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If America is so bad, why move here?


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Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58
Posts: 2,314
Joined: Sep 7, 08 ♂ 		 Dec 25, 11, 19:16    #211
southern:
Immigration numbers do not seem to support that

Every country is the best ... but my country is THE BEST for ME! :) ... so I do not need immigration numbers for it.
andersmThreads: 1
Posts: 57
Joined: Nov 24, 11  Pictures: 3 ♀ 		 Dec 25, 11, 19:26    #212
FUZZYWICKETS:
The USA has a hell of a lot more to offer people aside from just money.


True, I lived there and have seen it. The burden every American carries is that the rest of the world sees the USA only one way and, unfortunately, it's an impression Americans themselves have promoted. What America offers the world is not the fact that you're rich, it's the social, political and economic freedom to be what you want to be through personal achievement. You've taken in the poor and dispossessed from throughout the world and took their shackles off. Great things have been accomplished and it has made America wealthy. I'm a big fan of America, but my admiration is for the country it once was, not for the country it is becoming since the banksters have taken over. It is not the corporations that have ruined America, a corporation is merely one way of structuring a business, it is the fluid movement of top level people between government and the financial industry. The regulation of the financial industry is weak because the Treasury Department and the executives of Goldman Sachs are one and the same people.
Snowden  Dec 25, 11, 19:27    #213
Just for some qualifiers, since some of you folks don't seem to take a person seriously unless they have some kind of Polish street cred, I'm a first-generation American who is fluent in Polish and travels internationally on a regular basis. I have always been equally proud of both my nationality and cultural heritage and feel that I have had the best of both worlds in being brought up this way.

That said, I find all the backbiting between nations on this forum really depressing. I find myself brought here on occasion by various Google searches, and every time it only takes one or two posts for something disrespectful or crass about the States to appear. I don't like to spend too much time on this forum due to all the overt, unnecessarily rude comments about Americans, first-generation or otherwise.

This forum does have its fair share of intelligent discourse (really, most of it is this way), but I find it embarrassing that quite a few of you allow yourselves to view either Poland or the United States through the lens of simple stereotypes. So many conversations that start out in a promising way end up deteriorating into stupid, jingoistic name-calling. It is possible to have intelligent and courteous debate about the merits and faults of a nation's politics, culture and people. The trolls among you should take note.
Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58
Posts: 2,314
Joined: Sep 7, 08 ♂ 		 Dec 25, 11, 20:39    #214
I've rarely seen a USA person to be able to take critism or disinterest in them or their country in a normal manner. It seems its always "Either you are with me or against me" for them. This is unfortunate and sign of a very violent inner nature which suffocates the TRUE FREEDOM of everyone and propogates its own form of freedom where whatever it does, whatever it may be like ... people must obey to its ways, its perspectives, its values and ideals, its dictatorship around the world and their own affairs. Everyone must say "Ohhhh wow!!!!.... UsAaAaaAa.... my dReAm.... OhHhHh how I wanna be there OhHhHh.... Hail Hail Hail!!!" ... only then you are a GOOD MAN. But hey...beware lest you say "doh whatever ... not interested ... US or what?... whatever.... fine come like any other tourist and HEY??? What do you mean why if you are so bad why come???... We're not interested in your good or bad as long as you keep your arrogant nature in a distance, and no! Most of us are not interested to MOVE to your place"

Be happy and remember, every nation respects themselves ... and dont make a fool of yourself thinking that we are dying to come to you. Yes, there are poors and who dont see anything for them unless they move into the USA labor market .... but remove that and USA is nothing interesting for anyone in this world.

To be free a person must be ready internally, being in USA doesnt give it. Freedom is bigger than your country where you are yourself fighting for it everyday and getting beaten up on streets just for protesting (which ironically doesnt get aired...iron curtain?)...

Anyways ... still I would respect all those good people who live in USA and know which word to use where .... surely they are not ignorant and arrogant, and feel ashamed of those who display it (like in this thread, and the usa ppl posting here).

Another thing...STOP calling yourself "America" ... America is bigger than USA ... are you ashamed to take your countries name that you have to bring in a continent to identify yourself?....

Poles always called their country Poland first and then a part of Europe ... not the other way round.
scottie1113Threads: 11
Posts: 873
Joined: Mar 13, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 25, 11, 21:27    #215
Lodz_The_Boat:
I've rarely seen a USA person to be able to take critism or disinterest in them or their country in a normal manner.


Really? Visit my classroom sometime or meet my other American friends. The US has faults-every country does-and we talk about them freely and openly.


Lodz_The_Boat:
To be free a person must be ready internally, being in USA doesnt give it.


This is pure poppycock. It's not worth discussing.


Lodz_The_Boat:
Another thing...STOP calling yourself "America"


Why? The country is the United States of America, so we call ourselves Americans. We're well aware that there are other countries in North, Central and South America. If they call themselves Canadians or Mexicans, they're also North Americans. The same is true for our brothers and sisters farther to the south.
a.k.  Dec 25, 11, 21:53    #216
scottie1113:
Really? Visit my classroom sometime or meet my other American friends. The US has faults-every country does-and we talk about them freely and openly.


It's more that an outsider is unwelcome to complain and critisize... but it's a norm in every country Poland, Britain, USA - no difference in these terms.
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
Posts: 5,432
Joined: May 28, 09 ♀ 		 Dec 25, 11, 22:32    #217
What are we supposed to call ourselves? Yanks?
rozumiemnicThreads: 4
Posts: 1,023
Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀ 		 Dec 25, 11, 22:53    #218
PlasticPole:
What are we supposed to call ourselves? Yanks?

yankee doodle dandys with sugar sprinkles..?
no really, Americans are Americans, don't listen to him, someone must have rocked his boat....
FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12
Posts: 1,999
Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂ 		 Dec 26, 11, 05:21    #219
Lodz_The_Boat:

Be happy and remember, every nation respects themselves ... and dont make a fool of yourself thinking that we are dying to come to you.


I'm "dying" to stop hearing all this horse$hit.

You hate the USA, we get it.
Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58
Posts: 2,314
Joined: Sep 7, 08 ♂ 		 Dec 26, 11, 07:22    #220
FUZZYWICKETS:
You hate the USA, we get it.

I don't. But alas your dictionary seem to be confined to this: "You are either with us, or against us".
Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57
Posts: 5,478
Joined: Jul 3, 09  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		 Dec 26, 11, 18:18    #221
FUZZYWICKETS:
oddly enough, half this forum is "about America"......so weird. most people on here can't stand the USA.....yet they can't stop talking about it.

The last two sentences of your post actually promote each other - one leads onto the other.

Anyway I think you'll actually find that lately the favourite subject seems to be Russia.
rybnikThreads: 29
Posts: 1,232
Joined: Jan 16, 11  Pictures: 4 ♂ 		 Dec 26, 11, 19:37    #222
Lodz_The_Boat:
I don't. But alas your dictionary seem to be confined to this: "You are either with us, or against us".

I Honestly couldn't care less - love us, hate us, it's all the same to me and most Americans ;)
Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57
Posts: 5,478
Joined: Jul 3, 09  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		Edited by: Wroclaw Boy  Dec 26, 11, 19:49    #223
At any Airport (not in America) no matter which one you're at as long as its international theres always some loud mouthed friggen yank, deliberately talking loud as if he wants everyone and their dog to know "I'm from the USA" you can hear them a mile away.

Its like ohh for fcuk sake there's another one. I dont hear any other countries national's doing this...... We are all polite and normal. South Africans, Ozzies, Germans, Brits, French etc etc, but the yanks love shouting their fcuking mouths off at airports.

If you start talking to them its LA this and California that and OHH New York, you just feel like telling them to shut the fcuk up.
peterwegThreads: 35
Posts: 1,997
Joined: Feb 16, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 26, 11, 20:46    #224
FUZZYWICKETS:

I'm "dying" to stop hearing all this horse$hit.

You hate the USA, we get it.


You can't understand why people think the USA is a **** hole, get over it.
Wroclaw BoyThreads: 57
Posts: 5,478
Joined: Jul 3, 09  Pictures: 2  Gold Member MEMBER ♂ 		Edited by: Wroclaw Boy  Dec 26, 11, 21:07    #225
peterweg:
You can't understand why people think the USA is a **** hole, get over it.

do you actually have any reasons Weg, or are you just going to jump in with your usual little dig and then never be seen on the thread again? Kind of like a big street fight and then weg jumps in and taps a guy in the head then goes running off telling everybody how he punched some guy......
FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12
Posts: 1,999
Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂ 		 Dec 27, 11, 04:33    #226
peterweg:
You can't understand why people think the USA is a **** hole, get over it.


If someone said that Poland was a $hithole, would you understand?
PlasticPoleThreads: 10
Posts: 5,432
Joined: May 28, 09 ♀ 		 Dec 27, 11, 08:17    #227
If you don't like America or Americans and believe it to be inferior to your tastes simply stay away from here.
Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58
Posts: 2,314
Joined: Sep 7, 08 ♂ 		 Dec 27, 11, 08:44    #228
PlasticPole:
simply stay away from here.

No one is going to USA from here plasticpole. Ironically you are in Polish forums instead. :)

We are warm and respectable enough to listen to you, but we do maintain our right to clarify your misconceptions. Plus, I never saw a thread by Poles saying similar things to USA people. We never have been this arrogant, maybe its just not a part of us.
scottie1113Threads: 11
Posts: 873
Joined: Mar 13, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 27, 11, 09:09    #229
Lodz_The_Boat:
No one is going to USA from here


Right. I'm sure everybody believes this happy horsesh*t.
rozumiemnicThreads: 4
Posts: 1,023
Joined: Nov 16, 09 ♀ 		Edited by: rozumiemnic  Dec 27, 11, 10:26    #230
Wroclaw Boy:
We are all polite and normal. South Africans, Ozzies, Germans, Brits, French etc etc, but the yanks love shouting their fcuking mouths off at airports.

that is true, they talk so loud and so opinionated, I had to tell a bunch of em to shut the uck up on the train to Brighton not long ago, they were shouting their heads off all about what was wrong with British society. One of them then screeched at me 'it's a free country ladeeeeeeeeee'...you couldn't make it up, could you?
Then again, are these arrogant gobshytes we hear in Europe really representative of the American people?
I like to think not.

"No one is going to USA from here plasticpole". That is quite a dumb thing to say, exactly how many millions do you claim to represent? Obviously people are going to America, always have, always will.
peterwegThreads: 35
Posts: 1,997
Joined: Feb 16, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 27, 11, 11:43    #231
Wroclaw Boy:
do you actually have any reasons Weg, or are you just going to jump in with your usual little dig and then never be seen on the thread again?


I answer if I can be bothered, this argument has been done many times before and there isn't much more to be said.

FUZZYWICKETS:
If someone said that Poland was a $hithole, would you understand?


Yes. In many ways it is, but that's because it was dirt poor, a situation that is changing dramatically for the better. Something that cannot be said for the US, its only way is down. It will get very ugly there.

rozumiemnic:

"No one is going to USA from here plasticpole". That is quite a dumb thing to say, exactly how many millions do you claim to represent? Obviously people are going to America, always have, always will.


About 8000 Poles emigrated to the US in 1996. there were about 70k Polish illegals in 1996.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0201398.html
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/imm_imm_to_the_uni_sta_ori_yea-immig ration-united-states-origin-year

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/illegal.pdf

For F***'s sake. More Poles emigrated to the UK in 5 years than emigrated to the US in the last 150 years.

I think you will find that more Poles emigrate to every individual country in the EU than the US in any given year.
FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12
Posts: 1,999
Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: FUZZYWICKETS  Dec 27, 11, 11:54    #232
Lodz_The_Boat:
Plus, I never saw a thread by Poles saying similar things to USA people.


oh that's genius. you've never seen a thread, "If Poland is so bad, why move here?". hahahaha. yes. yes, as a matter of fact,
i'd put money on it that you've never seen anything like that.

peterweg:
Yes. In many ways it is (a $hithole), but that's because it was dirt poor, a situation that is changing dramatically for the better. Something that cannot be said for the US, its only way is down. It will get very ugly there.


This comment speaks volumes about not only peterweg but so many other posters.
peterwegThreads: 35
Posts: 1,997
Joined: Feb 16, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 27, 11, 12:04    #233
FUZZYWICKETS:
This comment speaks volumes about not only peterweg but so many other posters.



Accurate, reality-based commentators, yes. I think you will find many of your countrymen would agree with us.

The facts speak for themselves, Poles don't want to move to the US as its unappealing. Those that do probably move there to be with family as much as anything - if they want work they move around Europe.
scottie1113Threads: 11
Posts: 873
Joined: Mar 13, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 27, 11, 12:09    #234
peterweg:
I think you will find that more Poles emigrate to every individual country in the EU than the US in any given year.


Probably true. Could that be attributed to the necessity of getting a visa to go go to the US?
peterwegThreads: 35
Posts: 1,997
Joined: Feb 16, 07 ♂ 		 Dec 27, 11, 12:23    #235
scottie1113:
Probably true. Could that be attributed to the necessity of getting a visa to go go to the US?



A visa is needed to visit on holiday, we are talking about going to live and work.

  • Country of Stay Number of emigrants (in thousands)
  • Year 2002** 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008
  • TOTAL 786 1,000 1,450 1,950 2,270 2,210
  • Europe 461 770 1,200 1,610 1,925 1,887 of which:
  • European Union 451 750 1,170 1,550 1,860 1,820 (27 countries)*** of which:
  • Austria 11 15 25 34 39 40
  • Belgium 14 13 21 28 31 33
  • Cyprus - - - - 4 4
  • Denmark - - - - 17 19
  • Finland 0.3 0.4 0.7 3 4 4
  • France 21 30 44 49 55 56
  • Greece 10 13 17 20 20 20
  • Spain 14 26 37 44 80 83
  • Ireland 2 15 76 120 200 180
  • Netherlands 10 23 43 55 98 108
  • Germany 294 385 430 450 490 490
  • Portugal 0.3 0.5 0.6 1 1 1
  • Czech Republic - - - - 8 10
  • Sweden 6 11 17 25 27 29
  • United Kingdom 24 150 340 580 690 650
  • Italy 39 59 70 85 87 88
  • Countries outside the European Union 10 20 30 60 65 67 of which:
  • Norway - - - - 36 38


http://www.migrationinformation.org/Feature/display.cfm?ID=800
Table 4


So the US is up there with Czech Republic and some what less than say, UK, Ireland or Germany
FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12
Posts: 1,999
Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂ 		Edited by: FUZZYWICKETS  Dec 27, 11, 14:34    #236
peterweg:
Accurate, reality-based commentators, yes. I think you will find many of your countrymen would agree with us.


huh?
PennBoyThreads: 157
Posts: 3,443
Joined: Dec 7, 08  Pictures: 2 ♂ 		 Feb 4, 12, 14:20    #237
ceper:
Trust me I get it, the industry collapsed etc., political correctness aside how’s that different than Stalowa Wola or any other place with big state owned enterprise no longer in business in Poland? I’ll tell you how, nowhere near the ruin and disrepair it seems to be in US or any other **** hole in the US where big privet industry no longer is in business in and moved its operations elsewhere. When you bring up an example at least be honest about your own situation which in my opinion is at least twice as bad as the worst place in Poland you can think of and don’t blame it on the blacks either, I thought officially at least you don’t have segregation since the civil right moment of the 60”s.

Detroit, current status: 'Detroit has closed schools and laid off police in an effort to avoid a bankruptcy filing this year. Home prices are down 54% the past three years, worst in the U.S. The median price was $38,000 last year in the Detroit-Livonia-Dearborn metro division.' http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/americas-most-miserable-cities-2012. html

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