligible for a dole.

It's clear you don't understand the difference between what you quaintly call 'a dole' and welfare benefits. There are benefits available from day one, regardless of tax. I even mentioned one for you in my last post.
a.k.:
Every loophole can be patched. I have no idea why British people haven't done that yet?

Such a shame that people exploit 'loopholes' in the system - better to call those 'loopholes' provision for people who really need help.
gwiazdeczka~:
What I would like to know is where those magical Polish people are coming from

From Poland. check out some of the websites in post #2.
Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57
Posts: 5,478
Joined: Jul 3, 09  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		 Feb 1, 12, 11:24    #20
gwiazdeczka~:
What I would like to know is where those magical Polish people are coming from who can get benefits within weeks when I couldn't get one in the 8 years I've lived, worked and grown up here.

They dont get benefits within weeks as far as i know, they have to work and pay NI for a year minimum. With you the fact that your a student may be an issue.

a.k.:
You mean the lower class or does it also concern quilificate middle and upper class?

Not so much the upper class. Put it this way for an average family in the UK to live an average life in an average house the man (or woman) would need to earn about £40K a year. Theres not too many £40k jobs around at the moment.
RevokeNiceThreads: 21
Posts: 2,767
Joined: Jun 20, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Feb 1, 12, 11:31    #21
Why are there 40,000 poles in receipt of the dole in my country?

I thought they were the bees knees, doing the jobs the natives wouldnt etc. etc.

I love the ****** reference to the "arseholes from Dublin".

We subsidise you, tramp.
Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57
Posts: 5,478
Joined: Jul 3, 09  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		 Feb 1, 12, 11:35    #22
JonnyM:
There are benefits available from day one, regardless of tax.

are you talking about Nill Income benefits?

Its the child benefit that annoys me, Poles having children in the UK claiming child benefit then sending them back to Poland ti live with the parents, its worth £17k over 16 years.

Heres another good one, i was at the Inland Revenue the other day sorting out my self assesment and there was a Polish guy ahead of me talking to a specialist, he didnt speak English and the specialist obvioulsy didnt speak Polish, so they both picked up a telephone at the desk and had a conversation via an interpreter, all paid for by the UK tax payer obviously. I expect they have all kinds of translaters available.

Just imagine that in Poland.
hythornThreads: 6
Posts: 843
Joined: Feb 21, 08 ♂ 		 Feb 1, 12, 11:40    #23
Wroclaw Boy:
They dont get benefits within weeks as far as i know, they have to work and pay NI for a year minimum


that is my understanding as well
however some of my Polish friends in Glasgow got council housing the moment they rolled up
in fairness it was an absolute kharzi of a place with smack heads for neighbours but anywhere you lay your hat....
a.k.  Feb 1, 12, 11:49    #24
JonnyM:
There are benefits available from day one, regardless of tax. I even mentioned one for you in my last post.


A foreigner has to take a job to get such benefit first. He has to pay National Insurance, doesn't he?
RevokeNiceThreads: 21
Posts: 2,767
Joined: Jun 20, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Feb 1, 12, 11:52    #25
a.k.:
A foreigner has to take a job to get such benefit first. He has to pay National Insurance, doesn't he?


Nope. Nope. Nope.

You havent a clue, do you?

Why are circa 40,000 poles on the dole in my country?
JonnyMThreads: 16
Posts: 4,487
Joined: Mar 9, 11 ♂ 		 Feb 1, 12, 11:53    #26
a.k.:
A foreigner has to take a job to get such benefit first. He has to pay National Insurance, doesn't he?

No. Some benefits are contributions based and others are income based.
BarneyThreads: 16
Posts: 1,630
Joined: May 26, 08  Pictures: 3 ♂ 		 Feb 1, 12, 11:54    #27
Donegal is a great place and good luck to them.
I'll start complaining about people milking the system when they start jailing Bankers.
Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57
Posts: 5,478
Joined: Jul 3, 09  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		Edited by: Wroclaw Boy  Feb 1, 12, 11:57    #28
JonnyM:
income based.

Thats the one, i was aware that Brits qualify but foreigners as well!!
RevokeNiceThreads: 21
Posts: 2,767
Joined: Jun 20, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		 Feb 1, 12, 12:03    #29
Why are circa 40,000 poles on the dole in my country?
gumishuThreads: 17
Posts: 3,943
Joined: Apr 6, 09  Pictures: 1 ♂ 		Edited by: gumishu  Feb 1, 12, 12:09    #30
Wroclaw Boy:
Its the child benefit that annoys me, Poles having children in the UK claiming child benefit then sending them back to Poland ti live with the parents, its worth £17k over 16 years.


the law is such (don't know if it's European law or UK law or perhaps they work jointly towards that outcome) that even if Poles don't bring their children with them they are eligible to receive child benefits (it's the same in the Netherlands and Germany as far as I know) - and as Harry already pointed in this thread it would cost the British taxpayer a lot more if the children where actually in the UK (school, health care) - remember also than in most cases those Polish parents are British taxpayers[/b] too

RevokeNice:
I love the ****** reference to the "arseholes from Dublin".


oh, pal - did you Google-translate the article or is it that you know a couple of words of Polish:
A jak reagują na to ludzie wokół? - Nigdy nie spotkałam się z nieprzychylnymi komentarzami. Może dlatego, że sporo Irlandczyków też pobiera zasiłki. [b]A jedna koleżanka powiedziała mi kiedyś, że woli, żeby jej podatki szły na mnie niż na różnych dupków z Dublina.

Więcej... http://wyborcza.pl/1,75480,11028074,Polak_w_Irlandii__Kocham_cie__bezr obocie.html?as=3&startsz=x#ixzz1l7ugbbKu

this translates as:

How do people around react? - I was never met by any disfavourable comments. Maybe it's because so many Irish people receive benefits. One colleague (Irish figuring from the paragraph) once told me, that she preferred her taxes were spent on myself than on various arsholes in Dublin


so, pal, too many assumptions (and that leads you nowhere - but it looks like you really like to be there)

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