Alabama's new Immigration Law. People will be arrested.

♂

Jun 14, 11, 02:41 #1

Beginning September 1st someone even giving an illegal a car lift will be arrested, and surely not be able to employ one.
"Alabama's new law cracking down on illegal immigrants will likely survive legal challenges from advocacy groups that say it is unconstitutional and racist, analysts told Fox News.

The law, which takes effect Sept. 1, empowers police to arrest people suspected of being an illegal immigrant if they are stopped for another reason and requires businesses and schools to verify whether workers and students are in the country lawfully. It also makes it a crime to knowingly transport or shelter illegal immigrants.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/11/alabamas-tough-new-immigrat ion-law-can-withstand-legal-challenges-experts-say/
http://www.thejournal.ie/alabama-makes-it-a-crime-to-give-an-illegal-i mmigrant-a-lift-153320-Jun2011/

isthatu2Threads: 13 Posts: 5,225 Joined: Apr 3, 08 ♂	Jun 14, 11, 02:46 #2
PennBoy: empowers police to arrest people suspected of being an illegal immigrant if they are stopped for another reason would the most common reason be a swarthy complexion and a whiff of nacho's on said suspects breath?

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Jun 14, 11, 03:38 #3
isthatu2: would the most common reason be a swarthy complexion and a whiff of nacho's on said suspects breath? No but anyone who looks, sounds, talks foreign will be asked for proof of legal status in this country.

ItsAllAboutMEThreads: 4 Posts: 358 Joined: Apr 30, 10 ♀	Jun 14, 11, 03:41 #4
this is a disgrace. what a misguided steaming pile of legislative crap

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Jun 14, 11, 03:44 #5
ItsAllAboutME: this is a disgrace. what a misguided steaming pile of legislative crap No. I see it Arizona and Alabama down, 48 more states to go. Immigration always has and will be a part of this country's history but it needs to be controlled. Right now it's gotten out of hand, 20 million illegals.

♀

Jun 14, 11, 04:05 #6

We need laws that encourage legal immigration, and a system that attracts educated and hardworking people. We need to have laws that filter out criminals and let us easily deport those that abuse the welfare system or commit crime, not laws that discriminate against people who look or sound "foreign." The US immigration system is outdated, which makes it ripe for abuse. The answer is reform not laws that go against everything that this country stands for. Do you walk around with your proof of citizenship? I know I don't carry my passport around with me but I guess I might have to when I go to Alabama, the Gestapo State, that just voted the Fourth Amendment out. I guess old habits never die in some places. How do you spot an immigrant? How do you tell a Canadian from an American, just by looking at them? This law is racist, backwards, and I hope Alabama kicks those morons out of office. It's a sad day when "We Dare Defend Our Rights" turns into "We Question Your Rights If You Look Foreign to Us."

RobertBentley

Jun 14, 11, 04:10 #7

ItsAllAboutME:

this is a disgrace. what a misguided steaming pile of legislative crap

There is still US Supreme Court. It's the refusal of children's right to education I find most savage. Second making it illegal for me to show compassion or give any aid or assistance to my neighbor is an infringement of my belief in human dignity. This takes away my civil liberty. It's Not a million miles away from when Poles were 'obliged' to shun Jews under the Nazis.

♂

Jun 14, 11, 04:16 #8

ItsAllAboutME:

How do you spot an immigrant? How do you tell a Canadian from an American, just by looking at them? This law is racist, backwards,

ItsAllAboutME tough times call for tough measures. Canadians don't come illegally to America, no need to. Most illegals are from non English speaking countries. If someone looks or sounds Hispanic, African, Eastern European, Asian etc. if there's a chance he could be illegal let them ask him for proof, driver's license, social security card, green card whatever. They're not gonna beat him by the side of the road.

ItsAllAboutMEThreads: 4 Posts: 358 Joined: Apr 30, 10 ♀	Jun 14, 11, 04:17 #9
RobertBentley: It's Not a million miles away from when Poles were 'obliged' to shun Jews under the Nazis. no, it's not, Mr. Governor...

♀

Jun 14, 11, 04:29 #10

PennBoy:

Canadians don't come illegally to America

Do you seriously think it's impossible for a Canadian to be in the US illegally?

How can you not see anything wrong with legislation that requires the law enforcement to treat people differently based on the color of their skin or their hair? How can you not see anything wrong about requiring kids to bring IDs to school - only some kids, though, the "non-American looking?"

Tough times call for tough measures? Yeah, we heard that before. In fact, we hear it every time someone tries to scare people into giving up their liberties in times of "crisis" or "threat." What tough times, Penn? What tough times let you legislate racism?

RobertBentley	Jun 14, 11, 04:32 #11
ItsAllAboutME: no, it's not, Mr. Governor... I'm not allowed to choose who I have under my roof or 'harbor' one or more. Though I won't face a firing squad for doing so. Little Pedro can't be invited for a sleepover but the rest of my son's friendd's can.

♂

Edited by: PennBoy Jun 14, 11, 04:39 #12

ItsAllAboutME:

Do you seriously think it's impossible for a Canadian to be in the US illegally?

I'm sure there's a few but my point was not in large numbers, it's a prosperous nation.

ItsAllAboutME:

How can you not see anything wrong with legislation that requires the law enforcement to treat people differently based on the color of their skin or their hair? How can you not see anything wrong about requiring kids to bring IDs to school - only some kids, though, the "non-American looking?"

Not just people of color Europeans also. But lets be serious if ones' in Cali or Texas 9 times out of 10 the illegal with be a Mexican or another Hispanic, someone who does not speak English. If it's New York Or Illinois they'll stop people who look and sound European. It's not racist because it holds everyone under suspicion. Kids have IDs in schools anyhow.

♀

Edited by: PlasticPole Jun 14, 11, 04:39 #13

PennBoy:

"Alabama's new law cracking down on illegal immigrants will likely survive legal challenges from advocacy groups that say it is unconstitutional and racist, analysts told Fox News.

Nope. Won't happen. It didn't happen here. Our state had something similar, it was struck down in Federal Court. Same for the law proposed in Arizona. Alabama is just wasting their money with this ****. With the economy the way it is, why would they waste so much money on something that always gets struck down by the feds?
It's folly.
They need to put tax payer money toward productive use.
If they don't want illegals the way to keep them out is to not give them a job. That simple.

♀

Jun 14, 11, 04:42 #14

So if I own a cab in Alabama, should I ask for papers first before I accept a passenger? How about if I have a restaurant? Papers first, then the menu?

Perhaps you should teach your son how to distinguish immigrants from "regular" people. You wouldn't want your kid hanging out with the "non-Americans," would you?

I suggest we make "some" people wear arm bands, just so you can make sure who you're dealing with. Would make life easier, wouldn't it? We can color-code them, too...

♂

Jun 14, 11, 04:47 #15

ItsAllAboutME:

So if I own a cab in Alabama, should I ask for papers first before I accept a passenger? How about if I have a restaurant? Papers first, then the menu?

Perhaps you should teach your son how to distinguish immigrants from "regular" people. You wouldn't want your kid hanging out with the "non-Americans," would you?

I have American, Polish, Arab, Italian, Jewish friends. I get along with everyone. But if someone is here illegally how will cops know? they must ask for proof. I understand it might be embarrassing to a person being asked for ID in public, making him/her stand out as if they're different. But our current immigration laws don't work at all. How would you then go about this????

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	Jun 14, 11, 04:50 #16
Alabama and all these southern states are going to have to understand Mexicanos are here to stay and there isn't much they can do about it.

♀

Edited by: ItsAllAboutME Jun 14, 11, 04:54 #17

PennBoy:

Not just people of color Europeans also. But lets be serious if ones' in Cali or Texas 9 times out of 10 the illegal with be a Mexican or another Hispanic, someone who does not speak English. If it's New York Or Illinois they'll stop people who look and sound European.

this is so wrong on so many levels, if you can't see it, I can't explain it to you

PennBoy:

It's not racist because it holds everyone under suspicion.

yeah, Penn, that's awesome. because we all want to live in a country where everyone is suspected of something by the authorities... ever heard about a guy named Orwell?

PlasticPole:

Alabama is just wasting their money

which we all know Alabama has plenty of...

PlasticPole:

If they don't want illegals the way to keep them out is to not give them a job.

I agree with that.

I don't know if it's the year before elections, or something in the water that makes people go nuts like that.

PennBoy:

But if someone is here illegally how will cops know? they must ask for proof.

How do they know anywhere else? Heard about the Fourth Amendment? Reasonable suspicion and all? It means a cop cannot come up to you out of nowhere and demand that you prove that you haven't done anything wrong. This is not how this country operates.

RobertBentley	Jun 14, 11, 04:54 #18
ItsAllAboutME: So if I own a cab in Alabama, should I ask for papers first before I accept a passenger? How about if I have a restaurant? Papers first, then the menu? Exactly. Where's my freedom? Immigration should do their jobs not ask me to do it for them.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	Jun 14, 11, 04:58 #19
The problem is, how you going to know who is here legally and who isn't? Just don't hire Mexicans, period? It's impossible to know who is here legally and who isn't. Papers can be forged. Documents altered.

♂

Edited by: PennBoy Jun 14, 11, 05:01 #20

ItsAllAboutME:

ever heard about a guy named Orwell?

George Orwell ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Orwell

ItsAllAboutME:

Reasonable suspicion and all? It means a cop cannot come up to you out of nowhere and demand that you prove that you haven't done anything wrong. This is not how this country operates.

I remember being out fishing here in Pennsylvania with my Polish friends a few years back. Cops came because it was late, heard me talk didn't hear an accent my other friends barely spoke English cop goes "Where are your greencards"? "You want me to call immigration?!?" It doesn't matter if there's a law or not it happens anyway. Just like a black man get's stopped in a nice car, because he probably stole it or is a drug dealer.

♀

Jun 14, 11, 05:14 #21

Just because it happens, it doesn't mean it should. And if you and your friends were a little more aware of your rights, you would know how to answer his question. Nothing is as short-lived as liberty taken for granted.

We do need to change the immigration laws but this piece of embarrasment is not the way to do it.

The problem with changing laws these days is that you always have to compromise with some special group or another. We compromise the sh*t out of everything, and then we end up with a pile of non-functioning bureaucracy.

If it were up to me (and I think I'd have to be the empress to push it through in this day and age), everyone would get in - except criminals and perhaps some contagious individuals. And Dope and Harry. They'd be given IDs, photographed, it would be easy to track them, etc. After two years, we'd check on them. If they can support themselves without committing crime or relying on welfare, or if they're in college or the military, they can stay. Otherwise, they're out.

Of course it would mean that a lot of Americans would be out, too...

All jokes aside, we do need immigrants. We need the educated ones and we need the ones who work minimal wage jobs. And everyone in between. This is what got us where and who we are, and I would be a great shame to forget about it.

♂

Jun 14, 11, 05:23 #22

ItsAllAboutME:

All jokes aside, we do need immigrants. We need the educated ones and we need the ones who work minimal wage jobs.

The problem is there are so many of them now they're in labor unions, getting paid what an American with a trade makes. They're no longer just cleaning toilets. And people who are citizens have a hard time finding a job because there is simply too any of them. Now you surely must understand that? In the long run it's for a good cause.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	Jun 14, 11, 05:25 #23
The biggest problem is, what do you do about healthcare? These immigrants need the same health care as everyone else except they don't have the money to pay for it and they, as a group, are severely under insured. What do you do? Let them bankrupt the system because they have a habit of bankrupting stuff where ever they go.

♀

Edited by: ItsAllAboutME Jun 14, 11, 05:35 #24

what are you talking about, Penn? illegal immigrants in labor unions? where did you get that, Fox News? you know the largest unions are teachers and police, right? are you saying there are illegal teachers and police officers out there? less than 10% of workers in the US are unionized, Penn.

PennBoy:

And people who are citizens have a hard time finding a job because there is simply too any of them. Now you surely must understand that? In the long run it's for a good cause.

ugh, this is so ridiculous... you should really start thinking about what you write. first you're saying that illegals barely speak English (and this is supposedly how you can tell an illegal). now you're saying that they're taking jobs away from citizens. I don't know what kind of job you have but I'm certainly not afraid that someone who just crossed the border and barely speaks English will be taking my job away from me.

What good cause, Penn? Citizenship does give you a lot of rights but it doesn't guarantee employment, Penn. The good cause is to have the best employees for American companies, regardless of their nationality.

PlasticPole:

These immigrants need the same health care as everyone else except they don't have the money to pay for it and they, as a group, are severely under insured.

well, we could discuss healthcare in a whole separate thread... Perhaps if it was easier for people to get temporary worker permits, they would work AND pay taxes, so it would be easier for hospitals to pay for their care?

♀

Edited by: PlasticPole Jun 14, 11, 05:37 #25

Most American don't want to be janitor.

Problem with that is, most illegals don't make enough money to pay the taxes needed to cover their health care. They will receive more than they give. So, like most everyone else, they will will be another class of people sucking up resources that are in scarce supply. They might even ship some of that money back to Mexico so it will leave our country and go elsewhere. We need all the money we can get right now. Too much of it is going someplace else, which is part of the problem.

♂

Jun 14, 11, 05:47 #26

ItsAllAboutME:

what are you talking about, Penn? illegal immigrants in labor unions?

I meant Mexicans in unions, and yes they do take illegals they're not officially on the payroll but i know 100% that they do. For instance they do the dangerous jobs like spray paint bridges, or work night shifts putting up drywall, or plumbing, build roads. Remember unions are a big mafia, they have a lot of power and can get away with it.

ItsAllAboutME:

What good cause, Penn?

Ensure that the citizens of this country will have a job to pick from not do something else because some immigrant does it for half the price.

♀

Edited by: ItsAllAboutME Jun 14, 11, 05:48 #27

PlasticPole:

most illegals don't make enough money to pay the taxes needed to cover their health care. They will receive more than they give.

you can say the same thing about a large portion of US citizens.

Looking at the big picture, though, taxes are paid not only by the migrant workers but also by the companies that employ them. If the companies make profits by having better-skilled labor force, it increases state revenue, too, hence more money for hospitals. And schools. And the police.

PennBoy:

Ensure that the citizens of this country will have a job to pick from not do something else because some immigrant does it for half the price.

it's not the government's job to ensure you have a job, Penn. if you can be replaced by an immigrant, you should improve your skills. Your family has jobs, right? Have they taken them away from someone who has been here longer? How about you? Should you pack your stuff and go back to Poland? The US economy is not a zero-sum game, there's room for everyone.

PolskiMocThreads: 7 Posts: 488 Joined: Mar 15, 10 ♂ [Suspended]	Jun 14, 11, 05:49 #28
ItsAllAboutME: this is a disgrace. what a misguided steaming pile of legislative crap Oh yeah it is so horrible. I mean Illegals breaking the law by being illegal that is awesome. But, to crack down on illegals? Wow, How could those horrible monsters do this to protect U.S citizens & enforce laws that should be there to begin with?

♀

Edited by: PlasticPole Jun 14, 11, 05:51 #29

ItsAllAboutME:

Looking at the big picture, though, taxes are paid not only by the migrant workers but also by the companies that employ them. If the companies make profits by having better-skilled labor force, it increases state revenue, too, hence more money for hospitals. And schools. And the police.

They aren't better skilled, just willing to work for less money. That's all that matters to most companies and businesses. Of course, working for less means owing less taxes which means the government collects less per person to pay for stuff like medicaid which is the healthcare program for poor people and their dependents.
Working for less might mean no health care insurance through the employer which feeds the cycle of defaulting on hospital bills which can drive hospitals into bankruptcy.

I say fingerprint 'em all and encode their eyeballs. It's the only way to be sure who's who.

♂

Jun 14, 11, 05:57 #30

ItsAllAboutME:

How about you? Should you pack your stuff and go back to Poland?

I've been here for 20 year and am a citizen. Don't compare my situation to some border hopper. Cat got your tongue with my last reply it's true

PennBoy:

Mexicans in unions, and yes they do take illegals they're not officially on the payroll but i know 100% that they do. For instance they do the dangerous jobs like spray paint bridges, or work night shifts putting up drywall, or plumbing, build roads. Remember unions are a big mafia, they have a lot of power and can get away with it.

PlasticPole:

They aren't better skilled, just willing to work for less money. That's all that matters to most companies and businesses.

PlasticPole:

Working for less might mean no health care insurance through the employer which feeds the cycle of defaulting on hospital bills which can drive hospitals into bankruptcy.

Glad you see things my way PP

POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Unanswered \| Archives
POLAND . The Unofficial Guide	Travel to Poland	Witamy, Guest \| PF Members \| Gold Members

Home \| Unanswered \| Archives \| Random \| Statistics	Time in Poland: 00:04 / May 27
About Us \| Contact Us \| Rules, Privacy \| Poland Advertising	© 2005-12 PolishForums.com