Canada Increasingly a Gateway for Undocumented Polish Immigrants Entering the U.S.

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Dec 8, 10, 06:35 #1
http://news.feetintwoworlds.org/2010/07/27/canada-increasingly-a-gatew ay-for-undocumented-polish-immigrants-entering-the-u-s/ "The rise in illegal entries from Canada can be traced back to March 2008 when Canada lifted visa requirements for travelers from Poland. Some see it as an opportunity to try to work their way into the U.S. yet one more time."

Chicago PollockThreads: 10 Posts: 638 Joined: Apr 10, 10 ♂	Dec 8, 10, 06:53 #2
Methinks it would be easier to cross through the Western States, Mn, ND, Mt.

guesswhoThreads: 23 Posts: 3,326 Joined: Mar 17, 10 ♀	Edited by: guesswho Dec 8, 10, 07:08 #3
Chicago Pollock: Methinks it would be easier to cross through the Western States, Mn, ND, Mt. I probably wouldn't pay attention to this article but I saw comments on PF that USA is no more attractive for Poles to go to and why would any Pole want to go to the US if he can legally work in UK etc. Another question is, why not just legally stay in Canada instead to choose to be illegal here?

♂

Edited by: FUZZYWICKETS Dec 8, 10, 07:18 #4

someone's gotta say it, it might as well be me.....

for all of those b!tchin' about how poland STILL isn't part of the VWP, here's evidence as to why. also, keep in mind, this article discusses just one state when there are several along the USA/Canada border.

i constantly read:

"America's just not as attractive as it used to be, there wouldn't be a problem"

"We'd rather go to the UK anyhow, it's closer and in the EU"

"We help out the USA with their war(s), we should get VWP privileges"

"I WANT to go to the USA for vacation but they STILL won't let me, it's BS!"

Well, yeah, if you're a law abiding citizen with good intentions and your visa application gets refused, sure, tough luck....just don't complain that the process still exists when you KNOW the facts.

Marek11111Threads: 49 Posts: 1,955 Joined: Aug 6, 09 ♂	Dec 8, 10, 07:28 #5
maybe they can build fence on northern border, no one in and no one out.

stallionThreads: 4 Posts: 28 Joined: Nov 25, 10 ♂	Dec 8, 10, 08:50 #6
Ohh Please... There is more Polaks leaving than coming these days (legal or illegal). Landloards used to make a killing on the polish (working) "tourists".

FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12 Posts: 1,999 Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂	Dec 8, 10, 10:29 #7
guesswho wrote: "USA is no more attractive for Poles to go to" "why would any Pole want to go to the US if he can legally work in UK etc." well, that didn't take long.

stallionThreads: 4 Posts: 28 Joined: Nov 25, 10 ♂	Edited by: stallion Dec 8, 10, 10:37 #8
... and besides, if the US did not sell us out to the commies after WW2 there would be no need for anybody to come here(USA) for economic reasons. I think the treachery of soviet domination imposed on Poland in collusion with the US is worse than anything any Polish immigrant has done to the US by “sneaking” across its northern border.

peterwegThreads: 35 Posts: 1,997 Joined: Feb 16, 07 ♂	Dec 8, 10, 10:48 #9
Why would Poles want to go to the US for work? Low minimum wage, high unemployment and difficult to get there and work legally. I've never met anyone in Poland who wants to got to the US to work (except a woman who was offered university position). Somebody (not American) explain.

♂

Edited by: FUZZYWICKETS Dec 8, 10, 10:57 #10

stallion wrote:

... and besides, if the US did not sell us out to the commies after WW2 there would be no need for anybody to come here(USA) for economic reasons.

I think the treachery of soviet domination imposed on Poland in collusion with the US is worse than anything any Polish immigrant has done to the US by “sneaking” across its northern border.

WAAAAAAAHHHH WAAAAAHHH WUH WUH WWWWAAAAHHHH!!!!!!

what a ridiculous thing to say. but don't let me stop you. go ahead, keep on whining and crying about your nation's history alongside your fellow countrymen every chance you get and continue to insist that America somehow owes you something. this last comment you made stallion is such an obvious and desperate attempt to drag yet another thread into your own private agendas. this one being, "woe is me" because I was born in Poland.

it's the same old attitude that slows your country down.

peterweg wrote:

I've never met anyone in Poland who wants to got to the US to work

we obviously live in different countries.

MEMBER ♂

Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Dec 8, 10, 10:59 #11

guesswho:

I saw comments on PF that USA is no more attractive for Poles to go to and why would any Pole want to go to the US if he can legally work in UK etc. Another question is, why not just legally stay in Canada instead to choose to be illegal here?

The answers are all in the article which you just posted:

were previously deported from the U.S
still have family and friends on the American side
others have property and belongings left behind after they were deported
Most of those who decide to cross from Canada have been denied a U.S. visa

Jarek previously lived in the U.S. for several years after overstaying his visa. All that time he kept sending money to his wife and children who stayed in Poland. “Back then, even though I was undocumented, I had a very good job in construction.

FUZZYWICKETS:

I also assume that you have never met any of the umpteen gazillion poles that have gone to america to work illegally or still work and live there illegally and still haven't come back.

Ive heard of a few only around 4% of what travel to the usual Euro countries.

I expect you heard more as youre an American, when you meet somebody Polish there not going to tell you about there friends wife's cousin who went to the UK - right?

FUZZYWICKETSThreads: 12 Posts: 1,999 Joined: Nov 3, 09 ♂	Dec 8, 10, 11:15 #12
Wroclaw Boy wrote: I expect you heard more as youre an American, when you meet somebody Polish there not going to tell you about there friends wife's cousin who went to the UK - right? whether they tell me that or not, it doesn't change the fact that they know people who went to america and live and work there illegally. that's what we're discussing and that's what people tend to deny.

♂

Dec 8, 10, 14:16 #13

FUZZYWICKETS:

whether they tell me that or not, it doesn't change the fact that they know people who went to america and live and work there illegally. that's what we're discussing and that's what people tend to deny.

I DON'T KNOW what are you discussing, I know that you have 11M illegal immigrants from the south and you are doing (as a country) nothing about it, yet at the same time you are bi'tching about few Poles which stayed in U.S. illegally!
That is the action of a moron - you worry about dripping battery in the kitchen while ignoring a flood !

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07 ♂	Dec 8, 10, 15:07 #14
Well, there is said to be many Poles in the northern states of America. It is relatively easy to slip across into the US. However, I don't think many Poles believe in the American Dream that much anymore although the romantic idealists will still be taken in by it.

pgtxThreads: 49 Posts: 6,327 Joined: Feb 14, 09 MEMBER ♀	Dec 8, 10, 15:13 #15
peterweg: Why would Poles want to go to the US people think that it's heaven here... but they don't think that you need any paper work in heaven... ;)

ShortHairThugThreads: - Posts: 1,377 Joined: May 1, 09 ♂	Dec 8, 10, 15:25 #16
guesswho: Some see it as an opportunity to try to work their way into the U.S. yet one more time. You mean all 63 of them? LOL. Indeed, looks like the glory days for the US are over.

♂

Edited by: jwojcie Dec 8, 10, 15:36 #17

As a Pole who don't know anyone illegal in the USA and only a two persons who went to work there but legally it was always a mystery to me from where all those illegals in recent years where (some would say Podkarpackie ;) ). Anyway, I've looked into that article to find some numbers...

Ladies and gentelman
* drum-beats

The growth of illegal crossing is staggering it is almost 200% growth from 2007!!
In nominal values we get from ...
* drum-beats
31 cases in 2007 to ... 50 in first half of this year!!

FUZZYWICKETS run to defend your country from the Polish flood!!

U.S. Customs and Border Patrol statistics obtained by Feet In Two Worlds confirmed that the number of Poles apprehended while crossing the northern border has recently increased. In the first half of this year the Border Patrol stopped 50 Poles along the northern border, most of them in New York, New Hampshire and Vermont. In 2008 there were 63 such cases. For comparison, in 2007, before Canada’s decision to waive visas for Poles, 31 Poles were apprehended, in 2006, the number was 37.

PS. personally I must say that USA can eat those visas and F...O.. I have really no idea why it is an important issue for some Polish politicians. What is more I think we should finally introduce visas for americans as an retaliation. 1000$ for three monts, after all they are all reach, aren't they? I know that we will not do that because of all Polish Americans, but now they can get "Karta Polaka" and come without visa anyway so no problem for them.

PS2. It is not that I'm angry with USA about those visa thing, I'm angry with Polish politicians who make a top issue from that. Who cares really?

ShortHairThugThreads: - Posts: 1,377 Joined: May 1, 09 ♂	Dec 8, 10, 15:52 #18
jwojcie: Who cares really? Like it or not there are many that do, not for the economic reasons but close family ties, yes many of them from Podkarpackie. Americans are just being anal about it, Polish politicians don’t know how to play the game, tit for tat - I’ll say.

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Dec 8, 10, 15:56 #19

jwojcie:

What is more I think we should finally introduce visas for americans as an retaliation.

Poland can't do that.

jwojcie:

FUZZYWICKETS run to defend your country from the Polish flood!!

Wonder what the overstay rate is now. 10 years ago it was pretty high, but I'm guessing now there is no more financial motivation to work illegally in the US. Apparently Poland is on the list for the next round of VWP (they loosened up the criteria).

jwojcieThreads: 3 Posts: 816 Joined: Jan 3, 09 ♂	Edited by: jwojcie Dec 8, 10, 15:59 #20
Yea, well I know this family ties, it is an issue for them and it should be settled but in the same time it is not that many to treat it as something which could be exchanged for some favour from Polish side.. convex: Poland can't do that. Can but don't want to, nothing to gain... It would be childish actually, so yes maybe I overreacted ;)

♂

Edited by: FUZZYWICKETS Dec 8, 10, 16:06 #21

Ironside wrote:

I know that you have 11M illegal immigrants from the south and you are doing (as a country) nothing about it, yet at the same time you are bi'tching about few Poles which stayed in U.S. illegally!

You're now talking about something else. I am not saying that this should require more attention than any other matter, I'm simply saying that there are many Poles living in America illegally and it's a big reason for why Poland is not part of the VWP. That's it.

jwojcie wrote:

The growth of illegal crossing

first of all, this number is based only on the number of poles that were actually caught.

second, this is one very very small piece of the pie. by FAR, the largest number of illegals entered the USA legally and then simply never returned to Poland. "I want to visit my grandma" and it turns into a 10 year vacation.

jwojcie wrote:

What is more I think we should finally introduce visas for americans as an retaliation.

good luck with that.

convex wrote:

Poland is on the list for the next round of VWP (they loosened up the criteria).

I heard just the opposite. The refusal rate was drastically lowered to 3% recently in order to qualify.

♂

Edited by: ShortHairThug Dec 8, 10, 16:09 #22

convex:

Poland can't do that.

Why not? What's stopping us besides brown nose attitude of our politicians.

convex:

Wonder what the overstay rate is now. 10 years ago it was pretty high

Same since the system keeps them in limbo; many of them have no way to legalize their stay.

jwojcie:

but in the same time it is not that many to treat it as something which could be exchanged for some favour from Polish side..

Agree, it just makes them look like they are bagging for this privilege when overall it’s not a big deal. Same regulation should apply to Americans as well when visiting Poland.

FUZZYWICKETS:

"I want to visit my grandma" and it turns into a 10 year vacation.

Present some statistics my dear boy, not some urban myth that was valid half century ago.

PennBoyThreads: 157 Posts: 3,443 Joined: Dec 7, 08 ♂	Dec 8, 10, 16:09 #23
guesswho: I probably wouldn't pay attention to this article but I saw comments on PF that USA is no more attractive for Poles to go to This is true i hardly see any newcomers from Poland anymore.

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Dec 8, 10, 16:22 #24

ShortHairThug:

Why not? What's stopping us besides brown nose attitude of our politicians.

I guess Poland could, it would have to leave Schengen, but it theoretically could.

ShortHairThug:

Same since the system keeps them in limbo; many of them have no way to legalize their stay.

Just like the Mexicans, why reward criminals? Let them go back to Poland and apply just like everyone else.

FUZZYWICKETS:

I heard just the opposite. The refusal rate was drastically lowered to 3% recently in order to qualify.

My mistake, you're right.

♀

Edited by: guesswho Dec 8, 10, 16:25 #25

peterweg:

Why would Poles want to go to the US for work? Low minimum wage, high unemployment and difficult to get there and work legally.

this is exactly what I've heard so many times on PF and that's why I wonder why they still (obviously) come here. I accidentally came across this article and remembering some of those posts on PF (very similar to yours now) I thought it would be interesting to point it out that what you guys posted over here is not really based on facts.

Seanus:

I don't think many Poles believe in the American Dream that much anymore although the romantic idealists will still be taken in by it.

For whatever reason it may be, you see yourself, "the wave" is still there.

PennBoy:

This is true i hardly see any newcomers from Poland anymore.

I don't say, you're lying but at the same time, I don't see any reason not to believe this article.

FUZZYWICKETS:

"USA is no more attractive for Poles to go to"

"why would any Pole want to go to the US if he can legally work in UK etc."

I was basically quoting other s on PF.

♂

Edited by: ShortHairThug Dec 8, 10, 16:29 #26

convex:

I guess Poland could, it would have to leave Schengen, but it theoretically could.

I disagree, When it comes to visa US is dealing on individual basis, Schengen has nothing to do with that.

convex:

Just like the Mexicans, why reward criminals?

Criminals? Well perhaps from your perspective, many left at the time of transition when the future of Poland was not so clear, settled down, started a family basically started a new life, but if it's criminal throw them in jail. Fine example of American democracy and freedom that would be.

♂

Dec 8, 10, 16:34 #27

ShortHairThug:

I disagree, When it comes to visa US is dealing on individual basis, Schengen has nothing to do with that.

You can disagree, but Schengen members have a common tourist visa policy. Poland can't set it's own visa policy without leaving Schengen.

ShortHairThug:

Criminals? Well perhaps from your perspective, many left at the time of transition when the future of Poland was not so clear, settled down, started a family basically started a new life, but if it's criminal throw them in jail, American democracy and freedom at work.

Sure, they broke the law. Whether you agree with the law or not, they still broke it, ergo, criminals.

♀

Edited by: guesswho Dec 8, 10, 16:40 #28

convex:

Sure, they broke the law. Whether you agree with the law or not, they still broke it, ergo, criminals.

"Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

* Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
* Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
* Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime."

Wroclaw Boy:

The answers are all in the article which you just posted:

I was quoting other posters using those questions.

Ironside:

I DON'T KNOW what are you discussing, I know that you have 11M illegal immigrants from the south and you are doing (as a country) nothing about it, yet at the same time you are bi'tching about few Poles which stayed in U.S. illegally!

Well, you have a point iron but it's not true that we don't do anything about illegals here. You just don't know it not living here. I don't know if they show "Border wars" in Poland. I guess not because you'd know that we actually do a lot against it, it's just still not enough, that's true.
As far as the rest of of your statement, it's true that the amount of illegal Poles in the US isn't comparable with that of the Mexicans but still it's a crime to live here illegally.

♂

Dec 8, 10, 16:48 #29

ShortHairThug wrote:

Criminals? Fine example of American democracy and freedom that would be.

it in fact is a fine example of American justice. break the law, go to jail. why should poles be exempt from that?

ShortHairThug wrote:

Well perhaps from your perspective, many left at the time of transition when the future of Poland was not so clear, settled down, started a family basically started a new life, but if it's criminal throw them in jail.

interesting.....and incredibly self serving criteria. so tell me, if you go to a country to have a better life and you do it illegally, should "the future of my country is unclear" hold up in court?

honestly, put down the White/Red flag you've been so blindly and erratically waving thus far, and think about what you're saying.

♂

Dec 8, 10, 16:52 #30

guesswho:

For whatever reason it may be, you see yourself, "the wave" is still there.

Here we have an example of American illegals in Poland on this very forum. Looks like the wave started indeed in America reaching Poland. Them wetback Yanks.
Residency dilemma - illegal worker affecting my income

convex:

You can disagree, but Schengen members have a common tourist visa policy. Poland can't set it's own visa policy without leaving Schengen.

When it comes to visa US is dealing with each Schengen member on individual basis, argument can be made that since the laws are different for other members verses that of Poland, not only that Poland has the right to do the same but it should .

convex:

Sure, they broke the law. Whether you agree with the law or not, they still broke it, ergo, criminals.

Like I’ve said, let the hunt began, throw them in jail, retaliation guaranteed.

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