Arizona's new immigration law. Thoughts on this?

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May 18, 10, 09:19 #31

skysoulmate:

No, there's no such law. In fact there's no law on using English either. There should be.

the law says that any language is equal.. as in the gov has to provide interpreter or paperwork in any requested language.

skysoulmate:

They'd fight it in courts and yes some violence would occur but the military would stay away from interfering in the peoples' majority decision.

i don't think so.. there is no seceding from the union.. EVER.

skysoulmate:

So what's your solution? Thousands are coming every day despite them "working on that" (which they aren't, they're just masking the problem)

upholding the laws that are on the books.. the best and easiest way to cut this in the bud is to go after employers who hire illegals with a heavy hand.. that would eliminate the issue in short order.

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May 18, 10, 19:11 #32

Whether an average American wants to admit it or not the problem is of your own making. The last time US dealt with this issue back in 86 there were the so called safe guards built in to the system to control illegal immigration yet ignored by feds, capitalists, liberals and society as a whole alike. During this time Londonization effect as you put it already took place effectively creating a society within a society. But it’s not just a Latino issue, is it? It effects many other nationalities as well. With the introduction of bilingual education system happily adopted by all, you compounded this problem. Where was the voice of discontent back then to keep the liberals in check?, even Latino parents were rejecting this idea. Indeed, each side is to blame, very much so. The legacy of one line slogan of Bush era leaves no wiggle room, it’s all black and white, us versus them mentality creating further rift forcing everyone to pick a side.

The issue is not who’s to blame for this mess but simply acknowledge the fact that it’s time to resolve it. With the economic crunch as it is now, the time is ripe for the hawks to gain much greater support then they would have otherwise, and who’s to blame them for that? They see their chance so they take it. The danger in all of this is that the politicians have no clue as to what to do about it, no plan whatsoever and not willing to talk about it publicly to calm the tensions down or at least creating the illusion that something is being done about it giving everyone a much needed room to breath without further escalation of tensions, too much of a political risk. Instead they are biding their time figuring out how to appease everyone effectively leaving them impotent to do anything, dwelling on how they themselves might benefit from this and advance their career in the process.

Meanwhile these laws passed on a local leval are undermining the feds authority, the rhetoric is hyped-up by the likes of Palin happy to be in the spotlight, rattling the patriotic saber so to speak gathering new converts for the defense of Alamo. Soon neither politicians nor citizens will have any other choice but to pick a side. In the end, it’s the image of America that will suffer as a result making it much harder to persuade anyone to your cause in the future geopolitical chess games. With the suspension of civil liberties, Gitmo and the likes you have already lost the moral ground and with an image of brutally quelling down social unrest viewed by the outside world as human rights issues, you won’t even have a pot to **** in. Tiananmen square, anyone?

Just a clarification for you Pinching Pete and others who might be confused by my remarks, whenever you hear a typical American slogan like "refuge" "freedom’" "oppressed" you should read it as sarcasm at best if not a slap on the face. No wonder you can’t pick up on subtlety, being dumb down by a decade of one line slogans and all, taking all that you read at face value. Of course having no vested interest in it myself I don’t really give a sh*t, just giving you my perspective, how you want to play this is up to every individual American to decide.

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May 18, 10, 19:22 #33

there is no illegal emigrations problem the problem is illegal employment problem
if U.S. gov. would enforce the laws they would not be in this problem
the illegal emigrants are used to drive wages down so corporations can make more money
if you just fined big business for employing the illegal's they will stop and the illegal's will go home
but no one is enforcing current laws
so Arizona can pass the Nazi laws but it will not solved the problem
the native Americans should pass law like this and start asking for papers

f stopThreads: 33 Posts: 2,861 Joined: Dec 9, 09 ♀	May 18, 10, 19:43 #34
Marek11111: there is no illegal emigrations problem of course, there is an illegal emmigration problem! There are social programs, education etc getting strained as well. Plus, there are other ways to make money, aside from working for 'corporations'. Actually, I think the ones working for 'corporations' are least of our problems.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	May 19, 10, 00:34 #35
Arizona just wants the law to encourage illegal immigrants to leave their state so they don't have to keep paying to educate, shelter, and medicate them. These immigrants are bankrupting that state, as well as California and Texas.

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May 19, 10, 03:47 #36

ShortHairThug:

Tiananmen square, anyone?

Kent State anyone?

well written thug. *thumbsup*

Marek11111:

Marek11111

BINGO!!!

PlasticPole:

Arizona just wants the law to encourage illegal immigrants to leave their state so they don't have to keep paying to educate, shelter, and medicate them. These immigrants are bankrupting that state, as well as California and Texas.

just a smoke screen and blame game.. those states are sucking it up because of their politicians being irresponsible.

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May 19, 10, 04:29 #37

Marek11111:

there is no illegal emigrations problem the problem is illegal employment problem
if U.S. gov. would enforce the laws they would not be in this problem
the illegal emigrants are used to drive wages down so corporations can make more money
if you just fined big business for employing the illegal's they will stop and the illegal's will go home
but no one is enforcing current laws

Total agreement!

Marek11111:

so Arizona can pass the Nazi laws but it will not solved the problem
the native Americans should pass law like this and start asking for papers

And then you fell apart... Lets see if I have this correct. The evil federal government caused this by not enforcing the law, Then the evil state government are nazis for enforcing the law. Wow! I've only seen one other person with this diachotomy of thought and she was a communist who fled after the break-up of the USSR. nice!!

Growing up next to a reservation and living. going to school, working, and even dating native americans, I don't think you know sh*t about them. Just another Alinski sh*t stirrer.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	May 19, 10, 04:39 #38
Tymoteusz: Then the evil state government are nazis for enforcing the law. no, they are nazis for the way this law is written and the way they want to enforce this law. besides, i am not sure if a state copper can even ask for federal documents.. we'll see in the near future, for sure.. i still don't think this law will stand.

TymoteuszThreads: 7 Posts: 694 Joined: Jul 25, 09 ♂	Edited by: Tymoteusz May 19, 10, 05:11 #39
The law. Just to make sure we all know what we are talking about. http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

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May 19, 10, 05:34 #40

Miguel Colombia:

As a south american ,I find it good. I don´t like illegal immigrants (mostly Mexicans that cross the border) refusing to integrate, work or do something productive for the American society, so it´s good the ILLEGALS will be hunted and ultimately deported.

I'm also familiar with South America. I remember the times when colombians were trying hard to cross over to Venezuela illegally because the income was higher.
During the same years, there was almost no enforcement of any law neither in Venezuela or in the U.S.
President Ronald R. was the one who saw an opportunity and took it. By legalizing immigrants with his amnesty.

Here is where you are wrong...
The very reason why there is illegal immigration in the U.S. is because they are coming to WORK. They can't not integrate because of laws like the one in Arizona or the one in California and Texas where they can not have any form of I.D. You and I know that without an I.D. YOU CAN NOT INTEGRATE anywhere.

They don't do anything for the american society? Who do you think is building all the homes? or cleaning all the streets? and doing the jobs that americans don't want to do?

Get your facts right before you step on your own tail.
As a latino immigrant you are disgracing yourself by proclaiming a witch-hunting rally agains your own people.

And before you start with the same old s... about "people should come to the U.S. legally", let me tell you something.
I have close relatives that have been waiting "in line" 15 and 20 years just to receive their green cards. Even when their applications were already approved by INS. Why? because the only reason of being from Mexico an from China.
My wife just received her green card last year, when her petition was approved in the year 1994.
How the hell do you expect them to get legal or to come legally when they have to wait that long for a green card?

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May 19, 10, 05:57 #41

They don't do anything for the american society? Who do you think is building all the homes? or cleaning all the streets? and doing the jobs that americans don't want to do?

Americans are hard working people and are willing to do anything, but they won't work for nothing. Illegal immigrants are here for cheap labor, the Corporations want to lower the wages of the American working man and woman. It's 21st century slavery, plain and simple.

Pinching PeteThreads: 1 Posts: 1,111 Joined: Feb 23, 08 ♂	May 19, 10, 06:16 #42
Chicago Pollock: Illegal immigrants are here for cheap labor, the Corporations want to lower the wages of the American working man and woman. It's 21st century slavery, plain and simple. Exactly.. that is the crux of it pure and simple. Corporations love immigration because they get a slave class.

shewolfThreads: 5 Posts: 1,835 Joined: Dec 23, 06 ♀	May 19, 10, 06:18 #43
Have you seen the movie A Day Without A Mexican?

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May 19, 10, 06:25 #44

shewolf

Have you seen the movie A Day Without A Mexican?

What did this country do before massive illegal Mexican immigration?

You know what the corporations would have to do? Raise wages. Simple.

When they closed down a chicken factory in Georgia the Blacks who were sent in to replace the illegals couldn't believe the working conditions. They said the Mexicans do what they're told.

American labor cannot compete with people willing to live in man camps and send their money back to Mexico. I can't do that, my home is here.

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May 19, 10, 06:48 #45

Spaceman77:

How the hell do you expect them to get legal or to come legally when they have to wait that long for a green card?

i expect them not to come and respect US laws but that obviously hasn't worked at all..

Spaceman77:

and doing the jobs that americans don't want to do?

who said americans don't want to do "these" jobs? whatever "these" jobs really are..

Chicago Pollock:

the Corporations want to lower the wages of the American working man and woman. It's 21st century slavery, plain and simple.

bingo!!!!

Chicago Pollock:

What did this country do before massive illegal Mexican immigration?

why Mexicans??? a lot of illegals are NOT from mexico.

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May 19, 10, 09:50 #46

plk123:

i expect them not to come and respect US laws

And you expect them not to come? How about all other immigrants? How about the ones that came here during WWII? or the ones before that?
They never had to deal with any immigration paperwork? Are they any different now because they are mostly latinos?
The U.S. is a nation founded and based on immigrants. If you want to see a truly american native, you would have to go to Montana. There look for any indian reservation and you will see a true american. All the rest of them are immigrants. Even if they don't want to admit it.

This is part of what is written on the statue of liberty:
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door"

That of course if written for everyone to see. not just the one that enter (illegally) to America 100 years ago.

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May 19, 10, 10:30 #47

Spaceman77:

That of course if written for everyone to see. not just the one that enter (illegally) to America 100 years ago.

remember that that was written by the french not americans..

enter illegally a 100 years ago? how's that?

Spaceman77:

And you expect them not to come? How about all other immigrants? How about the ones that came here during WWII? or the ones before that?
They never had to deal with any immigration paperwork? Are they any different now because they are mostly latinos?

back then usa was largely uninhabited thus there was no need for controls.. things have changed since and thus today's laws reflect that.. it has nothing to do with whether the immigrants are latino or polish.. same rules apply to all.

urszulaThreads: 2 Posts: 362 Joined: Aug 31, 07 ♀	May 19, 10, 10:36 #48
Being illegaly in the US is a crime, I hope all other states will follow soon.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,432 Joined: May 28, 09 ♀	May 19, 10, 23:07 #49
plk123: those states are sucking it up because of their politicians being irresponsible. It does work when the states pass such laws because it makes the illegals leave the state passing the law in droves, then the state doesn't have as big a budget to maintain. Most illegals are poor and qualify for all sorts of services at taxpayer's expense.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	May 20, 10, 05:53 #50
^^ that's just ignorant.. keep listening to glen or rush.. good luck with that.

richasisThreads: 5 Posts: 833 Joined: Jul 25, 09 ♂	May 20, 10, 06:30 #51
http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438021/index.html

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Edited by: skysoulmate May 20, 10, 09:19 #52

Spaceman77:

And you expect them not to come? How about all other immigrants? How about the ones that came here during WWII? or the ones before that?
They never had to deal with any immigration paperwork? Are they any different now because they are mostly latinos?
The U.S. is a nation founded and based on immigrants. If you want to see a truly american native, you would have to go to Montana. There look for any indian reservation and you will see a true american. All the rest of them are immigrants. Even if they don't want to admit it.

Every heard of Ellis Island? This was one of gateways for LEGAL aliens coming to America. At the time the US wanted many immigrants and invited many people from Europe but also Asia (China primarily) because there was a shortage of workers. Even with the basic ways of record keeping they still knew who'd arrived, what country they came from, etc. Today we have no idea who comes here. Right now on top of the legal immigration, which is still going on as it should, we have an illegal immigration wave flooding this country. Totally uncontrolled.

Many of you are trying to portray this new law as some kind of racist law, a democratic politician compared it to the Chinese repression. That's just crazy! This law simply reinforces a very old and still current immigration law which asks everyone with a green card to have it on him/her. That's it. For generations no one cared about that regulation so they brushed it off but it's the very same rule I was told about when I had a green card a while back. Carry it on you at all times. The very same rule exists in Sweden and I bet you in most European countries. Probably everywhere else too.

Had we treated our illegal aliens from Mexico the way they treat their own illegal aliens from the sounth of their border we wouldn't have many illegal aliens at all.

Media ignore Mexican gov't brutality of Central American immigrants

Also, we talk often about Mexicans simply because they're a majority of all illegal aliens. This is a few years old but we've gotten even more illegal aliens since then.

"Tuesday's report by the Pew Hispanic Center said Mexicans make up 56 percent of illegal immigrants. An additional 22 percent come from other Latin American countries, mainly in Central America. About 13 percent are from Asia, and Europe and Canada combine for 6 percent."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8G6U2ko8

PS. THe ancestors of the "Indians" crossed over the Bering Strait hundreds of years earlier so one could say they're Asians and not real America natives... ;)

I hope Arizona follows up on the reverse-racist Californian boycott of Arizona with a boycott of electricity sales to the city of L.A. I'd love to see that!!!

No offense to beckski, pgtx (i think?) and other PF cali-folks - this would make your insane politicians eat up their own words...

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07 ♂	Edited by: plk123 May 20, 10, 09:54 #53
skysoulmate: pgtx (i think?) tx is there for a reason buddy. lol besides immigration is a federal matter not a state matter. this is another reason this will fall apart soon enough. and like i said before, why are we going after the poor suckers and not the ones that employ them? wouldn't it be easier and also the surer way of solving this issue?

STFUThreads: - Posts: 122 Joined: May 13, 10 ♂	May 20, 10, 10:12 #54
plk123: and like i said before, why are we going after the poor suckers and not the ones that employ them? wouldn't it be easier and also the surer way of solving this issue? Yup, it sure would. :)

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,054 Joined: May 26, 08 ♂	May 20, 10, 12:47 #55
plk123: besides immigration is a federal matter not a state matter. The issue is not that clear cut. The Supreme Court ruled in 1975, in DeCanas v. Bica, that federal law does not necessarily supersede all state laws dealing with immigration.

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May 20, 10, 15:04 #56

skysoulmate:

This law simply reinforces a very old and still current immigration law which asks everyone with a green card to have it on him/her. That's it

What happens when I tell you that I am a US citizen and to leave me the f*ck alone because I didn't do anything?

Throw the employers in jail, leave the citizens alone. It's the employers responsibility to perform due diligence before hiring someone. They'd probably be better off with their businesses over the border anyway. With NAFTA, there is no excuse at all to hire an illegal immigrant in the US to perform manufacturing work.

MEMBER ♀

May 20, 10, 17:38 #57

skysoulmate:

This law simply reinforces a very old and still current immigration law which asks everyone with a green card to have it on him/her. That's it. For generations no one cared about that regulation so they brushed it off but it's the very same rule I was told about when I had a green card a while back. Carry it on you at all times.

that's advised by every immigration office i've talked to...

skysoulmate:

pgtx (i think?)

Texas

richasisThreads: 5 Posts: 833 Joined: Jul 25, 09 ♂	Edited by: richasis May 20, 10, 22:39 #58
Ah, for all those who wholly welcome this 'open-border policy', a picture is sometimes worth a thousand words: http://www.bettorschat.com/forums/rants-politics-religion/184113-az-so noran-desert-outside-tucson-az.html

Marek11111Threads: 49 Posts: 1,955 Joined: Aug 6, 09 ♂	May 21, 10, 00:20 #59
and for those who wants and support Arizona emigration law picture is sometimes worth a thousand words: http://www.qualityinformationpublishers.com/naziconcentrationcamppictu res.aspx

convexThreads: 46 Posts: 7,185 Joined: Nov 25, 09 ♂	May 21, 10, 00:29 #60
Marek11111: and for those who wants and support Arizona emigration law picture is sometimes worth a thousand words: Yea, because deporting people who have broken the law is exactly like gassing people to death. Thanks for that insightful connection.

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